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Post by chessparov on Jul 4, 2021 11:52:02 GMT -6
Interested in your thoughts. IMHO they sound a little brighter than Dakings. And between Neve and API. Thanks, Chris
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 4, 2021 11:55:18 GMT -6
They sounded a little boring to me. Nice, clear, and articulate but without a lot of character. This was with an ISA 220. It's worth noting that the first generation ISA outboard pres (the 110/115 I think?) are a different beast and are supposed to be original to the console they're based on, which sounds awesome btw.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 4, 2021 12:41:00 GMT -6
I just have the current Scarlett hardware emulation-Supposedly of a ISA Console Pre. (Air Button)
I think it works well on me, but it might be more idiosyncratic than general. Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2021 13:12:36 GMT -6
They're just different. I prefer Daking but the Focusrites from the Clarett and up are fine but each a bit colored. The Scarletts are lofi but still not the worst. I've had more horrible Presonus experiences from working units than from WORKING Focusrite units.
The ISA have a fairly evenish sound for a color pre that's pretty cool but not crackhead unless abused. High distortion in the low end when pushed a bit. Cool top. It's colored but not super colored. Recent ones without the carnhill transformers on output and just the lundahl on input aren't as cool but are still cool. They're both cheapened out and mediocritized for modern music I guess because the average person buying them from sweetwater or guitar center isn't prepared for the color coming from chip pres. I would be concerned about heat with the multichannel contemporary ones with all the chinese parts in the newer ones. Every piece of current focusrite equipment has capacitors I would not want to see in anything costing over a thousand dollars that they probably will not service.
The Clarett and up Focusrite pres seem to try to emulate the ISA sound and sound more tonally uneven (the bass sort of gets bigger instead of rounder) but they can be super fat in the low end. They don't sound bad, they're just colored. The Scarletts sound boring and sort of warmed over like a worse version of my MOTU pres. You can still do a lot worse than a working octopre.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 4, 2021 13:19:41 GMT -6
My favorite part about the Claretts is the conversion, which I find to be really sonorous, the preamps are OK, they are serviceable but not going to win shootouts, the conversion makes up for it.
I haven't owned a newer Scarlett, just the really old ones. Haven't heard the new ones with the Air pres. Haven't heard the ISA stuff either.
The basic idea seems to be leave the AIR button on all the time, with the Claretts anyway. The pres can be a bit dark otherwise.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 4, 2021 17:34:06 GMT -6
They sounded a little boring to me. Nice, clear, and articulate but without a lot of character. This was with an ISA 220. It's worth noting that the first generation ISA outboard pres (the 110/115 I think?) are a different beast and are supposed to be original to the console they're based on, which sounds awesome btw. Original 110/115’s have a very cool bit of color, the later ones were just Blah. Sure they won’t keep you from making a great record but anytime I used the Pre in a first gen isa430 next to A good Neve or CAPI I only remember one acoustic guitar part where the 430 was the winner. On that track we needed boring.
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 4, 2021 17:43:41 GMT -6
I used to have an isa428. It sounded really good to me. Like others have stated, pretty even, balanced, clear, with a hint of color. Cool stuff, but didn’t quite wow me on anything. I did love it on piano.
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Post by Ward on Jul 5, 2021 7:14:45 GMT -6
I have and use two ISA220s and twin ISA428s. All Mark-1 stuff. They're my go-to utility pres. True they sound generic, but it's the generic that started it all: Neve. Don't use them watching the VUs or the LEDs. Use your ears. The extremely variable HPF is incredibly useful. The switchable impendences and ISA mode work exactly as you would expect.
I could make a record with only ISA preamps.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 5, 2021 8:17:11 GMT -6
I have and use two ISA220s and twin ISA428s. All Mark-1 stuff. They're my go-to utility pres. True they sound generic, but it's the generic that started it all: Neve. Don't use them watching the VUs or the LEDs. Use your ears. The extremely variable HPF is incredibly useful. The switchable impendences and ISA mode work exactly as you would expect. I could make a record with only ISA preamps. Kind of reminds me of how I think about my Sound Devices preamps (also Lundahl inputs, as some of the ISA have.) Completely boring in just the right way, useful anywhere.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 5, 2021 9:09:28 GMT -6
I have and use two ISA220s and twin ISA428s. All Mark-1 stuff. They're my go-to utility pres. True they sound generic, but it's the generic that started it all: Neve. Don't use them watching the VUs or the LEDs. Use your ears. The extremely variable HPF is incredibly useful. The switchable impendences and ISA mode work exactly as you would expect. I could make a record with only ISA preamps. Kind of reminds me of how I think about my Sound Devices preamps (also Lundahl inputs, as some of the ISA have.) Completely boring in just the right way, useful anywhere. Boring is underrated. After adding a bunch of color pieces to my setup over the last six months, it's nice to know I've got my nearly transparent Unison pres available anytime I need to minimize variables. I appreciate them a lot more than I used to.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 5, 2021 9:20:23 GMT -6
Boring is underrated. After adding a bunch of color pieces to my setup over the last six months, it's nice to know I've got my nearly transparent Unison pres available anytime I need to minimize variables. I appreciate them a lot more than I used to. Agree completely. I have this MOTU Ultralite MK5 the preamps are so clean I can't hear them. Some of my favorite things to record into. In a day or two I have a Cranborne Camden coming, hopefully the same idea.
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Post by plinker on Jul 5, 2021 12:02:49 GMT -6
I remember, many years ago, Mix Mag (I think it was them) did a preamp shootout. They had most of the usual suspects (for the time). The reviewers agreed that the ISA428 sounded best across the board.
Gravesnumber & Monkey: I'm with you on the clean preamp thing. I'm slowly dropping my outboard in favor of the ULN8 preamps. I don't have the mental energy for dicking around with preamps and preamp distortion anymore. Maybe the old Millennia ads were on to something for non-pros like me -- "Don't paint yourself into a corner".
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Post by earlevel on Jul 5, 2021 20:15:55 GMT -6
OK, I'm not an authority, but I'll put in my 0.02. I've had an ISA One for a few years, mainly for vocals on a few different mics, SM7B the one requiring the most gain, otherwise condensers. I also used it a little for DI (electric guitar, processing ITB), it's really convenient for mic + DI. The One is pretty feature rich, and a bargain for what it sells for used. If I want to pulverize my signal, I'll do it ITB, so I never felt it was lacking for my purposes. But i did have curiosity to try new/old things (EQP-KT arrives tomorrow, for instance).
More recently, I bought a Great River ME-1NV, chosen from listening to blind shootouts (though on acoustic guitar, something I won't be recording), and confirmed by the fact it has a separate output gain control, which appeals to me. The target was my Soyuz 017 FET, and I did a brief comparison of the mic on both preamps. I set the two preamps up on consecutive channels, roughly matched the gains, and listened through headphones, swapping from one pre to the other. I didn't find the ISA One lacking compared to the ME-1NV. I didn't play with different settings, but if anything the ISA was a little more transparent, the ME-1NV seemed to slightly muddy the sound by comparison (using moderately aggressive gain on the ME), but that also seemed to give it a little glue. I wouldn't feel bad about using either. Large price difference.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 5, 2021 20:25:39 GMT -6
IMO the key element is the Lundahl mic transformer. Not as squeaky clean as a Jensen but not as coloured as a Neve.
The original Focusrite micpre as used in the Focusrite console used a Lundahl LL1538 mic transformer feeding a NE5534 opamp and a custom toroidal output transformer.
The NE5534 was nothing spectacular but the Lundahl did a fair bit of the initial gain so the 5534 wasn’t pushed as hard as it would have been in a transformerless design.
I like the SCA J99’s a lot which are also fitted with a LL1538XL micpre transformer but use a pair of 990 opamps (Twin Servo) and a high nickel Cinemag output transformer.
I find they have almost the perfect balance of clean (without being sterile) yet just enough character that works on nearly any source and especially vocals and acoustic instruments.
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Post by guitfiddler on Jul 5, 2021 23:15:25 GMT -6
I’ve owned just about every Focusrite product throughout the years. ISA 110 original- The best sounding pre ever made! Ok, that’s pushing it, but I really love this preamp with EQ. One of my favorites! ISA 215 original - The originals have the same circuitry as the the 110’s, big beautiful and bold! Talking with the Focusrite experts from what I gathered there were 2 of these ISA 215’s, the originals that killed it like the 110’s, then there’s some that were built later that weren't as good. I do not know what happened there because the ones that were different than the originals I never seen or heard, maybe someone can chime in on this? ISA 430 mkI - I dug the mk1, I didn’t care for the compressor because it wasn’t very versatile and it was slow, sounded good, nice EQ, but it wasn’t as good as the originals. Really good though. ISA 430 mkII - weaker yet and I didn’t spend a lot of time with it, sold it quick when I didn’t like it as much as the mk1. Red Edition - I liked the preamps, the ones with transformer in’s and outs, really nice. I had the 4 channel pre 1! One I wish I never sold, but shit happens! Green series…uh, ? I owned the voice box, it was clean and quirky, didn’t really care for it, had issues with it after time. I got some decent tracks out of it, but it wasn’t a wow box. It died, and I still have it in the dungeon of gear that died. The 428 mkI w/VU’s - I liked this box, it was kind of middle of the road and ok, but you could cook an egg on it. It got so hot that I was concerned that my rack was going to melt! I bought this for $1299 and sold it for $1999! There was a price increase and although I had it for sometime I sold it at the right time. This was a hot seller at one time! Not a bad pre, neither good or bad, use a good EQ and compressor and it’s a decent pre. The 828, I really wanted to buy this preamp, but just never would spend that much for a box that came out about the time the 428 mkII came out, at least what I could remember. It got pretty good reviews from what I remember, but just couldn’t bring myself to buy it after the 428. I agree with Ward on that you could easily do a record with these preamps. I started going to API after this and never looked back! Gave up on Focusrite after this. I was always interested in the Compounder though because a buddy of mine introduced me to this box. Not bad, but then again, I have so many dedicated nice compressors I gave up on Focusrite, but still checked out the silver faceplate Platinum range. It worked really good in front of my analog desk, but then I was already going halfway hybrid at this time, and it was just a different time in my studio of experimenting with going hybrid and digidesign, getting rid of the vanilla pres and going with what worked for me.
Just my experience from what I can remember from all the years of going through the Focusrite products with all their different models.
I still own the 110’s and a 215 and the rest didn’t make the cut. Just my 2 cents. . Oh and I forgot the 110 LE, I wanted to buy one and compare to my original 110’s, but I couldn’t find one and never heard it. I think they sold out of these quick. I really wanted to get a chance to hear these…There is something to be said about the original 110’s, there is something in those pre’s that is just alive!
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Post by rowmat on Jul 6, 2021 0:09:10 GMT -6
Here’s a clip specifically about Lundahl and Focusrite.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 6, 2021 6:58:47 GMT -6
I’ve owned just about every Focusrite product throughout the years. ISA 110 original- The best sounding pre ever made! Ok, that’s pushing it, but I really love this preamp with EQ. One of my favorites! ISA 215 original - The originals have the same circuitry as the the 110’s, big beautiful and bold! Talking with the Focusrite experts from what I gathered there were 2 of these ISA 215’s, the originals that killed it like the 110’s, then there’s some that were built later that weren't as good. I do not know what happened there because the ones that were different than the originals I never seen or heard, maybe someone can chime in on this? ISA 430 mkI - I dug the mk1, I didn’t care for the compressor because it wasn’t very versatile and it was slow, sounded good, nice EQ, but it wasn’t as good as the originals. Really good though. ISA 430 mkII - weaker yet and I didn’t spend a lot of time with it, sold it quick when I didn’t like it as much as the mk1. Red Edition - I liked the preamps, the ones with transformer in’s and outs, really nice. I had the 4 channel pre 1! One I wish I never sold, but shit happens! Green series…uh, ? I owned the voice box, it was clean and quirky, didn’t really care for it, had issues with it after time. I got some decent tracks out of it, but it wasn’t a wow box. It died, and I still have it in the dungeon of gear that died. The 428 mkI w/VU’s - I liked this box, it was kind of middle of the road and ok, but you could cook an egg on it. It got so hot that I was concerned that my rack was going to melt! I bought this for $1299 and sold it for $1999! There was a price increase and although I had it for sometime I sold it at the right time. This was a hot seller at one time! Not a bad pre, neither good or bad, use a good EQ and compressor and it’s a decent pre. The 828, I really wanted to buy this preamp, but just never would spend that much for a box that came out about the time the 428 mkII came out, at least what I could remember. It got pretty good reviews from what I remember, but just couldn’t bring myself to buy it after the 428. I agree with Ward on that you could easily do a record with these preamps. I started going to API after this and never looked back! Gave up on Focusrite after this. I was always interested in the Compounder though because a buddy of mine introduced me to this box. Not bad, but then again, I have so many dedicated nice compressors I gave up on Focusrite, but still checked out the silver faceplate Platinum range. It worked really good in front of my analog desk, but then I was already going halfway hybrid at this time, and it was just a different time in my studio of experimenting with going hybrid and digidesign, getting rid of the vanilla pres and going with what worked for me. Just my experience from what I can remember from all the years of going through the Focusrite products with all their different models. I still own the 110’s and a 215 and the rest didn’t make the cut. Just my 2 cents. . Oh and I forgot the 110 LE, I wanted to buy one and compare to my original 110’s, but I couldn’t find one and never heard it. I think they sold out of these quick. I really wanted to get a chance to hear these…There is something to be said about the original 110’s, there is something in those pre’s that is just alive! The transformer less green series almost felt more like a nice Soundcraft rather than a Neve design plus that really strange textured front panel was just strange. I wanted to love the Green EQ when they were going dirt cheap but I never really felt like I was using more than a typical British console.
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 6, 2021 9:19:34 GMT -6
I’d like to add that I’ve tracked at SST in Weehawken NJ a few times. They have a beautifully maintained Focusrite console. It’s gorgeous sounding. Big, bold, clean, with tons of depth. Granted, that room is incredible, but that board is definitely something special. In comparison to what I heard from my old 428, I’d say the 428 is a little pointier. Maybe less extended and easy feeling.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 6, 2021 10:12:27 GMT -6
I’d like to add that I’ve tracked at SST in Weehawken NJ a few times. They have a beautifully maintained Focusrite console. It’s gorgeous sounding. Big, bold, clean, with tons of depth. Granted, that room is incredible, but that board is definitely something special. In comparison to what I heard from my old 428, I’d say the 428 is a little pointier. Maybe less extended and easy feeling. +1, I tracked on the Focusrite Console they had at Paramount, I think its at Ocean Way now. It really was a gorgeous sounding console. I think my dislike for the ISA 220 is related to the fact that the outboard didn't sound like the console. But then again, my aml 1073's sound great, but not like a Neve console either (nor should they be expected to).
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 6, 2021 10:21:18 GMT -6
I’d like to add that I’ve tracked at SST in Weehawken NJ a few times. They have a beautifully maintained Focusrite console. It’s gorgeous sounding. Big, bold, clean, with tons of depth. Granted, that room is incredible, but that board is definitely something special. In comparison to what I heard from my old 428, I’d say the 428 is a little pointier. Maybe less extended and easy feeling. +1, I tracked on the Focusrite Console they had at Paramount, I think its at Ocean Way now. It really was a gorgeous sounding console. I think my dislike for the ISA 220 is related to the fact that the outboard didn't sound like the console. But then again, my aml 1073's sound great, but not like a Neve console either (nor should they be expected to). Definitely. There is something about the sum of all parts of a console that give it a sound!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 6, 2021 10:37:40 GMT -6
+1, I tracked on the Focusrite Console they had at Paramount, I think its at Ocean Way now. It really was a gorgeous sounding console. I think my dislike for the ISA 220 is related to the fact that the outboard didn't sound like the console. But then again, my aml 1073's sound great, but not like a Neve console either (nor should they be expected to). Definitely. There is something about the sum of all parts of a console that give it a sound! There is also the fact that other than the original 110’s and 115’s none of the ISA series was made by the same company as the consoles. Focusrite as most know it is the result of the company that built the consoles being bought after bankruptcy by a group headed by the guy who was in charge of Soundcraft Spirt division at Harmon. Sort of explains the whole down market progression doesn’t it.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 6, 2021 12:25:34 GMT -6
Definitely. There is something about the sum of all parts of a console that give it a sound! There is also the fact that other than the original 110’s and 115’s none of the ISA series was made by the same company as the consoles. Focusrite as most know it is the result of the company that built the consoles being bought after bankruptcy by a group headed by the guy who was in charge of Soundcraft Spirt division at Harmon. Sort of explains the whole down market progression doesn’t it. Good point! Didn’t the original 110/115’s have external power supplies too? I always thought it was disappointing how quickly Focusrite devolved into the prosumer market. At the time there weren’t a lot of outboard mic Pres/channel strips that you could buy at your local GC etc. Seems like there was a place for them in the HW market that they never fully realized. Then again, they probably make a bazillion more selling scarletts than ISA Pres.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 6, 2021 13:51:40 GMT -6
There is also the fact that other than the original 110’s and 115’s none of the ISA series was made by the same company as the consoles. Focusrite as most know it is the result of the company that built the consoles being bought after bankruptcy by a group headed by the guy who was in charge of Soundcraft Spirt division at Harmon. Sort of explains the whole down market progression doesn’t it. Good point! Didn’t the original 110/115’s have external power supplies too? I always thought it was disappointing how quickly Focusrite devolved into the prosumer market. At the time there weren’t a lot of outboard mic Pres/channel strips that you could buy at your local GC etc. Seems like there was a place for them in the HW market that they never fully realized. Then again, they probably make a bazillion more selling scarletts than ISA Pres. The originals were racked versions of what was in the consoles same PCB’s and outboard PSU’s. Until Focusrite the highend manufacturer avoided MI like the plague. It’s part of why they exploded: nobody who was selling the stuff new the legend except for what they read in Mix, but it was all based on a Rupert Neve design so no matter what it had to be great right? It’s not bad but it’s not the same as what’s in the board!
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Post by jmoose on Jul 6, 2021 15:03:00 GMT -6
There is also the fact that other than the original 110’s and 115’s none of the ISA series was made by the same company as the consoles. Focusrite as most know it is the result of the company that built the consoles being bought after bankruptcy by a group headed by the guy who was in charge of Soundcraft Spirt division at Harmon. Sort of explains the whole down market progression doesn’t it. Kind of a cheap shot and not entirely true. Focusrite, the original Rupert Neve company really never existed for more then a couple years if even that. He built one console before going bankrupt. Console #2 was the Electric Ladyland desk and, based on what a friend who worked there at the time told me... they got a call one day that was basically "Hi, ummm... we've built most of your console but it isn't finished. And we're bankrupt & closed... so we can't finish it and will ship what we can. Hope you can sort it out! Cheers!" If Phil who yes, ran Soundcraft in the '70s & 80s hadn't stepped in with money they wouldn't have built the other 10 odd consoles mentioned in the documentary above. They wouldn't have existed, the Blue range... Red range... none of it. Focusrite would've been a blip in history. The original Focusrite product was a pre/EQ to fit in George Martin's SSL 4000 desk. Have an article on it somewhere in my archives... the studio desk came later and buried the company. And fwiw another one of my friends was the house engineer at Beartracks in NY which is now the console installed at SST in NJ. I like the ISA pres well enough in all their incarnations, which yeah... they're all a little different but from the same family. Not sure the basic circuit has changed all that much aside from layout to fit various form factors and yes... power supply. That's a big one. The consoles and racked modules drew a TON of juice and ran hot. Real hot. The heat coming off the desk at Beartracks was memorable and hard to get away from... reaching all the way up to the preamp gain at top of the strip would roast your arm. Haven't measured anything but just a hunch, the 110 rack reissues in the 90's... 428 & other later boxes are probably running more (less?) efficient supplies which won't cook capacitors but maybe also don't sound as beefy as the original stuff. Trade reliability for tone? Something like that. Don't own any ISA, Blue or Red gear but I'm always happy to see it in racks and put it to use!
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Post by forgotteng on Jul 6, 2021 15:18:49 GMT -6
I’ve owned just about every Focusrite product throughout the years. ISA 110 original- The best sounding pre ever made! Ok, that’s pushing it, but I really love this preamp with EQ. One of my favorites! ISA 215 original - The originals have the same circuitry as the the 110’s, big beautiful and bold! Talking with the Focusrite experts from what I gathered there were 2 of these ISA 215’s, the originals that killed it like the 110’s, then there’s some that were built later that weren't as good. I do not know what happened there because the ones that were different than the originals I never seen or heard, maybe someone can chime in on this? ISA 430 mkI - I dug the mk1, I didn’t care for the compressor because it wasn’t very versatile and it was slow, sounded good, nice EQ, but it wasn’t as good as the originals. Really good though. ISA 430 mkII - weaker yet and I didn’t spend a lot of time with it, sold it quick when I didn’t like it as much as the mk1. Red Edition - I liked the preamps, the ones with transformer in’s and outs, really nice. I had the 4 channel pre 1! One I wish I never sold, but shit happens! Green series…uh, ? I owned the voice box, it was clean and quirky, didn’t really care for it, had issues with it after time. I got some decent tracks out of it, but it wasn’t a wow box. It died, and I still have it in the dungeon of gear that died. The 428 mkI w/VU’s - I liked this box, it was kind of middle of the road and ok, but you could cook an egg on it. It got so hot that I was concerned that my rack was going to melt! I bought this for $1299 and sold it for $1999! There was a price increase and although I had it for sometime I sold it at the right time. This was a hot seller at one time! Not a bad pre, neither good or bad, use a good EQ and compressor and it’s a decent pre. The 828, I really wanted to buy this preamp, but just never would spend that much for a box that came out about the time the 428 mkII came out, at least what I could remember. It got pretty good reviews from what I remember, but just couldn’t bring myself to buy it after the 428. I agree with Ward on that you could easily do a record with these preamps. I started going to API after this and never looked back! Gave up on Focusrite after this. I was always interested in the Compounder though because a buddy of mine introduced me to this box. Not bad, but then again, I have so many dedicated nice compressors I gave up on Focusrite, but still checked out the silver faceplate Platinum range. It worked really good in front of my analog desk, but then I was already going halfway hybrid at this time, and it was just a different time in my studio of experimenting with going hybrid and digidesign, getting rid of the vanilla pres and going with what worked for me. Just my experience from what I can remember from all the years of going through the Focusrite products with all their different models. I still own the 110’s and a 215 and the rest didn’t make the cut. Just my 2 cents. . Oh and I forgot the 110 LE, I wanted to buy one and compare to my original 110’s, but I couldn’t find one and never heard it. I think they sold out of these quick. I really wanted to get a chance to hear these…There is something to be said about the original 110’s, there is something in those pre’s that is just alive! I also owned the 428 MKII and you are correct. That thing got frighteningly hot. I didn't have a problem per se with the sound of the unit but I sent it out for factory repair and had terrible service. After much complaining, it was returned to me repaired with no charge based on their managers research of my communications with them. I used it for a couple of months and it died again with a power supply issue and I had to get it repaired again. After that I sold it. As I was troubleshooting it and popped the top their was so much electronical componentry inside that no wonder it was an oven. That kinda freaked me out towards Focusrite ISA. Maybe my experience was isolated but compared to my CAPI pre's that were a lot more simple, sound great and never gave me problems I just moved on.
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