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Post by seawell on Jun 8, 2021 17:23:29 GMT -6
On iPhone: Settings > Music > Audio Quality is where you can turn lossless audio on. I don’t have any atmos compatible devices that I know of so I haven’t been able to check that aspect out yet but the setting above should get you the HD music streaming. Settings > Music > Dolby Atmos > Automatic will enable atmos anytime a compatible device is connected. Thanks! I just got it working on my iPhone, holy crap. I’ve been listening to an album almost everyday for the last 9 months, and it’s noticeably way clearer and dynamic. A few of the tracks are kinda stabby now, but in a (VERY) refreshing way. I’ve been surprised at the difference so far too. It’s not subtle.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jun 8, 2021 18:40:15 GMT -6
For some reason, I’ve always enjoyed the interface/layout/experience of Spotify better, despite the fact that I use an iPhone/iMac/various iPads and you’d think the Apple paradigm would grab me more. I hope Spotify follows suit. Or maybe I should give Apple Music another try. Same, never been a fan of the iTunes UX approach. But cool that there's possibly another option than my Pono that I never use, lol.
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Post by popmann on Jun 8, 2021 19:36:01 GMT -6
How are you listening to HD on an iDevice? I mean literal hardware you're outputing it through/to....
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Post by christopher on Jun 8, 2021 20:09:03 GMT -6
I don’t know the details or why’s but I’ve been using the old molded wired earbuds from like iPad2 or iPhone 6. (I got used to them for excercise) After turning on lossless, I guess it shows a logo “lossless” or “Hi-Res lossless” or no logo.. Everything is sounding incredibly better in every way. And phone speaker is more dynamic. My ears get slammed by snares now at full volume (in earbuds), so yeah it’s louder and dynamic. I figure whatever it is, it’s either an update to encoding (like say for HiRes) or bypassing the encoding. That could mean new rules for RMS levels… whatever is going on, it’s an incredibly wonderful thing. Multiple albums I haven’t heard that clarity and depth, and all the little tiny overdubs I forgot existed since my CD collection was stolen and I swore off replacing them. That was 15 years ago? So weird.
- I also tried Bluetooth in the Honda Pilot, sounded great and the logo was still up. I tried CarPlay next.. didn’t sound great, not sure why. It was notably dull which it never felt that way before ever. Or I mean it always used to sound dull, but Bluetooth is making me feel more direct which used to feel exact same as CarPlay.
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Post by popmann on Jun 8, 2021 20:54:15 GMT -6
The analog jack can't do more than lossless 24/48. Been the same on every iDevice from the original iPod until they stopped making them with analog jacks some years ago.
Blutooth can't do linear audio at any sample rate.
CarPlay over wire is the only one capable of HD lossless....
That's the problem I was getting at. I have all these machines...apple and windows...various HD audio gear...and none can combine to allow me to listen to this. \
but, yes the MFiT masters do sound better. Some stunningly so...I'd bet the first Sara Bareilles has 5-6db less limiting.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 8, 2021 20:58:24 GMT -6
The analog jack can't do more than lossless 24/48. Been the same on every iDevice from the original iPod until they stopped making them with analog jacks some years ago. Blutooth can't do linear audio at any sample rate. CarPlay over wire is the only one capable of HD lossless.... That's the problem I was getting at. I have all these machines...apple and windows...various HD audio gear...and none can combine to allow me to listen to this. \ but, yes the MFiT masters do sound better. Some stunningly so...I'd bet the first Sara Bareilles has 5-6db less limiting. My imacs will playback DXD audio files. So will my Surface Pro. Apple computers have supported really high sample rates for years. Can't speak on mobile devices, but a dragon usb DAC might be a good option. Or other USB headphones out there.
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Post by popmann on Jun 8, 2021 21:44:53 GMT -6
I understand that. My iMac from 2007 in out office has an inbuilt 24/96 DAC as does my 2012 Macbook Air I literally use as a ful ltime HD music streamer (from Tidal and Amazon) Still can't listen to anything here on either. Neither will run Big Sur.
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Post by christopher on Jun 8, 2021 21:55:00 GMT -6
I’ll try CarPlay again over wire. It’s possible I guess if it was HiRes maybe it was lower in volume? That could explain why the tweeters were suddenly not “lit up” (edit; it will be a day or two before I can test. I’m remembering now that Apple Music always sounds pretty great in the pilot with the tweeters in there, we always listen pretty quiet. Today I was alone and cranked it, only had the car since Feb. And CarPlay hasn’t worked for my phone since last update, so maybe it always sounds weird and really no change)
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Post by seawell on Jun 8, 2021 22:38:51 GMT -6
Going from the AAC 256 Kbps files Apple Music previously delivered to Lossless 24/48, should be a decent amount of improvement.
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Post by gwlee7 on Jun 9, 2021 5:26:05 GMT -6
Am I understanding correctly (good chance I am not) that most of us are fucked and don’t have the right set ups to take advantage of the shift to lossless? Am I correct in thinking that once the music goes through Bluetooth that it’s compressed and down sampled or whatever again anyway? So my nice wireless headphones on my bedside table won’t work, nor will the ear buds I use while doing yard work or with my phone connected by Bluetooth to my car stereo. If all that is true, then why bother paying the upcharge?
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Post by gouge on Jun 9, 2021 5:51:54 GMT -6
lots of systems can handle lossless.
my lg soundbar will play high res and my headphones on my computer play hi res but the car won't.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 9, 2021 8:56:57 GMT -6
So how do two speakers output a Song mixed for Atmos? Just listened to the Apple example with What’s Going On and there’s a major difference in stereo field in the mixing.
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Post by christopher on Jun 9, 2021 10:12:09 GMT -6
Am I understanding correctly (good chance I am not) that most of us are fucked and don’t have the right set ups to take advantage of the shift to lossless? Am I correct in thinking that once the music goes through Bluetooth that it’s compressed and down sampled or whatever again anyway? So my nice wireless headphones on my bedside table won’t work, nor will the ear buds I use while doing yard work or with my phone connected by Bluetooth to my car stereo. If all that is true, then why bother paying the upcharge? support.apple.com/en-us/HT212183Bluetooth won’t be an improvement apparently. Also it looks like the phone only does up to 48kHz if I read that correct. For me I use wired earbuds which are great on walks and taking in albums, or the adapter for my studio headphones for checking references. Those are my main ‘listening for highest quality’ times, so I’m really happy to get lossless.
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Post by seawell on Jun 9, 2021 11:31:08 GMT -6
Am I understanding correctly (good chance I am not) that most of us are fucked and don’t have the right set ups to take advantage of the shift to lossless? Am I correct in thinking that once the music goes through Bluetooth that it’s compressed and down sampled or whatever again anyway? So my nice wireless headphones on my bedside table won’t work, nor will the ear buds I use while doing yard work or with my phone connected by Bluetooth to my car stereo. If all that is true, then why bother paying the upcharge? There’s no up charge at least. The subscription prices are staying the same.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 9, 2021 18:30:59 GMT -6
So how do two speakers output a Song mixed for Atmos? Just listened to the Apple example with What’s Going On and there’s a major difference in stereo field in the mixing. That's all on Dolby downmixer. The algorithm decides how to downmix it from the 7.1.4 Atmos mix to whatever setup the user has. Be it a stereo speaker setup, headphones, a smart speaker, 4 smart speakers, smart bar, whatever. To me as a mixer..it's a bit of a downside. I don't like the stereo down mix either and will still make a dedicated stereo mix.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 9, 2021 18:35:20 GMT -6
Am I understanding correctly (good chance I am not) that most of us are fucked and don’t have the right set ups to take advantage of the shift to lossless? Am I correct in thinking that once the music goes through Bluetooth that it’s compressed and down sampled or whatever again anyway? So my nice wireless headphones on my bedside table won’t work, nor will the ear buds I use while doing yard work or with my phone connected by Bluetooth to my car stereo. If all that is true, then why bother paying the upcharge? All depends on the bluetooth device and version. www.google.com/amp/s/www.soundguys.com/understanding-bluetooth-codecs-15352/amp/
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2021 10:17:19 GMT -6
If you take the lightning Jack out to USB loss les’s shouldn’t be a problem. I have yet to hear an ATMOS music mix I like out side of the actual room it was mixed in. The problem is one that most consumer guys don’t get; if you want to create an environment you need all those speakers to have the same response and position needs to be very consistent.
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Post by popmann on Jun 10, 2021 16:58:49 GMT -6
Doesn't matter the BT version. It's all lossy. Just a matter of HOW lossy between versions.
Something I've learned about this, which is related to the BT stack...you need either AAC (high quality)...or Hi Res Lossless....if you use "regular" lossless, it's anything BUT. My guess is it's the two on the fly resamples--one on their server end to give you a 44 stream...and one on the BT stack. With my modern AptX capable phones, it's passing AAC through--meaing the MFiT comes down AAC and stays that way until the phones convert to analog. HiRes lossless...comes losslessly all the way until there's ONE conversion on the BT stack.
Some of the MFiT masters are lovely...even compressed. I would love to have a Big Sur Mac right now so I can listen to them at native 24/96 lossless. But, that's the point, is it not, boys and girls? Gets to the heart of why I can stream 192khz from my Macbook via Amazon, Qobuz, or Tidal...and not via Apple....they want me to buy a new machine. The others are selling a service.
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Post by longscale on Jun 10, 2021 21:00:07 GMT -6
Upgraded my Mac trash-can to 11.4 tonight. Having some serious flashbacks to the 70's listening to records (vinyl). Running Hi Res Lossless to my converters. R.E.M's Murmur sounded quite good. Was fun. I listened to the entire album, something as of late I almost never do anymore. I'm quite happy with this.
My only beef is I wish they offered a bulk, dump everything I've downloaded and upgrade button.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2021 21:35:50 GMT -6
Upgraded my Mac trash-can to 11.4 tonight. Having some serious flashbacks to the 70's listening to records (vinyl). Running Hi Res Lossless to my converters. R.E.M's Murmur sounded quite good. Was fun. I listened to the entire album, something as of late I almost never do anymore. I'm quite happy with this. My only beef is I wish they offered a bulk, dump everything I've downloaded and upgrade button. Man other than the trashcan didn’t I type this a while ago almost word for word in reference to Tidal/ Mytek / BEL Quested ? Love it when our worlds collide, sort of proof I might just be sane after all.
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Post by popmann on Jun 11, 2021 10:43:19 GMT -6
If only Tidal hadn't just pooched their whole catalog convetering CDs in to "Master" files. When they did that, I canceled. I still have it for a few more months....but, unless they do some MAJOR backtracking....they're dead to me. I defended MQA for it's time correction on 44/48khz "masters"....but, it doesn't work to apply it to a CD, apparently--they've gone and done it. Obscure shit...second Baton Rouge album that didn't sell for SHIT in 1991 got remastered for MQA? Bullshit. Welcome to HD for the last 20 years. I feel like people are hearing it because it's APPLE now....? I'm like "I've been forced to buy and clean big hunks of black plastic why?" I found a way to rig up the iPad to my Oppo DAC to add HD to the MFiT. Lovely stuff. Immediately my thought is "let's record these out as flat files". I mean that Due Lipa record from last year is more dynamic and sound fab....the NEW version is NOT a MFiT/ADM....and sounds like it always did....how long do you think Apple will keep both versions up? It's not a magic bullet....MFiT Garabge remasters might be better than their blisteringly loud (HDTracks) 96khz....but, the original 90s discs sound better....and vinyl sound better still....so, some mastering guys figured out how to game Apple's system. Still--I just put in a Drizly order....there will be a LOT of drinkin' with the stereo cranked this weekend.
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Post by popmann on Jun 12, 2021 19:06:54 GMT -6
Seriously good.
I mean my liver's throbbing to Dua Lipa's disco beat but....here's perspective I posted elsewhere about people calling this overly complicated and "botched" rollout...and very "not Apple like". Counter argument:
As of this week, Apple has the second cheapest music streaming service....with the most selection of any....with the best sound quality (averaged) over (lossy) BluTooth headphones.
How is that botched?
Sure--is it hard to get an iOS device to play HD audio? yes, but that equation isn't different for Tidal or Qobuz or Amazon. It's not HD audio hardware, so if you don't HAVE any....I mean you can't. And it's not really better on the Android side of the house....so that's not really even an "apple portable hardware" issue....it's just that people expect their phono to be an audiophile music player? Um....
QUESTION for those of you running Big Sur and using this service--when you click download--can you find the file? Is it DRM'd or in some crazy monolith database format....? I assume it is, but since Apple DOES like to sell hardware by looking the other way from IP theft....I'd go buy a new MacBook today....and a big HDD to store the HD MFiT masters that can't be had anywhere else....
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Post by seawell on Jun 12, 2021 19:34:44 GMT -6
Seriously good. I mean my liver's throbbing to Dua Lipa's disco beat but....here's perspective I posted elsewhere about people calling this overly complicated and "botched" rollout...and very "not Apple like". Counter argument: As of this week, Apple has the second cheapest music streaming service....with the most selection of any....with the best sound quality (averaged) over (lossy) BluTooth headphones. How is that botched? Sure--is it hard to get an iOS device to play HD audio? yes, but that equation isn't different for Tidal or Qobuz or Amazon. It's not HD audio hardware, so if you don't HAVE any....I mean you can't. And it's not really better on the Android side of the house....so that's not really even an "apple portable hardware" issue....it's just that people expect their phono to be an audiophile music player? Um.... QUESTION for those of you running Big Sur and using this service--when you click download--can you find the file? Is it DRM'd or in some crazy monolith database format....? I assume it is, but since Apple DOES like to sell hardware by looking the other way from IP theft....I'd go buy a new MacBook today....and a big HDD to store the HD MFiT masters that can't be had anywhere else.... I agree about the rollout! It seems like the emphasis was put on atmos and the HD audio was kind of an afterthought. I just downloaded a song in Apple Music on my laptop(on Big Sur) and the file shows up here: Macintosh HD > Users > User > Music > iTunes > iTunes Media > Apple Music . It is a .mp4 protected file.
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Post by christopher on Jun 13, 2021 12:57:54 GMT -6
Seriously good. I'd go buy a new MacBook today....and a big HDD to store the HD MFiT masters that can't be had anywhere else.... It took me a few days to realize MFiT means mastered for iTunes.. So I guess you are saying that when they made a MFiT master, they make it with extra dynamics in anticipation of the iTunes compression? I mean actual Multi-band style compression, not file compression. And so when we listen to Lossless, we are finally hearing a mastering engineer allowed to keep it sounding good, and not trying to be the loudest thing on earth? And everywhere else they cave to pressure and crush it.. so it’s the only time we get to hear the details? Does that make sense, am I getting this?
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Post by popmann on Jun 13, 2021 21:25:29 GMT -6
FWIW, part of the confusion is that I'm still using that term, which is what it was called until Apple decided to try to retire "iTunes" from their verbiage--they're now all labeled "Apple Digital Master". Because it was made dynamic to sound good with Soundcheck on. So, the volume normalization that all streaming services use now, iDevices have always had on by default.
But, in general, yes. It's made to sound it's "best" with volume offsets...with some (IMO cheap) mastering tricks outlawed....so, the ME can make it crunchy as they want, and it just gets smaller and muddier....done properly, I feel like you also monitored through the AAC codec so you could adjust for what it was going to lose.
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