|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jul 4, 2021 6:58:06 GMT -6
I have two sets of monitors (Atomic SixTens and Amphion One15’s) and I am needing a second pair of speaker monitor stands. I built a pair of stands for my One15’s out of sand filled PVC. The Atomic SixTens are substantially more heavy, weighing close to 75lbs each! I was looking at the height adjustable Sound Anchors, but they are expensive and very backordered. I wanted to bounce some ideas off you guys.
The ideal speaker stand will add mass and dampen resonance, right?
Mass
I added mass to my current DIY stands by filling the PVC pipes with sand. Wouldn't filling them with concrete (hardened) add more mass? Does hardened concrete have resonance as opposed to sand?
The Atomic monitors have mass built in. They are essentially a cabinet built within a cabinet, with the idea to make the cabinets heavy enough to be inert. If this is the case, then wouldn’t this lessen the need for such mass in a stand?
Coupling
What about coupling? With my One15’s, I use Isoacoustic’s on the stands, which are on carpet. Do I need to decouple the stands from the carpet with spikes? I know the Sound Anchors have spikes along with sorbobane on the plates. So that’s double decoupling, right? Should I follow suite?
My Plan for the heavy Atomics
I think I’ll either go with some cinder blocks OR DIY PVC stands. I’ll use the biggest PVC I can get (which looks like 3”) and either fill with sand or concrete, spikes on the bottom plate, sorbothane pucks on the top.
So, I’m short, my questions for the heavy (inert) Atomic SixTens:
1. Sand or concrete (dry vs hardened?) filled?
2. Spikes on bottom plate?
3. Sorbothane pucks on top?
|
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Jul 4, 2021 8:00:29 GMT -6
I use cinderblocks stacked horizontally on top of a small wood base (so I don't scratch my floors). Heavy as fuck and seems to work great. I've always been intrigued though by the ASC attack wall method of basically mounting the speakers on broadband traps. I've thought about trying to make something like that. I suppose your PVC idea would work great for that, building a tube trap around the pvc trap.
|
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jul 4, 2021 9:10:35 GMT -6
I use cinderblocks stacked horizontally on top of a small wood base (so I don't scratch my floors). Heavy as fuck and seems to work great. I've always been intrigued though by the ASC attack wall method of basically mounting the speakers on broadband traps. I've thought about trying to make something like that. I suppose your PVC idea would work great for that, building a tube trap around the pvc trap. Do you have your cinder blocks cemented to each other? Top plate? Is that secured to the cinder blocks? Do you have your cinder blocks wrapped in fabric? |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,936 
|
Post by ericn on Jul 4, 2021 9:13:59 GMT -6
Sand is the standard because it fills all the crevices but doesn’t expand or contract. If you use concrete you might find you got the math wrong and either end up with an air gap or your pipe functions as a mold and cracks. You would need rebar to reinforce the concrete.
Spikes can help with concrete, but spikes don’t really de-couple, they focus the load to 4 very very small points.
Blocks or stands, advantage stands it’s one structure blocks are going to be simply mass coupled to each other, stands will give you greater choice in height.
Advantage Blocks easier to work with and you know they are going to take the load.
What I would do. Neither, get the height right find a local welder and build some simple 4 colum Sound Anchor clones.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Jul 4, 2021 9:35:31 GMT -6
I use cinderblocks stacked horizontally on top of a small wood base (so I don't scratch my floors). Heavy as fuck and seems to work great. I've always been intrigued though by the ASC attack wall method of basically mounting the speakers on broadband traps. I've thought about trying to make something like that. I suppose your PVC idea would work great for that, building a tube trap around the pvc trap. Do you have your cinder blocks cemented to each other? Top plate? Is that secured to the cinder blocks? Do you have your cinder blocks wrapped in fabric? The cinderblocks are laying freely on top of each other. I thought about using motor glue, or whatever its called, but that would make the stands crazy heavy and near impossible to move should I ever need to change rooms etc. At first I was worried they would tip over without gluing them, but they're so damn heavy, you'd have to try and knock them over. The trick is you have to search for really symetrical cinder blocks. Kind of like searching for straight 2x4's...there are little imperfections that can cause two cinder blocks to not sit evenly on each other, causing them to easily pivot. But ones that are nice and flat sit well and really don't move easily at all. I just left them bare, no covering, but I did make sure to really "scrub" them good to get all the loose little pieces of concrete chips and dust that commonly come with cinder blocks. There's no top plate but that's because my speakers are small (A7's and NHT SuperOnes). If I had bigger speakers I'd glue a nice wood top plate to the top. |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 4, 2021 9:43:27 GMT -6
I hate to say it because it comes from my experience as a recovering audiophile. When I had a home theater speaker setup with 5 B&W 805's plus 2 REL subs I had an expensive pair of B&W speaker stands that were hollow for filling with material. I tried them with no filler, then filled with sand, and then with these things I believe were called Power Points. They were little sharp metal triangles. The low end got obviously better and intelligibility improved greatly. I don't know if they're still made, it's been a long time, but hey were definitely well worth the money.
If you use sand, it must be properly dried.
|
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jul 4, 2021 12:02:20 GMT -6
Sand is the standard because it fills all the crevices but doesn’t expand or contract. If you use concrete you might find you got the math wrong and either end up with an air gap or your pipe functions as a mold and cracks. You would need rebar to reinforce the concrete. Spikes can help with concrete, but spikes don’t really de-couple, they focus the load to 4 very very small points. Blocks or stands, advantage stands it’s one structure blocks are going to be simply mass coupled to each other, stands will give you greater choice in height. Advantage Blocks easier to work with and you know they are going to take the load. What I would do. Neither, get the height right find a local welder and build some simple 4 colum Sound Anchor clones. Taking your advice to heart regarding custom making steel stands locally. Any reason why I wouldn’t just go with these? www.standsandmounts.com/vtidfseriescastiron36inchspeakerstandsdf36.aspxI really can’t see it getting much cheaper considering steel parts costs, welding and my own time. |
|
|
|
Post by nudwig on Jul 4, 2021 12:43:19 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jul 4, 2021 13:39:49 GMT -6
Wow. Talk about expensive. And only a 55lb load limit. The Atomics are def heavier than that. |
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Jul 4, 2021 14:07:50 GMT -6
Sand is the standard because it fills all the crevices but doesn’t expand or contract. If you use concrete you might find you got the math wrong and either end up with an air gap or your pipe functions as a mold and cracks. You would need rebar to reinforce the concrete. Spikes can help with concrete, but spikes don’t really de-couple, they focus the load to 4 very very small points. Blocks or stands, advantage stands it’s one structure blocks are going to be simply mass coupled to each other, stands will give you greater choice in height. Advantage Blocks easier to work with and you know they are going to take the load. What I would do. Neither, get the height right find a local welder and build some simple 4 colum Sound Anchor clones. Taking your advice to heart regarding custom making steel stands locally. Any reason why I wouldn’t just go with these? www.standsandmounts.com/vtidfseriescastiron36inchspeakerstandsdf36.aspxI really can’t see it getting much cheaper considering steel parts costs, welding and my own time. These don't look bad, considering the price. I'd be interested in hearing more. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,936
|
Post by ericn on Jul 4, 2021 14:41:20 GMT -6
Sand is the standard because it fills all the crevices but doesn’t expand or contract. If you use concrete you might find you got the math wrong and either end up with an air gap or your pipe functions as a mold and cracks. You would need rebar to reinforce the concrete. Spikes can help with concrete, but spikes don’t really de-couple, they focus the load to 4 very very small points. Blocks or stands, advantage stands it’s one structure blocks are going to be simply mass coupled to each other, stands will give you greater choice in height. Advantage Blocks easier to work with and you know they are going to take the load. What I would do. Neither, get the height right find a local welder and build some simple 4 colum Sound Anchor clones. Taking your advice to heart regarding custom making steel stands locally. Any reason why I wouldn’t just go with these? www.standsandmounts.com/vtidfseriescastiron36inchspeakerstandsdf36.aspxI really can’t see it getting much cheaper considering steel parts costs, welding and my own time. Not bad but for the atomic’s I would prefer these just for the stability of multiple supports. Still nice find! |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,936
|
Post by ericn on Jul 4, 2021 14:43:27 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by nudwig on Jul 4, 2021 15:26:30 GMT -6
Wow. Talk about expensive. And only a 55lb load limit. The Atomics are def heavier than that. Whoops, wrong link, I sent the lighter weight budget version... this is the one you need www.northward-systems.com/product/type-50-250/. My speakers are 1kg over the limit so I'd also have to go with this one |
|
|
|
Post by sean on Jul 4, 2021 15:48:43 GMT -6
I hate to say it because it comes from my experience as a recovering audiophile. When I had a home theater speaker setup with 5 B&W 805's plus 2 REL subs I had an expensive pair of B&W speaker stands that were hollow for filling with material. I tried them with no filler, then filled with sand, and then with these things I believe were called Power Points. They were little sharp metal triangles. The low end got obviously better and intelligibility improved greatly. I don't know if they're still made, it's been a long time, but hey were definitely well worth the money. If you use sand, it must be properly dried. Are you thinking of Atabites? |
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jul 4, 2021 17:04:27 GMT -6
Wow. Talk about expensive. And only a 55lb load limit. The Atomics are def heavier than that. Whoops, wrong link, I sent the lighter weight budget version... this is the one you need www.northward-systems.com/product/type-50-250/. My speakers are 1kg over the limit so I'd also have to go with this one Hahahaha!!! Nope. |
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jul 4, 2021 17:46:43 GMT -6
That’s just about perfect. So, what’s the catch? Less than 200 delivered for steel 3 pole heavy duty speaker stands? |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,936
|
Post by ericn on Jul 4, 2021 18:17:44 GMT -6
That’s just about perfect. So, what’s the catch? Less than 200 delivered for steel 3 pole heavy duty speaker stands? Ha yeah at first that was my thought! The thing is these are probably made in China in batches vs Sound Anchors made to order. Hell the company that probably OEM’s these things probably builds 101 non audio related products. |
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jul 4, 2021 20:39:02 GMT -6
That’s just about perfect. So, what’s the catch? Less than 200 delivered for steel 3 pole heavy duty speaker stands? Ha yeah at first that was my thought! The thing is these are probably made in China in batches vs Sound Anchors made to order. Hell the company that probably OEM’s these things probably builds 101 non audio related products. My first thought was one of guilt and shame about purchasing these over USA made Sound Anchors. Then I thought about all of the other made in China gear that we all have in our racks and mic lockers. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,936
|
Post by ericn on Jul 4, 2021 20:48:35 GMT -6
Ha yeah at first that was my thought! The thing is these are probably made in China in batches vs Sound Anchors made to order. Hell the company that probably OEM’s these things probably builds 101 non audio related products. My first thought was one of guilt and shame about purchasing these over USA made Sound Anchors. Then I thought about all of the other made in China gear that we all have in our racks and mic lockers. Yeah, while my first preference is an American manufacturer, but honestly most components are made in China so at this point it’s find something I like and buy it. |
|
|
|
Post by OtisGreying on Jul 4, 2021 21:22:43 GMT -6
I use cinderblocks as well for my PMC Result6s. Stacked vertically they are basically naked except for a fabric between the actual speaker and top block. Seems to work pretty good!
|
|
|
|
Post by Bat Lanyard on Jul 4, 2021 21:27:14 GMT -6
Understood on the backorder and pandemic delay, but Sound Anchors make a huge difference. At least they did for my setup.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 4, 2021 21:28:12 GMT -6
Sean said, " are you thinking of Atabites?
No, but it was something similar. It may not even be available anymore. This was around 20-25 years ago.
They were little miniature metal triangles. I think steel, they were sharp as hell.
|
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jul 5, 2021 5:36:05 GMT -6
Understood on the backorder and pandemic delay, but Sound Anchors make a huge difference. At least they did for my setup. The thing I’m asking myself, though, is that given that the Atomics have a multilayer design (cabinet within a cabinet) making the SixTens inert, would the Sound Anchors have as big of an impact? |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,936
|
Post by ericn on Jul 5, 2021 8:36:52 GMT -6
Understood on the backorder and pandemic delay, but Sound Anchors make a huge difference. At least they did for my setup. The thing I’m asking myself, though, is that given that the Atomics have a multilayer design (cabinet within a cabinet) making the SixTens inert, would the Sound Anchors have as big of an impact? The bigger the heavier and lower a speaker goes the more important a good stand becomes. |
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 5, 2021 8:49:05 GMT -6
Mass lowers the sympathetic vibration frequency, but hardness can transfer higher frequencies. It's a balance. Sand has the benefit of mass but without the hardness and the small particles dissipate vibrations.
|
|
