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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 9, 2021 17:57:15 GMT -6
I’m slowly preparing to buy a new computer. I can’t update my old cheese grater anymore so I’m thinking about the M1x Mac mini when it’s released. The question now stands, do I buy a TB UAD Satellite or not? I currently have UAD 2 pcie card that will be useless on a new machine. It’s getting harder and harder for me to justify staying in the UAD universe. I own quite a few of their plugs but the only ones I really use are:
LA2a (legacy)
1176 (legacy)
Plate 140
Cambridge EQ
And very occasionally:
Harrison 32c
Neve 1081
Fairchild (legacy)
If I stayed UAD I’d want to upgrade to the mkii versions of the la2a and 1176 bundles. And maybe get Capitol Chambers. I could care less about most EQ’s, don’t use unison stuff, don’t need 100 different compressors. I do really love reverbs and offloading the dsp on a bunch of verbs would be nice.
So do I stay UAD for a few reverbs and la2a/1176’s? Or ditch the platform and buy some alternatives?
What are the best opto comps to replace the la2a? Is there anything that does the 1176AE thing (2:1 ratio, slower attack)? I’d need plugs that are light on cpu usage.
Already own the Purple 1176 and MJUC so I’m looking at the “others”. Thanks in advance.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 9, 2021 19:05:43 GMT -6
I get the dilemma having sold all UA a few year’s ago and then rebuying selectively about 1 year ago.
Question, how long has it been since you have extensively demoed UA plugs ins you don’t use ? Point being, maybe there are roughly 10 you would use, in which case UA’s current bundle pricing 13 for the price of 10 on sale would be more attractive?
I have and use capital chambers so certainly recommend.
Others may better answer your substitution question?
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 9, 2021 19:14:34 GMT -6
I get the dilemma having sold all UA a few year’s ago and then rebuying selectively about 1 year ago. Question, how long has it been since you have extensively demoed UA plugs ins you don’t use ? Point being, maybe there are roughly 10 you would use, in which case UA’s current bundle pricing 13 for the price of 10 on sale would be more attractive? I have and use capital chambers so certainly recommend. Others may better answer your substitution question? Good question, it’s been a while since I really dug into it. I should look through what I own and give them another try. At one time I owned the entire collection. I was given the licenses while I was a gear pump, it was a short lived sales promo UA offered to salesman. I sold a bunch of their pcie cards, UA let me buy one half off and gave me all the current licenses. So my current investment is very low. I’m wondering if it’s worth it to spend $1500 on a box and licenses just to run some plugins…maybe it would, idk. My thinking is that I’d really want to take advantage of the dsp and buy some resource heavy plugins, like Capitol Chambers, if I go that route. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jul 9, 2021 19:14:49 GMT -6
Maybe pick up a used TB2 Quad? You'd need the TB2 -> USB-C adapter, of course.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 9, 2021 19:36:36 GMT -6
I also meant demo stuff you don’t own: personally I think mkii plugs kick legacy’s butts!  You might find there are more UA plugs you like then you realize now. I would recommend Rultec as a non UA pultec. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 9, 2021 19:58:42 GMT -6
Did that 4 years ago.
UAD is old technology , special when we have more native power than we need.
Check out everything from Black Rooster / Tokio Dawn Labs / Fuse Labs Audio / DDMF What FLA creates is sick like expensive hardware….
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Post by tkaitkai on Jul 9, 2021 20:12:57 GMT -6
Controversial take, but IMO, the legacy UAD plugins are plenty good enough. Sure, there’s a difference with the MKIIs (especially with the really new stuff, i.e. LUNA extensions), but I like the legacy 1176s, LA2As, Pultecs, Fairchilds, etc. just as much as the new ones. They don’t sound worse, just different.
I’m not sure it’s worth it to sink $1500 into UAD cards if you’re only going to upgrade to a few MKIIs. If you plan on going for the heavy-hitters (Capitol Records, Distressor, Voxbox, API Vision, 175B, 176, etc.), you’re probably getting more for your money.
All depends on how much you like UAD. If you’re not really a big UAD user, that cash is probably better spent elsewhere.
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Post by phantom on Jul 9, 2021 20:24:46 GMT -6
There are plenty of good alternatives out there. And I would say that for any company. If something about it does not make sense to you, ditch it. Pro Tools is not worth it anymore for you? Get another DAW. Slate subscription is getting ridiculous? Cancel it. Can't justify staying on the UAD ecosystem? Sell it and buy other plugins. Ilok is a pain in the ass? Use only plugins that don't need it.
We live in a moment with plenty of options that will get you where you want. I'm sure about that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2021 21:06:26 GMT -6
LAs:
Fuse VCL-4
Overloud Comp LA
Variety of Sound Nasty VLA
Apogee Opto 3A
Molot GE alpha mode preset.
1176:
Klanghelm DC8C3 at least 2x oversampling, input saturation on to taste, smash mode, 100% feedback, less than 1 ms attack, play with release and program dependency. S curve is cool.
PSP Fetpressor
Molot GE on insane, crank input, saturation and feed back on of course, experiment heavily with dual release and instant/relaxed.
Emt 140:
Psp emt 2445
The DDMF one
Black rooster one
Cambridge EQ:
Sonnox Oxford EQ
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 9, 2021 21:37:14 GMT -6
I've found some pretty cool analog emulations of UAD's plugins. The Audioscape guys make a nice physical model of the beloved UAD 1176 and LA2A, if you prefer using newer equipment. And, if you don't mind using older equipment, there's a lot of used hardware available that offers a pretty convincing facsimile of the UAD ecosystem. It's not a 100% perfect emulation of what UAD does, but a lot of people actually prefer the analog stuff to the UAD digital offerings. YMMV.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 9, 2021 21:46:32 GMT -6
There are plenty of good alternatives out there. And I would say that for any company. If something about it does not make sense to you, ditch it. Pro Tools is not worth it anymore for you? Get another DAW. Slate subscription is getting ridiculous? Cancel it. Can't justify staying on the UAD ecosystem? Sell it and buy other plugins. Ilok is a pain in the ass? Use only plugins that don't need it. We live in a moment with plenty of options that will get you where you want. I'm sure about that. Thats where I’m at, just evaluating the options. I ditched Slate subscription plan a while back. I uninstalled a bunch of plugins and Vsti’s I didn’t use. Just not sure if I’ll miss offloading some dsp. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 9, 2021 21:47:51 GMT -6
Did that 4 years ago. UAD is old technology , special when we have more native power than we need. Check out everything from Black Rooster / Tokio Dawn Labs / Fuse Labs Audio / DDMF What FLA creates is sick like expensive hardware…. I never met a computer I could max out. Especially with high counts of reverb and delay, which I often do. I’ll have to check out Fuse. What’s the best opto style compressor they make? Paging you Dan! |
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Post by ragan on Jul 9, 2021 21:50:55 GMT -6
I think UAD is cool stuff and if you want to go all in on an Apollo and use Unison stuff and get into Luna, it's a pretty cool ecosystem. But if you're just talking about whether to buy DSP to run UAD plugs, personally I'd say move on to other things. It would be one thing if you already had an Octo or more and the DSP itself didn't need significant investment. If you're not all in on the Apollo and/or Luna ecosystem and you'd need to buy fresh DSP just to run the plugs and stay on the platform, it's tough to justify in my view. I just can't imagine paying UAD plugin prices (let alone buying the DSP hardware) just to be on par with the good native stuff which is much, much cheaper and (in most ways) more flexible. There is so much good native stuff out there. Take that money you would have sunk into a fresh round of UAD investment and get some cool hardware or an instrument or something!
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Post by ragan on Jul 9, 2021 21:54:42 GMT -6
For what it's worth (not much), my favorite optos are Black Rooster VLA-2A, Brainworx bx_opto, and Fuse VCL-4. All of which can be had on the cheap and stand up to anything else. Honestly bx_opto, which you can get for damn near free sometimes, is probably my favorite.
My favorite 1176s are the PA Purple MC77 and the Softube FET Compressor.
I don't have a native equivalent to the Harrison 32C, though I loved the UAD version so much I bought a pair of the Great River 500 series units, which I've used and loved for years now. But for any ITB console EQ stuff, I really like the bx_console SSL 9000J and the bx_console N. Those are absolute go-to's for me.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 10, 2021 4:06:45 GMT -6
all Black rooster is on sale now.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 10, 2021 4:10:15 GMT -6
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Post by Guitar on Jul 10, 2021 5:55:37 GMT -6
It would be financially unwise, IMO, to use a newly purchased UAD Satellite / UAD Plugin Prices for 1176 / LA2A / Plate / Digital EQ. The UAD DSP satellite system is a bit of an anachronism in 2021. It's slightly interesting to me that people consider it to be modern or high tech or anything like that, since it's so limited and old-school. The price of the system is also "interesting," to me. But hey, this is recording studio culture, most of what we do seems insane to other people.
Anyway, I'll recommend a few native alternatives that I would happily use instead of the UAD you mentioned, and often do.
1176: Arturia FET 76 (tweak city if you want it), IK Multimedia Black 76 (cheeeeap, simple), there are just so many of these out there to pick from, I happen to use those two lately more often than not.
LA2A: ACME Opticom, Empirical Labs Arousor opto mode, Plugin Alliance / IK Opto also will work. Or the free Analog Obession plugins, as a no-cost option.
Plate Reverb: Soundtoys Little Plate, this is really close to the UAD...close enough. IK Sunset Sound: This will replace UAD Plate, Chamber, Spring, and Ocean Way in one plugin. It's fantastic. The Waves Abbey Road plate/chamber are also cool, but heavy on CPU, and not quite the same as the UAD. PSP 2445 is also excellent as mentioned. For the digital algorithmic/everything else reverbs I'd simply grab Exponential Audio R4 and Nimbus, and Eventide SP2016, these all go on sales.
Cambridge EQ: I would recommend the Massenburg MDWEQ6 Native, it's mastering-grade, super low CPU, oversampled, great at notching/cutting, just a marvel of coding. It's the anywhere/everywhere/always EQ for me. You could also check out Toneboosters EQ4 for more features/modes, and Waves F6 for another simple EQ that does static/dynamic, although F6 is a little higher on CPU than these other I'm recommending. For a simple, crusty, old school EQ like Cambridge maybe the Waves Q10 would do the trick, or the Rennaisance EQ, both of these, sort of "vintage digital." The Massenburg is the Ferrari version of these, and old-school enough to somehow seem cool still, with the ugly GUI and lack of whiz-bang Stephen Hawking features. You could buy Sonnox but dang that thing is a bit expensive for a plugin.
Harrison: not sure, but Analog Obesssion has one you can A/B to see if it stacks up or not.
Fairchild: definitely a good UAD, you could check the IK Multimedia one, it's a little dirtier sounding, but good. The Analog Obession EAR 660 is also cool, and free.
Neve 1081: I really like the UAD Neves, too. The Analog Obession neve channel is very good (free), Plugin Alliance Lindell 80 is an option, Black Rooster V Pre 73 if you only need the high shelf and the preamp overdrive. I can also recommend the Aturia 1973 Pre, and the Waves VEQ4 as strong options that I use happily. Between all of these surely there would be something to stand in for the UAD. I'm shopping the Noise Ash Neve channel but haven't demo'd it yet, another one to look at.
If you do decide to go with the UAD satellite, find a good deal on a used one, and maybe it won't be such a pain. If you search around long enough, you might find one that's tolerable to buy. I have a Firewire Quad that I think was $350 or so, which I'm OK with. $800 for a brand new Quad is not an option for me, couldn't do it.
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Post by Quint on Jul 10, 2021 6:00:23 GMT -6
For what it's worth (not much), my favorite optos are Black Rooster VLA-2A, Brainworx bx_opto, and Fuse VCL-4. All of which can be had on the cheap and stand up to anything else. Honestly bx_opto, which you can get for damn near free sometimes, is probably my favorite. My favorite 1176s are the PA Purple MC77 and the Softube FET Compressor. I don't have a native equivalent to the Harrison 32C, though I loved the UAD version so much I bought a pair of the Great River 500 series units, which I've used and loved for years now. But for any ITB console EQ stuff, I really like the bx_console SSL 9000J and the bx_console N. Those are absolute go-to's for me. Acustica has an Acqua plugin (Honey) based on the Harrison, or, should I say, sampled from a real Harrison. www.acustica-audio.com/store/products/honey |
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Post by gwlee7 on Jul 10, 2021 6:34:58 GMT -6
I have a UAD USB Octo Satellite and 45 plugins that I am willing to sell. It’s in the classifieds. Several reverbs are included. Capitol Chambers is one of them.
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Post by phantom on Jul 10, 2021 6:37:58 GMT -6
Liquidsonics Lustrous Plates is very good as well.
One of the most "3d" reverbs imo.
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Post by mike on Jul 10, 2021 8:31:39 GMT -6
I respect UA, and recognize we all like to work different ways, but my preferring hardware over Unison's and choosing PT over Luna along with the combination of leaving UA's plug pricing and resale policy behind while going Native made it an easy decision for me to opt out of the UA ecosystem more than a year ago and I don't regret it at all. I should have done it earlier for me.
I'd echo what Ragan said and demo the PA bx_opto, Fuse VCL-4 and PA Purple MC77 that are good plugs and can all be had cheap especially if you wait for sales.
And I'd Demo Liquidsonics Seventh Heaven and Lustrous Plates for verb/plates. Those aren't necessarily cheap (though the basic 7th Heaven is a very good value) but they have some pretty good sales once or twice a year I think like on BF.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 10, 2021 8:48:42 GMT -6
LS offers cumulative sales discounts like Fab filter as you own more plugs.
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Post by ragan on Jul 10, 2021 8:54:29 GMT -6
Yeah I forgot to mentioned Liquidsonics. Lustruous Plates was the first native plug that made me stop missing UAD EMT140.
Lately I use Reverberate 3 with an EMT IR more, which I think is better and more real sounding than anything else, but Lustruous is really, really nice.
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Post by mjheck on Jul 10, 2021 9:08:43 GMT -6
Hi,
I sort of went through this in both directions; a few years ago, I moved away from hardware and leaned heavily on the UAD collection. I am apparently one of the rare folks who likes tracking with with Unison plug ins. I felt their MKII 1073 (with the gain pushed and the EQ in) was extremely close to my 1066's and more or less on par with other Neve things I had owned like the GTQC or JC 1272. The API Vision Strip was close enough to my API Channel Strips. I also had fun using the Vox Box and the 737 (which I preferred to the real 737's I owned years ago).
In 2020, my trusty 2012 iMac failed and I opted to go with an M1 Mini. At that time, UAD was not compatible, so on the fly I restructured my template/work flow to all native. I was able to more or less replace broad EQ and harmonic distortion with the TDK Slick EQ GE, and used Rvox for compression and gating (not printing, just monitoring) on the way in.
As for as mix template replacements for the specific items you mentioned:
1176: If I needed to replace the vibe of the UAD Blue Stripe, PA's Purple. Otherwise I would start with the TDK Kotelnikov GE, which I just love (it reminds me of my reissue LA3A's)
LA2A: Kotelnikov again (it can do slow and dual release)
Cambridge EQ: Fab Fliter Pro Q2 (I have 3 but am just more fluent in 2)
Reverbs: I love both the UA Capitol and the UA BX20. However, I was already using Nebula reverbs as I prefer them - specifically, the VNXT 140 and BX20, the EAR rooms and the Tim Petherick Great Spring. yes, it is a bit of a pain in the ass, but it is way better than in 2011 and I thing they are worth it. The 140 (since you mentioned it specifically) is just gorgeous.
Other substitutions:
UAD 33609: BX Townhouse (PA)
UAD SSL Bus Comp: Cytomic the Glue
UAD SSL Channel Strip: SSL 4000 E (PA)
UAD SPL Transient Designer: SPL Transient Designer Plus (PA)
UAD 1081: If I want dirt and low end Neve bloom, I like the Kush Omega N. If I want the mid to high color, I really love the Airwindows Channel (I think it is up to 8 or 9) which mimics the roll offs and eq
UAD Harrison: I too like the UAD version. I have not looked for a substitute, though.
UAD Fairchild: my favorite for the is again Nebula - I like the Farichild from the Henry Olonga "Mojo" collection. This is an amazing color suite that is either $40 or free. The Cupwise 660 is also excellent.
In regards to a versatile digital compressor, I was going to add the Klanghelm MJUC, but for as often as I demo it, I very rarely keep it on. I find I usually end up with the Kotelnikov, RVox or even the stock Logic compressor, as I think their DBX and 1176 approximations work.
I think Fab Filter Saturn 2 is pretty incredible - fantastic fo saturation and color.
In a very broad sense, if you are looking for a broad rethinking and replacement, I certainly recommend visiting the Airwindows site. Chris does everything via Patreon. It is hard not to feel enthusiastic about an entrepreneur with integrity and creativity. And as a bonus, I love his plug ins! He has updated many of the things I bought years ago, but for a simple touch of Neve, SSL or API color, I love the aforementioned "ChannelX" (mine is 4). His "Logical" compressor does a very nice SSL emulation. His To Tape and To Vinyl are excellent and I often prefer them to the UAD tape emus. He has an overwhelming amount to choose from my now, but there are videos and descriptions on his site.
Finally, in the interest of full disclosure - each track in my non UAD template starts with three plug ins - Pro Q 2, Kotelnikov and Transient Designer. I leave a slot open before the transient designer for a "tone/color" plug in in case the track needs it. This is where the Omega N, Channel4, Nebula or any other color based selection tends to go (from UAD world, that now tends to be 1176 Blue, DBX 160, Fasto, 33609, Manley Vari Mu or the 1073 MKII).
Of course, I mostly just work for myself now, but it took about fifteen years and shit tons of analog gear to get to this point. I have been able to achieve any sounds I seek with this little set up, which certainly wasn't always the case, even with some pretty excellent gear in the studio.
Since UAD has again become compatible, I am back to tracking with UAD on the way in - however, my mix template is still almost exclusively native.
Good luck with this - while a pain in the ass, I have often found a burst of energy and creativity comes out of a rethinking. I hope it serves you similarly.
JMH
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Post by deaconblues on Jul 10, 2021 11:31:14 GMT -6
Finally, in the interest of full disclosure - each track in my non UAD template starts with three plug ins - Pro Q 2, Kotelnikov and Transient Designer. JMH Great post! OT but cool to see someone else being fully committed to transient designing in their channel strip. They are so powerful! I use both hardware (nvelope 500) and software on almost everything I do. |
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You might find there are more UA plugs you like then you realize now.
