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Post by Ward on Jul 10, 2021 14:10:49 GMT -6
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Post by dankin on Jul 10, 2021 15:43:17 GMT -6
The m80 and the V7x are my current go to's. A huge thing missing in this shoot out, is how the rest of the kit sounds coming through the snare mic. Same for toms.
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Post by jmoose on Jul 10, 2021 16:47:58 GMT -6
A huge thing missing in this shoot out, is how the rest of the kit sounds coming through the snare mic. Same for toms. Yah. Hat and cymbal bleed are kind of a thing... Most days I'm reaching for a Sennheiser 441. Love the Josephson E22 if there's one around. I see they didn't include either one. Only skimmed the article. Seems in depth, will check it out later! |
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Post by boostudio on Jul 11, 2021 7:03:33 GMT -6
+1 on the m80 for me also — it easily held the top spot since I first tried it on snare in 2008 or so …
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Post by enlav on Jul 11, 2021 8:53:19 GMT -6
Most days I'm reaching for a Sennheiser 441. Love the Josephson E22 if there's one around. I see they didn't include either one. Only skimmed the article. Seems in depth, will check it out later! I'm rather surprised too that they didn't include the 441 - When I had access to three of them, I loved using one on top and bottom (looking back, I'm not sure if I ever had the bottom mic hot enough to even be perceived... but the combination sounded great when recording).
As for the E22s, I'm guessing it's because they don't stock Josephson mics.
As for the M80's, how do you all like the M81 in comparison? I mean, I hear the difference here, but does it translate any differently with the context of the mix? (Bleed?)
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Post by spindrift on Jul 11, 2021 10:00:39 GMT -6
Only thing about the 441 on top is the positioning is sometimes tricky. I’ve been using the SM57 with a 451EB taped to it. Nice options come mix time.
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Post by enlav on Jul 11, 2021 11:28:28 GMT -6
Only thing about the 441 on top is the positioning is sometimes tricky. I’ve been using the SM57 with a 451EB taped to it. Nice options come mix time. Very true, even just from the size (length). I'll often let the arrangement of a kit dictate what we end up using rather than risk the drummer losing their groove from spacing the kit differently from what they practice and perform on.
All the more reason I should consider looking at the e22s.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 11, 2021 13:22:57 GMT -6
Another problem with this shootout (and most snare mic shootouts) is that all the mics were on the top of the snare with no apparent attempt to optimize placement. I tend to place my KM84 to the side of the shell an inch or so away from the hole and not pointing at it. This gives not only a safe position for the mic,it also allows balancing top and bottom heads with the height of the mic along the side. therefore these shootouts aren't very relevant to me.
It's not just KM84s, either - I used to do the same thing with a 451EB.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 11, 2021 13:36:17 GMT -6
E22’s are so sick. Started using those on Tom’s and that’s when cymbal bleed became a good thing.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 11, 2021 13:37:32 GMT -6
Another problem with this shootout (and most snare mic shootouts) is that all the mics were on the top of the snare with no apparent attempt to optimize placement. I tend to place my KM84 to the side of the shell an inch or so away from the hole and not pointing at it. This gives not only a safe position for the mic,it also allows balancing top and bottom heads with the height of the mic along the side. therefore these shootouts aren't very relevant to me. It's not just KM84s, either - I used to do the same thing with a 451EB. Yeah that’s a huge problem for all mic shoot outs. Placement is so crucial. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 11, 2021 14:55:59 GMT -6
I've been using a Sontronics DM-1S for a while now. Occasionally combined with a 57, though more and more i'm preferring the sound of just the Sontronics. I stumbled upon that one a few years ago after watching a similar snare mic shootout and really dug what I heard. To my ears, it's better than the E22S (which I've found can be REALLY hit-or-miss on snare, and is oddly not very good at hi hat bleed rejection).
This latest shootout in the OP has put the Lauten LS-208 on my radar. I really liked what it was doing quite a bit. I'm also eyeballing a Shure 545...we have an original Unidyne somewhere at the studio but it's pretty beat-up and never really sounded as good as I wanted. The newer one used in the Sweetwater vid was pretty groovy to my ear.
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Post by enlav on Jul 11, 2021 15:39:17 GMT -6
E22’s are so sick. Started using those on Tom’s and that’s when cymbal bleed became a good thing. Quick off-topic question: Use them on anything that makes you smile? (Might be looking for confirmation bias) |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 11, 2021 15:45:03 GMT -6
E22’s are so sick. Started using those on Tom’s and that’s when cymbal bleed became a good thing. Quick off-topic question: Use them on anything that makes you smile? (Might be looking for confirmation bias) Ive only tried on Tom’s but could easily see how they be great on snare. I’ve heard from some respected friends that they’re great on OH’s and acoustic guitar too. |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 11, 2021 20:51:21 GMT -6
And often overlooked is the off axis response especially when it comes to the quality (or lack thereof) of the hi hat bleed into the snare mic.
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Post by jmoose on Jul 11, 2021 22:43:01 GMT -6
I've actually never put the e22 on toms. Don't own any & seems when I get to a shop that does have them I've got a drummer with a lotta toms and only a pair of e22.
I've got this thing about trying to match all the tom mics whenever possible. Always seem to speak better, more consistently when each gets the same mic. At the very least it's rack toms set and floors set.
So in those cases the e22 winds up on snare if I can fit it. And my 441 has one dent right on top. Shaped exactly like a stick tip... was there before I got it.
Another snare mic I've been using is the Blue encore 100i. Total 57/beta 57 killer.
Cant remember the last time I reached for a 57.
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Post by svart on Jul 12, 2021 8:37:53 GMT -6
They claim that all mics recorded the same hits but if you listen to the mics in quick succession you can hear a vastly different pitch on some of the mics as if they used later hits, after the head had detuned a little.
Also, I still note that the same as my snare mic shootout I posted here some time ago, there's so little difference in most of the mic tones that any of them could be used. I always found that it was the bleed or off-axis tone that made me not want to use a mic more than the tone from the on-axis.
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 12, 2021 11:05:47 GMT -6
They claim that all mics recorded the same hits but if you listen to the mics in quick succession you can hear a vastly different pitch on some of the mics as if they used later hits, after the head had detuned a little. Also, I still note that the same as my snare mic shootout I posted here some time ago, there's so little difference in most of the mic tones that any of them could be used. I always found that it was the bleed or off-axis tone that made me not want to use a mic more than the tone from the on-axis. I had that same thought about the pitch change too, but after listening some more, and looking at those snazzy waterfall graph thingies, I'm pretty sure it's the same hits with slightly different overtones emphasized, either by each mics' tonality or (more likely, IME as a drum tech / tuning nerd) placement around the head. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 11:12:32 GMT -6
This test makes me appreciate how easily the SM57 works. Especially because they screwed up the sound of some of the other good mics that require different placement from an sm57
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 11:17:05 GMT -6
Another problem with this shootout (and most snare mic shootouts) is that all the mics were on the top of the snare with no apparent attempt to optimize placement. I tend to place my KM84 to the side of the shell an inch or so away from the hole and not pointing at it. This gives not only a safe position for the mic,it also allows balancing top and bottom heads with the height of the mic along the side. therefore these shootouts aren't very relevant to me. It's not just KM84s, either - I used to do the same thing with a 451EB. Yes more proof that many of these “engineers” can fuck up the placement of something not an SM57. A recording of a kit miced well with only Shures will beat a kit miced poorly with gear lust mics. |
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Post by svart on Jul 12, 2021 11:38:57 GMT -6
They claim that all mics recorded the same hits but if you listen to the mics in quick succession you can hear a vastly different pitch on some of the mics as if they used later hits, after the head had detuned a little. Also, I still note that the same as my snare mic shootout I posted here some time ago, there's so little difference in most of the mic tones that any of them could be used. I always found that it was the bleed or off-axis tone that made me not want to use a mic more than the tone from the on-axis. I had that same thought about the pitch change too, but after listening some more, and looking at those snazzy waterfall graph thingies, I'm pretty sure it's the same hits with slightly different overtones emphasized, either by each mics' tonality or (more likely, IME as a drum tech / tuning nerd) placement around the head. I get what you're saying. I've just never heard such a stark difference in pitch from different mics. I've mic'd my black beauty hundreds of times with dozens of mics (many from this list) and haven't heard anything like this from overtones or modes, even from different areas on the heads, distances, etc. It really sounds like the head had stretched a little. It sounds identical to when I change to a fresh head and don't stretch it out well enough before the first takes. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 14, 2021 14:38:51 GMT -6
Another problem with this shootout (and most snare mic shootouts) is that all the mics were on the top of the snare with no apparent attempt to optimize placement. I tend to place my KM84 to the side of the shell an inch or so away from the hole and not pointing at it. This gives not only a safe position for the mic,it also allows balancing top and bottom heads with the height of the mic along the side. therefore these shootouts aren't very relevant to me. It's not just KM84s, either - I used to do the same thing with a 451EB. Yes more proof that many of these “engineers” can fuck up the placement of something not an SM57. A recording of a kit miced well with only Shures will beat a kit miced poorly with gear lust mics. In other words, if you're used to 57s all the time it makes you incompetent with better mics? |
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Post by javamad on Jul 15, 2021 8:52:59 GMT -6
I had that same thought about the pitch change too, but after listening some more, and looking at those snazzy waterfall graph thingies, I'm pretty sure it's the same hits with slightly different overtones emphasized, either by each mics' tonality or (more likely, IME as a drum tech / tuning nerd) placement around the head. I get what you're saying. I've just never heard such a stark difference in pitch from different mics. I've mic'd my black beauty hundreds of times with dozens of mics (many from this list) and haven't heard anything like this from overtones or modes, even from different areas on the heads, distances, etc. It really sounds like the head had stretched a little. It sounds identical to when I change to a fresh head and don't stretch it out well enough before the first takes. The article says they did the condensors after a lunch break and the snare had detuned a bit. |
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Post by svart on Jul 15, 2021 8:57:19 GMT -6
I get what you're saying. I've just never heard such a stark difference in pitch from different mics. I've mic'd my black beauty hundreds of times with dozens of mics (many from this list) and haven't heard anything like this from overtones or modes, even from different areas on the heads, distances, etc. It really sounds like the head had stretched a little. It sounds identical to when I change to a fresh head and don't stretch it out well enough before the first takes. The article says they did the condensors after a lunch break and the snare had detuned a bit. Ah ok. I read this: "Ultimately, I felt the variations in the sound of different snare hits was a greater variable than the positioning around the drum. So, we put up the mics and recorded the same hit with all the mics at the same time." And thought that meant they were claiming that every mic was done at the same time. However, I went back to read the article and I swear that line about the condensers being done later was NOT there the first time I read through the article.. Anyway, it explains what we are hearing. |
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Post by mcirish on Jul 15, 2021 12:43:25 GMT -6
I started out using a SM57 then went to an i5 (since I always need to add top and bottom end boosts to an SM57 anyway. I've been curious about the M80. I need to have a close listen in the studio. Just on earbuds, it seems a bit brighter than even the i5. I know a lot of people like the M201 too but for me it sounds kind of like a flat condenser. Just a smooth sound, which most often is not what I'm going for. I think it would be a better choice if I wanted a more muted snare that sits in the kit better. At least for now, I think I will stick with the i5.
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Post by Ward on Jul 15, 2021 20:46:04 GMT -6
Working on a full kit tonight, the M80 wasn't cutting it for a more dynamic drummer . . . so I left the C460 in place and replaced the Tfunk M80 with a Beyer M201.
Killed it!!
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