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Post by RealNoob on Jul 1, 2021 21:18:58 GMT -6
I had run SW4 with Presonus Scepter 8's and a sub. It seemed to do really well. Translation was brainless.
I did notice that above the really low end, everything was +/- 3db. I realized my sub was too hot - if I reduced it, the amount of correction needed would be very minor.
I just picked up a pair of Focal Shape 65's. I adjusted the sub to match and it all seems really flat and revealing. i'm considering not using SW4 as it does tonal balancing only. Seems strange now to setup the hard ware and think - I likely won't do any correction. Ever been there?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 1, 2021 21:44:04 GMT -6
The problem with room correction is it only takes into account frequency response and EQ. Well unfortunately for us there is so much more speakers suck at! If it works it works, shut up and run with itđ but Iâll admit I would still give the correction software a shot because you never know! I love software correction on subs,itâs just easier and cheaper than working on room treatments and more treatment would blow my speaker collection budget!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2021 7:34:01 GMT -6
I wouldnât mix without it.
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Post by seawell on Jul 2, 2021 9:12:52 GMT -6
I have a pair of Focal Twin 6BE with an Adam Sub 10. I tried sonarworks extensively and always preferred mixing without it. My room is well treated and I really like the Focals so maybe there wasnât much to gain by using sonarworks? Not sure, but thereâs my 2 cents đ
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 2, 2021 9:46:00 GMT -6
I never mix without SW doesnât matter which monitor or which room it always translates better. Recommended it to three colleagues and they all say they love it ⌠to me the best monitoring compromise ever.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 2, 2021 11:13:00 GMT -6
Iâve used IK Arc for years but never SW. I can say that if it helps, and how much is highly dependent on your speakers and room. I donât use it anymore as I feel I âknowâ my room better without it.
Regarding your sub, I use REW to balance my sub and what Iâve learned is that the louder the sub, the bigger the peaks and nulls in the low end. Makes sense when you think about it, turning up the volume increases the amplitude. I also learned that small adjustments in placement and orientation can make a huge deal in the low end response. Turning my sub 90 degrees dramatically improved a low end null.
So yeah, with your new setup I wouldnât be surprised if you no longer need SW. Iâd still try it out though. Even it gets you a 5% improvement that would be worth it.
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Post by RealNoob on Jul 2, 2021 12:06:18 GMT -6
Iâve used IK Arc for years but never SW. I can say that if it helps, and how much is highly dependent on your speakers and room. I donât use it anymore as I feel I âknowâ my room better without it. Regarding your sub, I use REW to balance my sub and what Iâve learned is that the louder the sub, the bigger the peaks and nulls in the low end. Makes sense when you think about it, turning up the volume increases the amplitude. I also learned that small adjustments in placement and orientation can make a huge deal in the low end response. Turning my sub 90 degrees dramatically improved a low end null. So yeah, with your new setup I wouldnât be surprised if you no longer need SW. Iâd still try it out though. Even it gets you a 5% improvement that would be worth it. good points. i run my tops full range and the sub has a band pass which I turn down to 50-60hz. I don't hit it much as I can't stand the overlap that usually happens creating mud and boomy bass guitar
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 2, 2021 17:03:31 GMT -6
Funny this thread came up. I finally ran Sonarworks on my ATC's today, after not using at all since I got them in February. It definitely figures out what's up with the speakers in the room, but I'm not so sure I dig the results this time! The ATC's (SCM12) have a pretty smooth bass rolloff. Sonarworks decided to boost up the bass to keep it flat, and they just sounded bloated. The ATC's also can be a little on the dark side. Sonarworks boosted a little high end which I liked, but it seemed to kill the depth on the speakers. The only thing I liked that it did was clear up the 100-200 range which can get a little hairy in my room. Wondering if I can just run an eq on the speakers to simulate what it's doing. I really did love it when I had the big EVE's here. But those were too big for my room and caused all kinds of problems. I've been really happy with the translation of the ATC's so I kinda feel like I may not really need it here. I was tempted to run it after all these months, when I was struggling with a punk rock tune I was working on. I think that 100-200 cleanup is really helpful, but no so sure I need to run Sonarworks to fix it!
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 2, 2021 17:16:46 GMT -6
Funny this thread came up. I finally ran Sonarworks on my ATC's today, after not using at all since I got them in February. It definitely figures out what's up with the speakers in the room, but I'm not so sure I dig the results this time! The ATC's (SCM12) have a pretty smooth bass rolloff. Sonarworks decided to boost up the bass to keep it flat, and they just sounded bloated. The ATC's also can be a little on the dark side. Sonarworks boosted a little high end which I liked, but it seemed to kill the depth on the speakers. The only thing I liked that it did was clear up the 100-200 range which can get a little hairy in my room. Wondering if I can just run an eq on the speakers to simulate what it's doing. I really did love it when I had the big EVE's here. But those were too big for my room and caused all kinds of problems. I've been really happy with the translation of the ATC's so I kinda feel like I may not really need it here. I was tempted to run it after all these months, when I was struggling with a punk rock tune I was working on. I think that 100-200 cleanup is really helpful, but no so sure I need to run Sonarworks to fix it! Thatâs what I love about Dirac, the ability to hone in on a specific range.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2021 17:20:28 GMT -6
You can do that in Sound ID
But if the speakers sound bloated, doesnât that mean your mix sounds bloated?
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 2, 2021 18:26:34 GMT -6
You can do that in Sound ID But if the speakers sound bloated, doesnât that mean your mix sounds bloated? I was just listening to Tidal. Sound ID is a different program though right?
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Post by RealNoob on Jul 2, 2021 18:38:38 GMT -6
Funny this thread came up. I finally ran Sonarworks on my ATC's today, after not using at all since I got them in February. It definitely figures out what's up with the speakers in the room, but I'm not so sure I dig the results this time! The ATC's (SCM12) have a pretty smooth bass rolloff. Sonarworks decided to boost up the bass to keep it flat, and they just sounded bloated. The ATC's also can be a little on the dark side. Sonarworks boosted a little high end which I liked, but it seemed to kill the depth on the speakers. The only thing I liked that it did was clear up the 100-200 range which can get a little hairy in my room. Wondering if I can just run an eq on the speakers to simulate what it's doing. I really did love it when I had the big EVE's here. But those were too big for my room and caused all kinds of problems. I've been really happy with the translation of the ATC's so I kinda feel like I may not really need it here. I was tempted to run it after all these months, when I was struggling with a punk rock tune I was working on. I think that 100-200 cleanup is really helpful, but no so sure I need to run Sonarworks to fix it! With the new edition, you can select certain freq ranges to be affected and leave others alone. With some of the responses here, I was encouraged to upgrade for $50 and give it a whirl. Will see.
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Post by gwlee7 on Jul 2, 2021 18:47:46 GMT -6
Since I am not all that skilled at mixing in the first place, it will be interesting to see what kind of feedback you guys give me now that I have purchased Sound ID.
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 2, 2021 18:57:21 GMT -6
Funny this thread came up. I finally ran Sonarworks on my ATC's today, after not using at all since I got them in February. It definitely figures out what's up with the speakers in the room, but I'm not so sure I dig the results this time! The ATC's (SCM12) have a pretty smooth bass rolloff. Sonarworks decided to boost up the bass to keep it flat, and they just sounded bloated. The ATC's also can be a little on the dark side. Sonarworks boosted a little high end which I liked, but it seemed to kill the depth on the speakers. The only thing I liked that it did was clear up the 100-200 range which can get a little hairy in my room. Wondering if I can just run an eq on the speakers to simulate what it's doing. I really did love it when I had the big EVE's here. But those were too big for my room and caused all kinds of problems. I've been really happy with the translation of the ATC's so I kinda feel like I may not really need it here. I was tempted to run it after all these months, when I was struggling with a punk rock tune I was working on. I think that 100-200 cleanup is really helpful, but no so sure I need to run Sonarworks to fix it! With the new edition, you can select certain freq ranges to be affected and leave others alone. With some of the responses here, I was encouraged to upgrade for $50 and give it a whirl. Will see. Thatâs good to know! Thanks for the info.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2021 19:10:08 GMT -6
Funny this thread came up. I finally ran Sonarworks on my ATC's today, after not using at all since I got them in February. It definitely figures out what's up with the speakers in the room, but I'm not so sure I dig the results this time! The ATC's (SCM12) have a pretty smooth bass rolloff. Sonarworks decided to boost up the bass to keep it flat, and they just sounded bloated. The ATC's also can be a little on the dark side. Sonarworks boosted a little high end which I liked, but it seemed to kill the depth on the speakers. The only thing I liked that it did was clear up the 100-200 range which can get a little hairy in my room. Wondering if I can just run an eq on the speakers to simulate what it's doing. I really did love it when I had the big EVE's here. But those were too big for my room and caused all kinds of problems. I've been really happy with the translation of the ATC's so I kinda feel like I may not really need it here. I was tempted to run it after all these months, when I was struggling with a punk rock tune I was working on. I think that 100-200 cleanup is really helpful, but no so sure I need to run Sonarworks to fix it! Yes it leads to filtered sound and eats headroom ime! Just do this imo Also the smaller non SL driver ATCs are lower distortion by not having bass. If the non SL driver ones had bass, theyâd be just as distorted as everything else. Even the 20 is a compromise compared to the 50. Notice the lower crossover to the same tweeter in the 20? Itâs audible in the 20 but not really in the 50! If you want bass from any ATCs smaller than the 50, boundary load it them or sell it and buy some Questeds haha
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 2, 2021 19:38:14 GMT -6
Funny this thread came up. I finally ran Sonarworks on my ATC's today, after not using at all since I got them in February. It definitely figures out what's up with the speakers in the room, but I'm not so sure I dig the results this time! The ATC's (SCM12) have a pretty smooth bass rolloff. Sonarworks decided to boost up the bass to keep it flat, and they just sounded bloated. The ATC's also can be a little on the dark side. Sonarworks boosted a little high end which I liked, but it seemed to kill the depth on the speakers. The only thing I liked that it did was clear up the 100-200 range which can get a little hairy in my room. Wondering if I can just run an eq on the speakers to simulate what it's doing. I really did love it when I had the big EVE's here. But those were too big for my room and caused all kinds of problems. I've been really happy with the translation of the ATC's so I kinda feel like I may not really need it here. I was tempted to run it after all these months, when I was struggling with a punk rock tune I was working on. I think that 100-200 cleanup is really helpful, but no so sure I need to run Sonarworks to fix it! Yes it leads to filtered sound and eats headroom ime! Just do this imo Also the smaller non SL driver ATCs are lower distortion by not having bass. If the non SL driver ones had bass, theyâd be just as distorted as everything else. Even the 20 is a compromise compared to the 50. Notice the lower crossover to the same tweeter in the 20? Itâs audible in the 20 but not really in the 50! If you want bass from any ATCs smaller than the 50, boundary load it them or sell it and buy some Questeds haha SW ads a save headroom depending on the eq settings. It works great when there are a few weak spots or left right issues. It has its side effects but monitoring is always a big compromise. IMO monitoring at lower SPLs canât solve bigger room issues. Thatâs at least what I experienced taking measurements with REW. For me SW made the job easier. I mic on the MG906 with SW and I check on the NS10 without. Translates good on a broad variety of systemsâŚ
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 2, 2021 19:44:12 GMT -6
Dig that idea in the video!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2021 22:28:05 GMT -6
I should be paid for my proselytizing for SW. It was and is a game-changer for me.
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 2, 2021 22:39:49 GMT -6
I just redid my home setup and, after forgoing SW for a long time, decided to recalibrate it and try again. Glad I did. The cleanup is wonderful.
To compensate for preference / familiarity, I just listened to a bunch of reference material and tweaked SW's settings to my liking. I ended up rolling a db off of the bass, and limiting correction to 6db. Interestingly, zero latency mode sounded better to my ears than the mixed or LP options. After I got that dialed in, I threw together a quick two-hour balance on my own band's material and came to a pretty happy place. Overall, I'm happy to have SW back in my life!
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Post by mcirish on Jul 2, 2021 23:20:15 GMT -6
SW made the most difference for me. My mixes sound right the first time now. I never feel a need to check in the car or anywhere else and it's very rare that the mastering engineer tells me I need any adjustments. I know if doesn't solve all the problems and it eats up headroom. But, it's made a world of difference for me.
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Post by RealNoob on Jul 2, 2021 23:29:51 GMT -6
SW made the most difference for me. My mixes sound right the first time now. I never feel a need to check in the car or anywhere else and it's very rare that the mastering engineer tells me I need any adjustments. I know if doesn't solve all the problems and it eats up headroom. But, it's made a world of difference for me. It did for me with my previous set.
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 3, 2021 6:24:52 GMT -6
Ok, I stand corrected. Played around with it a little more this morning. Made several adjustments to my taste and it's much better. Used the blend control to roll in about 65% Sonarworks and it just nicely cleans things up. Also tamed the limiting controls to 6dB which is a little less extreme. Listening position on, and 48 instead of 44.1 which was a pain in the ass cause all my sessions are at 48. Just gotta get used to the adjustments to the levels on my monitor controller!
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Post by RealNoob on Jul 3, 2021 10:43:43 GMT -6
Well, this seems weird.....
I ran the calibration this morning and it made the shapes brighter - lol. I wouldn't have expected that with Focals. The funny thing is that with two sets of monitors now, I turned them on and thought I was good and reasonably flat. With Presonus Scepters, It revealed a low mid tubbiness that I hadn't recognized until I was able to A/B. As I mentioned - with them, I was within 3db above the sub and to the top. Those corrections were such that I never really heard them. I do think I had a small dip around 2-3K which likely made me mix a bit hard but translation was always great.
Now with the Focals, I see I have a 6db bump at 120hz-ish, a 4-6db null at 800hz and the same at 12-13K. Really strange. I didn't recognize them as being dark until the AB. Funny how that happens. I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts. Looks like I will be using Sound ID.
My tonal reference is always Keith Urban mixes by Justin Neibank. They are very simple and clean and sound more like a tape top end than the modern high end mash. Anything missing or any buildup screams at you. Kiss a girl sounds spot on.
I did switch to linear and dry/wet about 80. That kept it from being too bright.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 3, 2021 12:21:59 GMT -6
I should be paid for my proselytizing for SW. It was and is a game-changer for me. Should be getting mine next week I guess I owe you one, hehe. Excited to see what it's all about.
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Post by RealNoob on Jul 3, 2021 15:17:57 GMT -6
Interestingly, the new version, Sound ID has emulations of Mixcubes and NS11. The cube emu sounds flatter than my cubes.
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