|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 7, 2021 18:44:26 GMT -6
Maybe just stay off the "Pro Audio" forum and stick to "What Are You Working on", "Bourbon", and "Off Topic"? That way you can continue to engage the community, learn some new approaches, and have fun w/o the unnecessary influence of gear lust. Definitely, I was thinking about starting a WIP thread. On that other site for me personally it's one of the best and most helpful threads on there, we have an extremely helpful, knowledgeable and sympathetic community so I doubt "recommendations" would be required. Obviously I'd never want to dictate anything to anyone and I have zero say in anything anyway (which of course I have no issues with). I've just noticed (on other sites) those sort of threads can devolve quickly sometimes, one needs to take criticism on the chin and respect that others are only trying to help. Also on the other side of the fence realise that it's a WIP thread, they aren't going to wrinkle free when they've just come out of the washer, neither is pure negativity useful. Johnkenn, what do you think? I think I’ve tried that as a sub forum before? Maybe? Anyway - I’d be up for it. But it wouldn’t be for hire, right? Just people posting a request for say an overdub and then someone pitching in? Hell - I know sometimes I’d love for someone to play B3 instead of me trying to slog through it...that’s kind’ve what I thought the WAYWO forum was for though.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Jun 7, 2021 18:44:39 GMT -6
Oh do I get where your coming from. In my gear pimp says it was way to easy to get upset when a client said “no more, I’m done!” Over time I turned it around, I had done my job well, they were happy and because of the advice and gear they were always sending me new clients. For some of us this adventure will never end, we will always be chasing that next step in tone. We can’t abandon the others who have more self control, they are the ones the forums really help. They come here on their musical adventure looking for advice that actually has roots in experience not the GC pro audio dude of the weeks masterbation fantasies. John maybe you need to look at this as more of a graduation. We have taught them well, it is time for them to leave the nest. Do not worry they will be back because they will realize there is always something. Something wrong, something new, something they need clarification of. Saturday night I was reminded of why I am here, I was sitting at the bar across the street and of course he was there. We all know him, that guy, the one who thinks having PT and a generic made in China LDC. You know him, the guy who can always make things sound pretty with his favorite plugins ( ironically Adam was playing Tom Waits so we were listening to anything but pretty). This guy had no concept of painting an environment with choice and position of a mic, has probably never found his happy place by Switching out an API pre for a Neve. Hell he didn’t even seam to notice how if you move your head from side to side where he was sitting you can hear the Comb filtering of the M audio speakers above the bar. I come here to escape that guy, I come here because John Epstein is crotchety, Chris is going to beat me to the stupid pun and one up my response. I come here because Hudson will pop in or Hunter will spill the beans on something I will never have. I come here because JK and Vincent and his wife are the living breathing acid tests for any mic. Martin is a less political Jason Isabel and is buddy MF’s writings were my introduction to John Hiatt, and Richard Thompson. DrBill and I can have a disagreement and still respect each other (Bill of course gives us all street cred with that important Disney audience. I come here because I know I can give Brad, Matt or Jeff a call. I come here because this is a place of people, people who as much as we might disagree about anything else all love audio. You’re not getting what I’m talking about. I don’t care whether someone is “done” buying stuff or not...hell, I haven’t really gotten much new in a while. But let’s take your gear pimp analogy. Guy calls you up and says “I’m done!” But then he says hold on a sec...and he conferences in your entire client base. Then proceeds to say, “you guys - I’m done - and sometimes I think this all becomes a distraction, so I don’t know about you guys, but I’m going to get to the most important stuff that the real professionals do - no more gear buying!” Really, I shouldn’t really even continue trying to explain why this is weird to me - but I just want you to understand why it was a little weird for me. You never met a bunch of my clients, I think I had a video guy do just that. Of course he did it 3 weeks before DVCAM came out and he had gone “Professional S-VHS so he came back. OK it wasn’t the whole world just a dinner with 3 post houses and a steadycam op. Here is the thing though, buried under layers of mutual gear lust we do manage to always throw in a bit of how to use the stuff, more so than GS. So I figure they will always be back because I think we have all (well maybe not Bob O because the beard of audio knowledge knows all) learned a bit about technique here.
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Jun 7, 2021 20:07:11 GMT -6
This is a great site Johnkenn - yeah, life does get crazy sometimes. Over here it’s been 3 floods in the studio over the last 4 months... 2/3 of the studio disassembled, moved and down to studs w flooring removed... and that’s the easier side of life’s situations we’re going through lately. Been swamped taking care of “emergencies.” Man, I miss having the time to hang here and interact with the RGO brethren. God is good in the midst of it all... but I do look forward to things settling down and having more time to post and interact here again. Oh, And I was done with purchases too... for about a month or two until the Arturia Polybrute came out. I caved... and I’m glad I did
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 20:07:57 GMT -6
Definitely, I was thinking about starting a WIP thread. On that other site for me personally it's one of the best and most helpful threads on there, we have an extremely helpful, knowledgeable and sympathetic community so I doubt "recommendations" would be required. Obviously I'd never want to dictate anything to anyone and I have zero say in anything anyway (which of course I have no issues with). I've just noticed (on other sites) those sort of threads can devolve quickly sometimes, one needs to take criticism on the chin and respect that others are only trying to help. Also on the other side of the fence realise that it's a WIP thread, they aren't going to wrinkle free when they've just come out of the washer, neither is pure negativity useful. Johnkenn , what do you think? I think I’ve tried that as a sub forum before? Maybe? Anyway - I’d be up for it. But it wouldn’t be for hire, right? Just people posting a request for say an overdub and then someone pitching in? Hell - I know sometimes I’d love for someone to play B3 instead of me trying to slog through it...that’s kind’ve what I thought the WAYWO forum was for though. No, not for hire.. Kinda like, why don't you try changing the key on the chorus or you could let the vocals breathe by EQ'ing the guitars sorta thing? Just a general WIP feedback thread, or if someone does want to collaborate because they like the song why not (given permission on both sides of course)? Mainly for a bit of fun / learning (if possible).. I know you've already got the what are you working on sub-forum but it seems to be mostly finished projects or songs, this thread would be more warts and all beginning / mid process / recorded song writing ideas that can still be changed. Once a song is locked down / fully polished / up on YT etc. you're probably not going to go back and mix things up off the back of constructive criticism or interact much with others. A bit like this thread: gearspace.com/board/songwriting/684448-post-your-rough-demos.html Of course we have a lot of paid pro's on this forum and it's not about asking for free advice, fact is on this board at least most of us have been doing this for decades anyway. Alongside that it's not about the finished product (or the final mix), that would go into the "what are you working on" sub section, more along the lines of getting the general songwriting / arrangement, approximate production sound and "style" correct. Also we have a lot of DIY'ers here, like our resident superstar ragan who has graciously given me quite a few tips over the years. I don't think there would be a conflict of interest.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Jun 7, 2021 20:10:02 GMT -6
This is a great site Johnkenn - yeah, life does get crazy sometimes. Over here it’s been 3 floods in the studio over the last 4 months... 2/3 of the studio disassembled, moved and down to studs w flooring removed... and that’s the easier side of life’s situations we’re going through lately. Been swamped taking care of “emergencies.” Man, I miss having the time to hang here and interact with the RGO brethren. God is good in the midst of it all... but I do look forward to things settling down and having more time to post and interact here again. Oh, And I was done with purchases too... for about a month or two until the Arturia Polybrute came out. I caved... and I’m glad I did Wishing you good luck with the flooding and everything else. I enjoy your posts here.
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Jun 7, 2021 20:11:25 GMT -6
This is a great site Johnkenn - yeah, life does get crazy sometimes. Over here it’s been 3 floods in the studio over the last 4 months... 2/3 of the studio disassembled, moved and down to studs w flooring removed... and that’s the easier side of life’s situations we’re going through lately. Been swamped taking care of “emergencies.” Man, I miss having the time to hang here and interact with the RGO brethren. God is good in the midst of it all... but I do look forward to things settling down and having more time to post and interact here again. Oh, And I was done with purchases too... for about a month or two until the Arturia Polybrute came out. I caved... and I’m glad I did Wishing you good luck with the flooding and everything else. I enjoy your posts here. thnx man 🙏
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 7, 2021 20:23:01 GMT -6
I just don’t even know why this is an issue. No one is making anyone spend time here. If it’s a distraction and you’re not benefitting from being here or you think it’s stupid - why are you here? I don’t think ANYONE here is hyping stuff. I know that I purposely call people out if they say “you can’t do this if you don’t have X...” I guess I’m just not relating to being paralyzed by the message board. Oh do I get where your coming from. In my gear pimp says it was way to easy to get upset when a client said “no more, I’m done!” Over time I turned it around, I had done my job well, they were happy and because of the advice and gear they were always sending me new clients. For some of us this adventure will never end, we will always be chasing that next step in tone. We can’t abandon the others who have more self control, they are the ones the forums really help. They come here on their musical adventure looking for advice that actually has roots in experience not the GC pro audio dude of the weeks masterbation fantasies. John maybe you need to look at this as more of a graduation. We have taught them well, it is time for them to leave the nest. Do not worry they will be back because they will realize there is always something. Something wrong, something new, something they need clarification of. Saturday night I was reminded of why I am here, I was sitting at the bar across the street and of course he was there. We all know him, that guy, the one who thinks having PT and a generic made in China LDC. You know him, the guy who can always make things sound pretty with his favorite plugins ( ironically Adam was playing Tom Waits so we were listening to anything but pretty). This guy had no concept of painting an environment with choice and position of a mic, has probably never found his happy place by Switching out an API pre for a Neve. Hell he didn’t even seam to notice how if you move your head from side to side where he was sitting you can hear the Comb filtering of the M audio speakers above the bar. I come here to escape that guy, I come here because John Epstein is crotchety, Chris is going to beat me to the stupid pun and one up my response. I come here because Hudson will pop in or Hunter will spill the beans on something I will never have. I come here because JK and Vincent and his wife are the living breathing acid tests for any mic. Martin is a less political Jason Isabel and is buddy MF’s writings were my introduction to John Hiatt, and Richard Thompson. DrBill and I can have a disagreement and still respect each other (Bill of course gives us all street cred with that important Disney audience. I come here because I know I can give Brad, Matt or Jeff a call. I come here because this is a place of people, people who as much as we might disagree about anything else all love audio. This is all really wonderful... but what bars are you going to where people are mixing Tom Waits songs on monitors above the bar using cheap LDC mics? Did I miss that being a metaphor or are their really bars where they mix recorded music where you live? Brings new meaning to the term "mixologist"... ZING!!!!
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 7, 2021 20:25:51 GMT -6
Definitely, I was thinking about starting a WIP thread. On that other site for me personally it's one of the best and most helpful threads on there, we have an extremely helpful, knowledgeable and sympathetic community so I doubt "recommendations" would be required. Obviously I'd never want to dictate anything to anyone and I have zero say in anything anyway (which of course I have no issues with). I've just noticed (on other sites) those sort of threads can devolve quickly sometimes, one needs to take criticism on the chin and respect that others are only trying to help. Also on the other side of the fence realise that it's a WIP thread, they aren't going to wrinkle free when they've just come out of the washer, neither is pure negativity useful. Johnkenn , what do you think? I think I’ve tried that as a sub forum before? Maybe? Anyway - I’d be up for it. But it wouldn’t be for hire, right? Just people posting a request for say an overdub and then someone pitching in? Hell - I know sometimes I’d love for someone to play B3 instead of me trying to slog through it...that’s kind’ve what I thought the WAYWO forum was for though. This would be so fun. Would have to have a hard and fast "volunteer only" rule to keep it fun though.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 7, 2021 20:40:34 GMT -6
I think I’ve tried that as a sub forum before? Maybe? Anyway - I’d be up for it. But it wouldn’t be for hire, right? Just people posting a request for say an overdub and then someone pitching in? Hell - I know sometimes I’d love for someone to play B3 instead of me trying to slog through it...that’s kind’ve what I thought the WAYWO forum was for though. No, not for hire.. Kinda like, why don't you try changing the key on the chorus or you could let the vocals breathe by EQ'ing the guitars sorta thing? Just a general WIP feedback thread, or if someone does want to collaborate because they like the song why not (given permission on both sides of course)? Mainly for a bit of fun / learning (if possible).. I know you've already got the what are you working on sub-forum but it seems to be mostly finished projects or songs, this thread would be more warts and all beginning / mid process / recorded song writing ideas that can still be changed. Once a song is locked down / fully polished / up on YT etc. you're probably not going to go back and mix things up off the back of constructive criticism or interact much with others. A bit like this thread: gearspace.com/board/songwriting/684448-post-your-rough-demos.html Of course we have a lot of paid pro's on this forum and it's not about asking for free advice, fact is on this board at least most of us have been doing this for decades anyway. Alongside that it's not about the finished product (or the final mix), that would go into the "what are you working on" sub section, more along the lines of getting the general songwriting / arrangement, approximate production sound and "style" correct. Also we have a lot of DIY'ers here, like our resident superstar ragan who has graciously given me quite a few tips over the years. I don't think there would be a conflict of interest. That’s kind’ve what the WAYWO sub is/was supposed to be. I guess it has kind’ve morphed into a “look what I’ve done” sub. Maybe I should make two. Rename WAYWO to something like Your latest finished product and another like In Progress or something.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 7, 2021 20:45:09 GMT -6
People can be weird sometimes, that's for sure John. It's an ego and insecurity thing. This forum can be as great as you want it to be if you're smart about how to approach it.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Jun 7, 2021 20:53:30 GMT -6
WoW .... Kindergarten-Time is on and I missed it? Damn it....
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Jun 7, 2021 21:26:36 GMT -6
The question is does “Peak Gear” mean you cease peaking at gear?
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jun 7, 2021 21:35:58 GMT -6
It's interesting, I didn't read anything odd or confrontational into what the OP said. I think it's perfectly sensible. Sometimes the hunt for gear euphoria is a distraction. Sometimes it's a welcome and fun distraction. But I didn't interpret any kind of knock on the forum in the OP saying they needed to pull back from sonic tail-chasing and just get to work on content. If, for them, that means less forum time, then that's how it is for them. I was surprised to see that many people's response to it was to come to the defense of RGO. That was a non sequitur to me, as I didn't read any kind of criticism of RGO in what the OP was saying. But we all interpret these things differently.
Happy music-making and sonic dilly-dallying to all. I enjoy both pursuits.
|
|
|
Post by mattbroiler on Jun 8, 2021 5:52:58 GMT -6
likewise I read the original post as a self critique that I happen to relate to
I most definitely waste time at times with internet browsing but some of that is subject specific learning and I've gained good knowledge in the process so many thanks to John and everyone else here for the audio education.
I may have reached "peak" gear in terms of stuff acquisition but that won't stop me from peeking at (real) gear online. It just depends what piques your gear interests.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 8, 2021 7:22:20 GMT -6
It's interesting, I didn't read anything odd or confrontational into what the OP said. I think it's perfectly sensible. Sometimes the hunt for gear euphoria is a distraction. Sometimes it's a welcome and fun distraction. But I didn't interpret any kind of knock on the forum in the OP saying they needed to pull back from sonic tail-chasing and just get to work on content. If, for them, that means less forum time, then that's how it is for them. I was surprised to see that many people's response to it was to come to the defense of RGO. That was a non sequitur to me, as I didn't read any kind of criticism of RGO in what the OP was saying. But we all interpret these things differently. Happy music-making and sonic dilly-dallying to all. I enjoy both pursuits. So none of the multiple analogies made any sense to you? Again - I couldn’t care less if someone decides to leave for their own well-being or for whatever reason. That’s fine. What I had a problem with is having a thread on the board - which I’ve spent a lot of effort to build - about how it’s a time suck and sometimes a distraction. How can anyone not understand that?
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Jun 8, 2021 7:28:54 GMT -6
I thought this forum was full of geek peers who peaked at gear?
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jun 8, 2021 14:20:24 GMT -6
It's interesting, I didn't read anything odd or confrontational into what the OP said. I think it's perfectly sensible. Sometimes the hunt for gear euphoria is a distraction. Sometimes it's a welcome and fun distraction. But I didn't interpret any kind of knock on the forum in the OP saying they needed to pull back from sonic tail-chasing and just get to work on content. If, for them, that means less forum time, then that's how it is for them. I was surprised to see that many people's response to it was to come to the defense of RGO. That was a non sequitur to me, as I didn't read any kind of criticism of RGO in what the OP was saying. But we all interpret these things differently. Happy music-making and sonic dilly-dallying to all. I enjoy both pursuits. So none of the multiple analogies made any sense to you? Again - I couldn’t care less if someone decides to leave for their own well-being or for whatever reason. That’s fine. What I had a problem with is having a thread on the board - which I’ve spent a lot of effort to build - about how it’s a time suck and sometimes a distraction. How can anyone not understand that? Yeah I dunno, I guess I just didn't see it as any kind of criticism of this forum in particular, or of forum participation as a general thing. The way it sounded to me is that the OP was just realizing that for them, being on the forums was a way of avoiding working on their music. And even then, they (the OP) just said they just needed a temporary break. I see that as a person-specific thing. Like some people have trouble with alcohol, others don't. For some people, maybe it's not that they need to quit drinking altogether, but they need to take a break and re-calibrate their relationship with it. We're all on this weird audio/music kick and there are a lot of ups and downs. I just saw the OP as sharing some of that kind of thing. I didn't get any whiff of criticizing this forum. Which is not to say that's the correct take or anything, just that it was my take.
|
|
|
Post by OtisGreying on Jun 9, 2021 2:25:22 GMT -6
It's interesting, I didn't read anything odd or confrontational into what the OP said. I think it's perfectly sensible. Sometimes the hunt for gear euphoria is a distraction. Sometimes it's a welcome and fun distraction. But I didn't interpret any kind of knock on the forum in the OP saying they needed to pull back from sonic tail-chasing and just get to work on content. If, for them, that means less forum time, then that's how it is for them. I was surprised to see that many people's response to it was to come to the defense of RGO. That was a non sequitur to me, as I didn't read any kind of criticism of RGO in what the OP was saying. But we all interpret these things differently. Happy music-making and sonic dilly-dallying to all. I enjoy both pursuits. So none of the multiple analogies made any sense to you? Again - I couldn’t care less if someone decides to leave for their own well-being or for whatever reason. That’s fine. What I had a problem with is having a thread on the board - which I’ve spent a lot of effort to build - about how it’s a time suck and sometimes a distraction. How can anyone not understand that? With respect, he's just sharing his thoughts as a sendoff, and perhaps his perspective can start a conversation on ROI on time spent when it comes to forums - which it did. I don't think that's an bad/non-useful conversation to have on a forum considering it could help some people to shift their focus for the better if that's what they need.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jun 9, 2021 5:56:54 GMT -6
That's ok, I'm sorry my post could be misread. Everyone's human! I should ask "Spock" that question next time. Well half a glass is better than none. Chris well that's certainly going to vulcanize the debate.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Jun 9, 2021 16:56:18 GMT -6
I should ask "Spock" that question next time. Well half a glass is better than none. Chris well that's certainly going to vulcanize the debate. Where the rubber meets the road?
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jun 9, 2021 19:28:04 GMT -6
I know John K. isn't fishing for compliments... But a fish landed in the boat anyway. Thanks again John, for all you do. This is my "fave spot" on the Internet, hanging out with all you guys. Whatever degree of educating my ears-for one thing-Is largely due to being around here. And wishing Stormy all my best too. I hope we're kept updated now and then on how he's doing. Chris
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Jun 9, 2021 22:44:45 GMT -6
Stormy done left the building...
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jun 9, 2021 23:00:02 GMT -6
I'm time sealing that part of my post, for 2022 then. Chris
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jun 10, 2021 22:40:29 GMT -6
I just don’t even know why this is an issue. No one is making anyone spend time here. If it’s a distraction and you’re not benefitting from being here or you think it’s stupid - why are you here? I don’t think ANYONE here is hyping stuff. I know that I purposely call people out if they say “you can’t do this if you don’t have X...” I guess I’m just not relating to being paralyzed by the message board. Well, you can't RECORD if you don't have a MICROPHONE. (Unless you do EDM, I guess....?)
|
|
|
Post by kilroyrock on Jun 11, 2021 10:30:23 GMT -6
Isn't this when you sell everything off and buy everything all over again?
The only thing that really ages for me are my AD/DA converters, the technology just keeps getting better and better
|
|