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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 3, 2021 11:16:16 GMT -6
What's the skinny?
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Post by mythundreamt on Jul 3, 2021 12:01:20 GMT -6
Fitting time for me to take a stab at answering. I just went through this.
5088? As Borat would say, “is niice!” and I think that sums it up. It’s not perfect. Some of its pros and cons:
Pros
- Fantastic option for creating the ultimate mix console, probably the best available, but with some serious cons
- Sonic bliss if you like clean, modern, precise audio with the option of some trafo coloration (Silk)
- infinite headroom thanks to 90V rails that makes mixing more effortless than ever
- VERY customizable as far as input channels and footprint go
- RND really feels like a great company of great people (I’ve met them)
- the aux return and group implementation (including inserts on groups) is quite nice
Cons (to me at least)
- input channels aren’t actually a part of the console at all! It’s a line mixer at heart; and you can put whatever you want in the (optional) penthouse as preamps etc but they’re separate as far as the console circuitry goes
- input channels don’t have inserts. The idea again is that all your input circuitry/coloration is decided before hitting the mixer channels, so for example there is no channel direct out for tracking. I find this very different from my idea of a recording console, but it makes sense if one assumes that people have their input pres and outboard already decided. I think of it for this reason as a mix console. Not that you can’t track with it, obvi.
- its expensive when comparing it like-for-like feature set with its competitors (the rest include pre+eq for the same price and same channel count, give or take)
- if the price were to justifiable by superior circuitry that would make sense, but even in the circuitry pictures on their website you can see ICs and cheaper-than-the-best input transformers. If the price is purely because of the brand name or vaunted user base, that hurts the no-name buyer
Source: I spend a lot of time on a collaborators 32ch 5088, and spoke to RND about doing a small one for myself and ultimately went with a different product that gave me much of an old skool tracking console for a similar price as a very base model 5088
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 3, 2021 12:09:19 GMT -6
Fitting time for me to take a stab at answering. I just went through this. 5088? As Borat would say, “is niice!” and I think that sums it up. It’s not perfect. Some of its pros and cons: Pros - Fantastic option for creating the ultimate mix console, probably the best available, but with some serious cons - Sonic bliss if you like clean, modern, precise audio with the option of some trafo coloration (Silk) - infinite headroom thanks to 90V rails that makes mixing more effortless than ever - VERY customizable as far as input channels and footprint go - RND really feels like a great company of great people (I’ve met them) - the aux return and group implementation (including inserts on groups) is quite nice Cons (to me at least) - input channels aren’t actually a part of the console at all! It’s a line mixer at heart; and you can put whatever you want in the (optional) penthouse as preamps etc but they’re separate as far as the console circuitry goes - input channels don’t have inserts. The idea again is that all your input circuitry/coloration is decided before hitting the mixer channels, so for example there is no channel direct out for tracking. I find this very different from my idea of a recording console, but it makes sense if one assumes that people have their input pres and outboard already decided. I think of it for this reason as a mix console. Not that you can’t track with it, obvi. - its expensive when comparing it like-for-like feature set with its competitors (the rest include pre+eq for the same price and same channel count, give or take) - if the price were to justifiable by superior circuitry that would make sense, but even in the circuitry pictures on their website you can see ICs and cheaper-than-the-best input transformers. If the price is purely because of the brand name or vaunted user base, that hurts the no-name buyer Source: I spend a lot of time on a collaborators 32ch 5088, and spoke to RND about doing a small one for myself and ultimately went with a different product that gave me much of an old skool tracking console for a similar price as a very base model 5088 What did you end up with? |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 3, 2021 12:13:50 GMT -6
Iron age?
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Post by mythundreamt on Jul 3, 2021 12:21:23 GMT -6
Anyone else feel like the day Iron Age delivers their first console will be the start of the New Era of audio recording technology?
I got a small Wunderbar.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 3, 2021 12:47:05 GMT -6
Anyone else feel like the day Iron Age delivers their first console will be the start of the New Era of audio recording technology? I got a small Wunderbar. Nothing gets me more hard than a Wunderbar. Sexiest looking console on the market. 😍😍 |
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Post by nudwig on Jul 3, 2021 12:56:04 GMT -6
My buddy had a Wunderbar, tracking drums with it was a dream.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 3, 2021 13:16:42 GMT -6
Anyone else feel like the day Iron Age delivers their first console will be the start of the New Era of audio recording technology? I got a small Wunderbar. All the auxes on there mono? Can Neve/Heritage 80 series modules be used in there? |
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Post by mythundreamt on Jul 3, 2021 14:42:51 GMT -6
Anyone else feel like the day Iron Age delivers their first console will be the start of the New Era of audio recording technology? I got a small Wunderbar. All the auxes on there mono? Can Neve/Heritage 80 series modules be used in there? Yes and yes. Four mono auxes and 80 series modules pop right in and look darn good in it to boot. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 3, 2021 22:27:09 GMT -6
When I was staff at rubber tracks there was a 5088 there. Extraordinary desk. Wonderful for tracking. Pres sound excellent, eqs are great (if a little less flexible than I’d like). I think that board is still there, sitting unused all these years. Breaks the damn heart.....
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Post by guitfiddler on Jul 4, 2021 1:28:21 GMT -6
Dweezil Zappa has this 5088 board loaded with 1081’s and 1073’s, killer sounding board! Yeah, it definitely has its qwerks, but it’s a fantastic sounding board. I would look at API’s offerings for the money. That’s just me. What ever happened to that CAPI console? That’s what I was waiting for! The 5088 has 90 volt rails, really?!!!!! It’s a furnace!!! It’s a work of art, and with those VU meters at the top! Damn fine looking board! That 5088 board just owns inspiration!!!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 4, 2021 6:16:46 GMT -6
When I was staff at rubber tracks there was a 5088 there. Extraordinary desk. Wonderful for tracking. Pres sound excellent, eqs are great (if a little less flexible than I’d like). I think that board is still there, sitting unused all these years. Breaks the damn heart..... Who do I gotta talk to about getting the rubber tracks board? Maybe they'd sell it cheap... |
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Post by srb on Jul 4, 2021 8:30:39 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 4, 2021 9:43:19 GMT -6
I've got an offer in, so we'll see what happens. Does look beautiful. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 4, 2021 9:47:19 GMT -6
Fitting time for me to take a stab at answering. I just went through this. 5088? As Borat would say, “is niice!” and I think that sums it up. It’s not perfect. Some of its pros and cons: Pros - Fantastic option for creating the ultimate mix console, probably the best available, but with some serious cons - Sonic bliss if you like clean, modern, precise audio with the option of some trafo coloration (Silk) - infinite headroom thanks to 90V rails that makes mixing more effortless than ever - VERY customizable as far as input channels and footprint go - RND really feels like a great company of great people (I’ve met them) - the aux return and group implementation (including inserts on groups) is quite nice Cons (to me at least) - input channels aren’t actually a part of the console at all! It’s a line mixer at heart; and you can put whatever you want in the (optional) penthouse as preamps etc but they’re separate as far as the console circuitry goes - input channels don’t have inserts. The idea again is that all your input circuitry/coloration is decided before hitting the mixer channels, so for example there is no channel direct out for tracking. I find this very different from my idea of a recording console, but it makes sense if one assumes that people have their input pres and outboard already decided. I think of it for this reason as a mix console. Not that you can’t track with it, obvi. - its expensive when comparing it like-for-like feature set with its competitors (the rest include pre+eq for the same price and same channel count, give or take) - if the price were to justifiable by superior circuitry that would make sense, but even in the circuitry pictures on their website you can see ICs and cheaper-than-the-best input transformers. If the price is purely because of the brand name or vaunted user base, that hurts the no-name buyer Source: I spend a lot of time on a collaborators 32ch 5088, and spoke to RND about doing a small one for myself and ultimately went with a different product that gave me much of an old skool tracking console for a similar price as a very base model 5088 The modularity for me is actually a plus. I've got a decent selection of outboard gear already and having an easy way to incorporate that cleanly is appealing. The ability to add an expander in the future is also a plus. It's really between this and the 1608 for me right now, and this is in the lead, as long as we can make the price work. The 4 stereo auxes are a dynamite feature for tracking off the board. |
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Post by mythundreamt on Jul 4, 2021 11:02:52 GMT -6
Fitting time for me to take a stab at answering. I just went through this. 5088? As Borat would say, “is niice!” and I think that sums it up. It’s not perfect. Some of its pros and cons: Pros - Fantastic option for creating the ultimate mix console, probably the best available, but with some serious cons - Sonic bliss if you like clean, modern, precise audio with the option of some trafo coloration (Silk) - infinite headroom thanks to 90V rails that makes mixing more effortless than ever - VERY customizable as far as input channels and footprint go - RND really feels like a great company of great people (I’ve met them) - the aux return and group implementation (including inserts on groups) is quite nice Cons (to me at least) - input channels aren’t actually a part of the console at all! It’s a line mixer at heart; and you can put whatever you want in the (optional) penthouse as preamps etc but they’re separate as far as the console circuitry goes - input channels don’t have inserts. The idea again is that all your input circuitry/coloration is decided before hitting the mixer channels, so for example there is no channel direct out for tracking. I find this very different from my idea of a recording console, but it makes sense if one assumes that people have their input pres and outboard already decided. I think of it for this reason as a mix console. Not that you can’t track with it, obvi. - its expensive when comparing it like-for-like feature set with its competitors (the rest include pre+eq for the same price and same channel count, give or take) - if the price were to justifiable by superior circuitry that would make sense, but even in the circuitry pictures on their website you can see ICs and cheaper-than-the-best input transformers. If the price is purely because of the brand name or vaunted user base, that hurts the no-name buyer Source: I spend a lot of time on a collaborators 32ch 5088, and spoke to RND about doing a small one for myself and ultimately went with a different product that gave me much of an old skool tracking console for a similar price as a very base model 5088 The modularity for me is actually a plus. I've got a decent selection of outboard gear already and having an easy way to incorporate that cleanly is appealing. The ability to add an expander in the future is also a plus. It's really between this and the 1608 for me right now, and this is in the lead, as long as we can make the price work. The 4 stereo auxes are a dynamite feature for tracking off the board. Yeah the modularity is pretty clever, even if it does jar with my idea of how a console is a single entity - an analogy in the elec guitar world might be how a rackmount pre + tube power amp can be used rather than a single hand wired head, more modular more options sure. It’s probably a nicer sounding console than a 1608, yeah. I’ve owned a Box and a vintage API sidecar and they did wonderful things, but a 5088 is more at the API Legacy level. Like you, for me a Wunderbar is the most attractive console I’ve ever seen. If an equivalently spec’d 5088 wasn’t so much more (basically if the 5052s were included in the asking price), I would have been hella torn or even just gone RND. Good luck with the deal! |
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Post by jmoose on Jul 4, 2021 20:33:25 GMT -6
Fitting time for me to take a stab at answering. I just went through this. 5088? As Borat would say, “is niice!” and I think that sums it up. It’s not perfect. Some of its pros and cons: The modularity for me is actually a plus. I've got a decent selection of outboard gear already and having an easy way to incorporate that cleanly is appealing. The ability to add an expander in the future is also a plus. It's really between this and the 1608 for me right now, and this is in the lead, as long as we can make the price work. The 4 stereo auxes are a dynamite feature for tracking off the board. But your not actually mixing on the desk? Said your ITB? So tracking mostly? 5088 is a unique desk. Routing & architecture isn't really like other large frame consoles. After a long go round I came to think of the 5088 as a split console... but instead of a left right split with the jukebox returns on the right... the jukebox is the desk itself and the input modules are the tracking side which is up top. Put it this way. Feels kinda odd to set levels & blends on drums but not actually touch a fader. Much more like outboard gear integrated into a patchbay then a cohesive desk experience. Hard to add to pro con list there... only a few things. The massive headroom is double edged IMO. Desk is clean and quiet... but maybe a little too clean for rock & roll. There's not much tone or found sound to be had. Great if you want a clean canvas to add layers on, but a base layer of color? Not there. Likewise the amount of headroom is bad for guys like me who boost a lot & are headroom challenged to begin with. There's enough clean output on tap to blow up whatever the next stage is from any output of the desk. Can I mention routing again? For a 32 channel desk with 24 preamps it seems like enough but I was constantly running out of inputs on both tracking & mixing sides. It's a good desk for sure. Obviously. Very clean & modern sounding... maybe to a fault... but if you can hang with the funky routing it handles tracking & mixing duties well without really catering to one or the other. |
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Post by robschnapf on Jul 7, 2021 13:39:47 GMT -6
That new API stuff does not sound like API to me.
They own the name but it’s the equivalent to what Ampeg is.
It’s brand familiarity.
Not saying that new is bad and old is good just saying
That if you like classic API desks this new stuff won’t get you there.
If you love an old SVT by an old one…..
Now back to RND
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 7, 2021 15:27:26 GMT -6
The modularity for me is actually a plus. I've got a decent selection of outboard gear already and having an easy way to incorporate that cleanly is appealing. The ability to add an expander in the future is also a plus. It's really between this and the 1608 for me right now, and this is in the lead, as long as we can make the price work. The 4 stereo auxes are a dynamite feature for tracking off the board. But your not actually mixing on the desk? Said your ITB? So tracking mostly? 5088 is a unique desk. Routing & architecture isn't really like other large frame consoles. After a long go round I came to think of the 5088 as a split console... but instead of a left right split with the jukebox returns on the right... the jukebox is the desk itself and the input modules are the tracking side which is up top. Put it this way. Feels kinda odd to set levels & blends on drums but not actually touch a fader. Much more like outboard gear integrated into a patchbay then a cohesive desk experience. Hard to add to pro con list there... only a few things. The massive headroom is double edged IMO. Desk is clean and quiet... but maybe a little too clean for rock & roll. There's not much tone or found sound to be had. Great if you want a clean canvas to add layers on, but a base layer of color? Not there. Likewise the amount of headroom is bad for guys like me who boost a lot & are headroom challenged to begin with. There's enough clean output on tap to blow up whatever the next stage is from any output of the desk. Can I mention routing again? For a 32 channel desk with 24 preamps it seems like enough but I was constantly running out of inputs on both tracking & mixing sides. It's a good desk for sure. Obviously. Very clean & modern sounding... maybe to a fault... but if you can hang with the funky routing it handles tracking & mixing duties well without really catering to one or the other. Yep, I mix ITB. Mainly going to be used for tracking unless someone wants to pay a premium for OTB mixing. I feel like I'm using enough outboard during the tracking process that I'll be able to get the color where I want it. The idea of tracking through something cleaner than my old Midas is appealing. While I do mostly rock oriented stuff, I feel like the 5088 will give me the flexibility to use the gear I want to use, have 4 stereo analog headphone mixes, and have the option to expand down the line as funds allow. Seems like a win for me. Playing the waiting game right now though. Hopefully, will have some news soon. Also, FWIW, I've had emails to RND answered promptly and concisely, even when they know I'm considering used board. They seem to be a good company and should be around for a long while, even without Rupert at the helm. I was also considering a L*********r board and I just don't have that same level of confidence in the brand as a whole for long term support. And I'm not saying they aren't good. When I spoke with the owner at AES a couple years ago, he was great, but I have fear in a "newcomer", if that makes sense, at least with a purchase this big. I LOVE supporting the little guys when I can, but I feel like something like this needs to be with one of the big ones. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 7, 2021 15:41:37 GMT -6
I only ever tracked on the 5088 (sessions at rubber tracks weren't really conducive to mixing) and i gotta say: it's a great tracking desk and an excellent front end. That particular machine was loaded up with RND pre/eq modules, which it sounds like you'd be forgoing, but even when i patched in the outboard there was a pretty unmistakeable box tone that the desk imparted. It's classy and smooth and sounds expensive. Kinda like a good vintage neve desk but with more open HF extension (or like, a fresh re-capping job? haha). Got similar vibes to when i worked on the 8088 at water music, if you're at all familiar with their desk...
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Post by jmoose on Jul 7, 2021 17:07:33 GMT -6
It's classy and smooth and sounds expensive. Kinda like a good vintage neve desk but with more open HF extension (or like, a fresh re-capping job? haha). Got similar vibes to when i worked on the 8088 at water music, if you're at all familiar with their desk... I've spent time at Water Music... they were just up the road from me. Were = past tense. For anyone who isn't aware Water closed a handful of years ago and that 8088 is now at Bunker Studios in Brooklyn. The building Water occupied was also sold with urban homogenization plans now set. --- Years after the closure of Rob Grenoble's studio and sale of the property, Water Music’s top-of-the-line recording studio is all cleared out—making way for architect John Nastasi’s creative reuse of the location. --- www.tapinto.net/towns/hoboken/sections/economic-development/articles/redevelopment-plan-floated-for-hoboken-s-legendary-water-music-studiosThe loss is real. Water was one of the last "big room" freelancer friendly studios in northern NJ... there's nothing behind it or that has opened to take its place. Could easily derail here into the sad state of the metro NY/NJ studio scene... I'll just say its easier to bring projects upstate then to Brooklyn. Anywhoo! The 5088 is a much cleaner sounding desk. More bandwidth for sure. Higher highs lower lows. Also mixing? Headroom? Its more consistent. The tone of the 5088 doesn't change as you push it and load up the 2 mix. Headroom just goes & goes until "poof" - it hard clips and sounds like nasty digital distortion. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 7, 2021 17:35:29 GMT -6
It's classy and smooth and sounds expensive. Kinda like a good vintage neve desk but with more open HF extension (or like, a fresh re-capping job? haha). Got similar vibes to when i worked on the 8088 at water music, if you're at all familiar with their desk... I've spent time at Water Music... they were just up the road from me. Were = past tense. For anyone who isn't aware Water closed a handful of years ago and that 8088 is now at Bunker Studios in Brooklyn. The building Water occupied was also sold with urban homogenization plans now set. --- Years after the closure of Rob Grenoble's studio and sale of the property, Water Music’s top-of-the-line recording studio is all cleared out—making way for architect John Nastasi’s creative reuse of the location. --- www.tapinto.net/towns/hoboken/sections/economic-development/articles/redevelopment-plan-floated-for-hoboken-s-legendary-water-music-studiosThe loss is real. Water was one of the last "big room" freelancer friendly studios in northern NJ... there's nothing behind it or that has opened to take its place. Could easily derail here into the sad state of the metro NY/NJ studio scene... I'll just say its easier to bring projects upstate then to Brooklyn. Anywhoo! The 5088 is a much cleaner sounding desk. More bandwidth for sure. Higher highs lower lows. Also mixing? Headroom? Its more consistent. The tone of the 5088 doesn't change as you push it and load up the 2 mix. Headroom just goes & goes until "poof" - it hard clips and sounds like nasty digital distortion. Something about that neve at water always felt a bit more open and 'hifi' to me, as compared to the other neves i've worked on. Almost sounded like its class a/b 33115/1081 brethren (which i personally have always LOVED). The desk here in town at Q is fabulous but is decidedly grungier (in a good way) than the water desk, despite their shared '68 heritage / 31102s. And the desk at Joe Perry's spot, when I worked with Aerosmith, was an INCREDIBLE 8014, all class a with 1066s, incredibly fat and MASSIVE color. Just a stupidly great sounding machine. :sigh: Er...what were we talking about again? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2021 18:14:52 GMT -6
^ Yes, the 8088 has Class A/B output line amps (3415), same as the 53 series, 8078 and Melbourn
whereas the 8014 is all 1272's. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 7, 2021 19:59:36 GMT -6
^ Yes, the 8088 has Class A/B output line amps (3415), same as the 53 series, 8078 and Melbourn
whereas the 8014 is all 1272's. Aha! There ya have it. Thanks! |
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