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Post by rowmat on Jun 16, 2021 20:54:05 GMT -6
My mid 2012 MacBook Pro is my only computer since closing our studio and I’m looking at going Mac Mini (probably the next release) along with a decent monitor for a new DAW as I need more screen real estate along with more ‘digital horsepower’.
I’m considering a widescreen probably 4K’ish around 30”.
Not so keen on a superwide curved monitor.
I know some use multiple monitors but I like to keep it to a single.
And of course the only offering from Apple themselves is $10k AUD over here so let’s forget that!
Any thoughts suggestions?
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jun 16, 2021 22:03:07 GMT -6
Still run the Thunderbolt Display 27". Beautiful and cheap used if you can find one.
Would definitely consider the reflections in your setup that might be possible with a larger display, or two for that matter. Just something to consider depending on the room.
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Post by gouge on Jun 16, 2021 22:03:30 GMT -6
I wouldnt write off the super wide monitors so quickly. I think they excell at displaying a lot of information close up.
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Post by phdamage on Jun 16, 2021 22:25:42 GMT -6
I use a comically large (50”) plasma tv a friend gave me. The resolution obviously isn’t amazing but it works just great for me and I think works nicely for attended sessions.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 17, 2021 1:44:56 GMT -6
Amazon’s return policy can be your friend as you can buy, try and return.
I used a new Samsung 4k tv with my m1 mini.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 17, 2021 2:02:27 GMT -6
I already have a 4K 65” Hisense Q8 TV but that’s not going to fit on my desk!
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Post by wiz on Jun 17, 2021 2:07:48 GMT -6
I already have a 4K 65” Hisense Q8 TV but that’s not going to fit on my desk! I bought a Dell S2721Q to go with my Mac M1 mini...I came from a 27" iMac, non retina.... it was around 300-350 Oz bucks... I am really happy. cheers Wiz |
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 17, 2021 3:33:22 GMT -6
27” Slate Raven here not the best resolution but great functionality….
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Post by subspace on Jun 17, 2021 8:15:49 GMT -6
My mid 2012 MacBook Pro is my only computer since closing our studio and I’m looking at going Mac Mini (probably the next release) along with a decent monitor for a new DAW as I need more screen real estate along with more ‘digital horsepower’. I’m considering a widescreen probably 4K’ish around 30”. Not so keen on a superwide curved monitor. I know some use multiple monitors but I like to keep it to a single. And of course the only offering from Apple themselves is $10k AUD over here so let’s forget that! Any thoughts suggestions? I bought a 34" Ultrawide LG monitor at Costco in 2016 because it looked like it would fit perfectly in front of my desk and still be lower than my mains. It dropped right in without having to move anything. I dig the control software it came with that lets you divide it up into multiple view screens, any of which can pop in and out of full screen mode.  |
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Post by RealNoob on Jun 17, 2021 8:41:09 GMT -6
I really like the LG 4K dislays with USB-C inputs. I have 3 27's at home and 3 31's at my office.
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Post by Quint on Jun 17, 2021 8:52:26 GMT -6
So not to drive this too far into the acoustic weeds, what is the potential problem with using a larger screen, like say 70" or something?
If it's mounted on the wall behind or between your monitors, that really shouldn't be all that different from a large window looking into a live room, from a reflection standpoint. And a ton of the best studios in the world have windows which are even much larger than a 70" screen.
Most people seem to be suggesting screens in the 30" range but, if you wanted a larger screen, what's the harm?
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 17, 2021 8:54:48 GMT -6
Don’t you think that every LFC introduced more comp filtering?
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Post by din on Jun 17, 2021 8:57:59 GMT -6
I got a 65" LG TV for Pro Tools and in hindsight I think it was a mistake. Two monitors side by side would have been the better way to go. I need horizontal real estate far more than vertical and that's not what I've got when I split the screen between Edit and Mix windows.
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Post by Quint on Jun 17, 2021 9:00:47 GMT -6
Don’t you think that every LFC introduced more comp filtering? Yeah, consoles create reflection issues. So does a desk of any kind. I was just trying to simply ask, what's the difference between a large window and a large screen, from a reflection standpoint? Seems pretty similar to me. Not that there can't be other reasons someone still might not want a large screen. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 17, 2021 9:07:20 GMT -6
Don’t you think that every LFC introduced more comp filtering? Yeah, consoles create reflection issues. So does a desk of any kind. I was just trying to simply ask, what's the difference between a large window and a large screen, from a reflection standpoint? Seems pretty similar to me. Not that there can't be other reasons someone still might not want a large screen. Not much of a difference really, it’s one of those it depends on the room, the monitors and the set up things. The biggest difference I notice in wall mounted displays isn’t as much the acoustical reflections as vibrations from cheap mounts. |
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Post by Quint on Jun 17, 2021 9:24:03 GMT -6
Yeah, consoles create reflection issues. So does a desk of any kind. I was just trying to simply ask, what's the difference between a large window and a large screen, from a reflection standpoint? Seems pretty similar to me. Not that there can't be other reasons someone still might not want a large screen. Not much of a difference really, it’s one of those it depends on the room, the monitors and the set up things. The biggest difference I notice in wall mounted displays isn’t as much the acoustical reflections as vibrations from cheap mounts. Yeah, the vibrations would be worth considering. I have a wall mount that I was getting ready to use to mount a 65". It has a wall mount with a pneumatic arm that allows the tv to move up or down and forwards or backwards, depending on where I want it vertically and how close I want it to me. Probably up against the wall most of the time, but I might want it closer to me on occasion. I'm gonna give it a shot and see how it goes. Hopefully there are no vibration issues. |
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Post by svart on Jun 17, 2021 9:33:48 GMT -6
So here's the skinny.
The thing that matters the absolute most is how far are you going to sit away from the monitor?
There's multiple pieces at play here. Size, pixel pitch and resolution. They're all relative to each other.
Size+pixel pitch = resolution.
Resolution + pixel pitch = size.
Size + resolution = pixel pitch.
And so on.
A 4K monitor sounds great, unless you sit more than a couple feet away, then you're going to be straining to see things and you're going to end up using enlarged fonts and/or attempt to set a different resolution which will look funky. Either way, you've just negated the reason to go 4K to begin with.
You might want a 32" monitor but if you choose a 1080 panel, the pixel pitch will be so large that if you sit closer than a couple feet it'll look blocky and aliased. However, if you sit more than a few feet away, the relative screen size would be no better than if you chose a 27" and sat closer..
So it absolutely matters the most.
Personally, I've found 4K to be difficult to use for editing, even sitting very closely. I chose to go with 2K and 32" and I sit about 1.5 feet away from the screen and it's perfect. The pixels are small enough to give crisp lines, but the size of the monitor gives me plenty of space to spread things around.
Now, there's also viewing angle, but many monitors simply LIE about their viewing angles. There's almost zero correlation between how a monitor will look compared to another even if their viewing angles are stated to be the same.
Panel type then matters. I think IPS simply slays the rest unless it's an OLED.
Anyway, the monitor I use in the studio is: Lenovo C32q-20
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Post by christopher on Jun 17, 2021 11:15:31 GMT -6
Retina is something I thought I understood but I was wrong, and made a couple bad purchases.
Retina is all about cramming pixels per square inch. It has nothing to do with resolution, just per square inch. So a giant 4K screen maybe uses bigger less expensive pixels? verses a phone has to use the expensive tinier ones. So a Monitor as good as a phone has to have the same or better DPI.
If you are used to seeing a retina screen like I am iPhone/ macbook.. there will be a hit to resolution. It’s annoying that my eyes can type on my phone without issue, but on my Lenovo …text is smeared, aliased, and just not sharp. This relates to DAWs because we are looking at tiny text and numbers. Not a big deal for music, or anything, except typing. But that’s why I got a Lenovo (higher end laptop), to do text stuff, so I feel a little burned. I wish I would have understood that before the purchase. I might still have made it, just lower my expectations some.
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Post by svart on Jun 17, 2021 13:15:10 GMT -6
Retina is something I thought I understood but I was wrong, and made a couple bad purchases. Retina is all about cramming pixels per square inch. It has nothing to do with resolution, just per square inch. So a giant 4K screen maybe uses bigger less expensive pixels? verses a phone has to use the expensive tinier ones. So a Monitor as good as a phone has to have the same or better DPI. If you are used to seeing a retina screen like I am iPhone/ macbook.. there will be a hit to resolution. It’s annoying that my eyes can type on my phone without issue, but on my Lenovo …text is smeared, aliased, and just not sharp. This relates to DAWs because we are looking at tiny text and numbers. Not a big deal for music, or anything, except typing. But that’s why I got a Lenovo (higher end laptop), to do text stuff, so I feel a little burned. I wish I would have understood that before the purchase. I might still have made it, just lower my expectations some. "Retina" is just marketing terminology. It means that you can't discern the pixels at 12" distance and works out to be different values at different sizes. The 27" retina display is stated to be 219ppi, whereas a 4K 27" monitor is about 180ppi, so not vastly different. Since Apple has odd pixel counts for a given resolution, I'm sure there's pixel binning or interpolation happening as well. I'd personally rather have a native resolution monitor. Are you sure you're using the native resolution on the Lenovo? Sure you have all the Windows "True Font" stuff turned off? Windows has a lot of anti-aliasing garbage turned on by default that makes things look smeared. It also has a "calibration" app for the desktop to get things more readable. |
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Post by christopher on Jun 17, 2021 13:55:50 GMT -6
Yeah it’s confusing as hell.. I thought it was a setting for sure! But from experience and hard lesson learned, no matter how close you get to the screen, 4K is pixelated(on my 27” desktop monitor), text is blurry, eyes trying to focus on something that is out of focus. You can see the pixels, they are blocks and there’s nothing you can do about that. 1080 too or whatever 2k on my Lenovo? I can’t remember. Bottom line, to get sharpness up close you need tiny pixels/hi DPI. Retina is simply the marketing term for DPI where you can be up close and not see the pixels. There’s a number in DPI where that happens thenewcode.com/564/Understanding-Pixel-Density-Resolution-and-Retina-DisplaysThe work around (and it works ok) .. don’t be up close, be far enough away the pixels disappear and use scaling to make things bigger. But the further away you get to make that happen, and the more scaling, the less benefit a larger screen is getting you. And so it starts to make sense why Apple has a 5k screen, there’s more to it than trying to be spec winner So for phone or laptop/ something up close, dpi is what really matters, as I discovered on my 2021 laptop, which gives me eye strain when I need to work for hours. I have to teach myself it’s not supposed to be sharp and learn to be ok with it. Blurry text was standard pre-retina anyway. |
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Post by svart on Jun 17, 2021 14:46:22 GMT -6
Yeah it’s confusing as hell.. I thought it was a setting for sure! But from experience and hard lesson learned, no matter how close you get to the screen, 4K is pixelated(on my 27” desktop monitor), text is blurry, eyes trying to focus on something that is out of focus. You can see the pixels, they are blocks and there’s nothing you can do about that. 1080 too or whatever 2k on my Lenovo? I can’t remember. Bottom line, to get sharpness up close you need tiny pixels/hi DPI. Retina is simply the marketing term for DPI where you can be up close and not see the pixels. There’s a number in DPI where that happens thenewcode.com/564/Understanding-Pixel-Density-Resolution-and-Retina-DisplaysThe work around (and it works ok) .. don’t be up close, be far enough away the pixels disappear and use scaling to make things bigger. But the further away you get to make that happen, and the more scaling, the less benefit a larger screen is getting you. And so it starts to make sense why Apple has a 5k screen, there’s more to it than trying to be spec winner So for phone or laptop/ something up close, dpi is what really matters, as I discovered on my 2021 laptop, which gives me eye strain when I need to work for hours. I have to teach myself it’s not supposed to be sharp and learn to be ok with it. Blurry text was standard pre-retina anyway. I have a new-ish 14" HP that has a 2K screen and it's sharp. I certainly don't have any issue with pixelation. My 2K studio monitor and 4K video/gaming monitor don't have any issues with pixelation and I sit about 12" from either one. Unless your lenovo is just broken, I don't see (pun intended) how what you describe is related to the monitor itself. I'd bet you lunch that it ends up being some setting somewhere. |
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Post by christopher on Jun 17, 2021 14:58:17 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Jun 17, 2021 18:32:10 GMT -6
Wow, that does look bad. What's the model? |
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Post by christopher on Jun 18, 2021 9:45:25 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Jun 18, 2021 10:55:28 GMT -6
I see that the screen is spec'd at 1920x1080. At 15" that should be pretty sharp. I checked my HP and it's 1080 and 15" as well, so should be comparable.. And I don't see what you're seeing on my screen, so I don't think it's the resolution itself causing the issue. Have you checked to see what the resolution is actually set to? Anything higher or lower will bin/interpolate pixels and might cause what you're seeing. I know windows has font scaling and anti-aliasing options that you might try turning off or on. I looked to see if they had one of these at the computer store down the street from me that I could look at. Unfortunately they don't have any on display that I could go check out and see if I could cause or fix the problem. |
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