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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 3:04:02 GMT -6
Just as another option -
Can I do this?
I might be able to use the room next to my studio space (I have a very understanding wife) to put a cab and mics in there.
I want to keep the amp in the control room with me - the problem is at the moment I'm not using a separate head and cab but a combo Princeton 68 CPR.
Can I disconnect the internal speaker (it literally just unplugs) run that into an IronMan II (to drop the level at bit and drive my amp a touch) and then use a quality speaker cable to a 1x12 cab in the next door room with the mics on it.
Can you use a combo amp like that - treating it as a head with a cab attached?
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Post by Guitar on May 7, 2021 3:28:59 GMT -6
Just as another option - Can I do this? I might be able to use the room next to my studio space (I have a very understanding wife) to put a cab and mics in there. I want to keep the amp in the control room with me - the problem is at the moment I'm not using a separate head and cab but a combo Princeton 68 CPR. Can I disconnect the internal speaker (it literally just unplugs) run that into an IronMan II (to drop the level at bit and drive my amp a touch) and then use a quality speaker cable to a 1x12 cab in the next door room with the mics on it. Can you use a combo amp like that - treating it as a head with a cab attached? Sure thing, I have a few of my amps wired up this way, with a little patch bay to separate the head from the speaker, it's a great feature to have on a combo amp.
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 4:04:49 GMT -6
Great - thank you for your reply - the patch bay is a fantastic idea!
That way if I get a couple of other amp heads they can all use the same speaker cab.
Do you need a special patchbay to be able to take speaker level whattages?
I mean my combo amp and most heads only use ordinary jack sockets for their outputs.
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Post by bricejchandler on May 7, 2021 4:13:10 GMT -6
Great - thank you for your reply - the patch bay is a fantastic idea! That way if I get a couple of other amp heads they can all use the same speaker cab. Do you need a special patchbay to be able to take speaker level whattages? I mean my combo amp and most heads only use ordinary jack sockets for their outputs. I've seen it done but it seems a little iffy to me. I had one of those Radial boxes to connect two heads to the same speaker in my old studio and it worked flawlessly and it wasn't super expensive.
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Post by Guitar on May 7, 2021 4:22:34 GMT -6
Great - thank you for your reply - the patch bay is a fantastic idea! That way if I get a couple of other amp heads they can all use the same speaker cab. Do you need a special patchbay to be able to take speaker level whattages? I mean my combo amp and most heads only use ordinary jack sockets for their outputs. I guess I meant a little "patch box" on the amp chassis itself, I build these little boxes in there, maybe "patchbay" was an exaggeration of a term. But yes, you can do a patch panel, just make sure to use very thick wire, and very sturdy jacks. Maybe the locking neutrik 1/4" ones. And your patch cables would also have to be speaker cables. I soldered one of these up in a studio down the road from here, onto a panel in a separate room, long run. He hasn't called back so hopefully that means it's been working out.
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 4:24:18 GMT -6
Oh great, I have a couple of Radial devices and they're well built, I'll check it out.
Also, can anyone suggest a amp head to compliment my Princeton 68 CPR.
I don't do high gain stuff, my music is very much in the Sting, Gabriel, later Beatles kinda vibe.
I know Dominic Miller sues Mesa Boogie, would a Mesa Boogie head and cab be a good contrast to the Princeton?
I know Two Rock do a baby amp head but I'm thinking it will be too similar to my Fender Princeton 68 reissue?
Thanks
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Post by bricejchandler on May 7, 2021 4:26:02 GMT -6
Great - thank you for your reply - the patch bay is a fantastic idea! That way if I get a couple of other amp heads they can all use the same speaker cab. Do you need a special patchbay to be able to take speaker level whattages? I mean my combo amp and most heads only use ordinary jack sockets for their outputs. I guess I meant a little "patch box" on the amp chassis itself, I build these little boxes in there, maybe "patchbay" was an exaggeration of a term. But yes, you can do a patch panel, just make sure to use very thick wire, and very sturdy jacks. Maybe the locking neutrik 1/4" ones. And your patch cables would also have to be speaker cables. Yeah you could build it yourself but you definitely wouldn't want to use one of those cheap trs patchbays! I've had so many problems with ground and phase on some of those cheap ones that I would get my amps anywhere close but I've read of people doing it which seems nuts.
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Post by Guitar on May 7, 2021 4:28:18 GMT -6
Oh great, I have a couple of Radial devices and they're well built, I'll check it out. Also, can anyone suggest a amp head to compliment my Princeton 68 CPR. I don't do high gain stuff, my music is very much in the Sting, Gabriel, later Beatles kinda vibe. I know Dominic Miller sues Mesa Boogie, would a Mesa Boogie head and cab be a good contrast to the Princeton? I know Two Rock do a baby amp head but I'm thinking it will be too similar to my Fender Princeton 68 reissue? Thanks You might look at the AC30 heads, I had an AC30HW that was pretty special. Mesa Boogie makes great amps, I'd like to get back a Rectoverb (used to have) and in my dreams there's a Triple Rectifier, just to see what I could get out of it, the monster. I like those Black Shadow speakers too (MC90) and the Vintage 30's they use are fine as well.
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Post by bricejchandler on May 7, 2021 4:28:53 GMT -6
I find that with a Fender head, an ac15/30 and some kind of Marshall JMPish head I can do about anything. Then I'd get a couple super cheap amps for vibe parts, like those tiny harmony, Gretsch amps, whatever seems cool and cheap!
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 6:04:16 GMT -6
Thank guys, great advice that's much appreciated.
I'm kind of a multi-instrumentalist, I've been playing professionally my whole career on keyboards and drums but now after 30 years playing guitar and bass as a hobby so to speak, I find myself recently with enough confidence in my playing to be putting down my own guitar/bass parts (I've been studying hard for a while with the Tim Pierce Masterclass)
However, as you can see on this thread, I lack experience in the guitar equipment area, but with help I'm learning fast :-)
Thanks again.
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Post by Guitar on May 7, 2021 6:16:59 GMT -6
Thank guys, great advice that's much appreciated. I'm kind of a multi-instrumentalist, I've been playing professionally my whole career on keyboards and drums but now after 30 years playing guitar and bass as a hobby so to speak, I find myself recently with enough confidence in my playing to be putting down my own guitar/bass parts (I've been studying hard for a while with the Tim Pierce Masterclass) However, as you can see on this thread, I lack experience in the guitar equipment area, but with help I'm learning fast :-) Thanks again. Not to hijack your thread but if you have any advice for me to go from playing drums for 10 years as a hobby, to being a jazz drummer, that would be appreciated. That's my dream with instruments.
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 6:22:41 GMT -6
Thank guys, great advice that's much appreciated. I'm kind of a multi-instrumentalist, I've been playing professionally my whole career on keyboards and drums but now after 30 years playing guitar and bass as a hobby so to speak, I find myself recently with enough confidence in my playing to be putting down my own guitar/bass parts (I've been studying hard for a while with the Tim Pierce Masterclass) However, as you can see on this thread, I lack experience in the guitar equipment area, but with help I'm learning fast :-) Thanks again. Not to hijack your thread but if you have any advice for me to go from playing drums for 10 years as a hobby, to being a jazz drummer, that would be appreciated. That's my dream with instruments. My pleasure to help. In addition to listening to lot's of jazz (the best way to get jazz into your musical mind) if you can read rhythm notation Jim Chapin's book "Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer" is THE method book for jazz independence and highly recommended. www.amazon.com/Advanced-Techniques-Modern-Drummer-Vol/dp/0757995403
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Post by Guitar on May 7, 2021 6:41:51 GMT -6
Thank you!! I will buy that book within the week. Jazz drummers are my favorite drummers, as well as my favorite composers, which is the root of my ambition. Now back to guitar of course.
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 6:43:15 GMT -6
I find that with a Fender head, an ac15/30 and some kind of Marshall JMPish head I can do about anything. Then I'd get a couple super cheap amps for vibe parts, like those tiny harmony, Gretsch amps, whatever seems cool and cheap! What I like about your suggestion is the amp heads are a reasonable cost. My Princeton 68 CPR cost me £840 and sounds great .... and I see an AC15 head is £500 and I'm sure also sounds great. But a Two Rock mini head is £2,700 which is just crazy unless your a pro of course.
Q. Which Marshall head do you suggest would add to a Fender and AC15.
Q. Also, can you suggest a 1 x12 cab to fit well with all three amps.
Should it be open or closed back for a recording setting?
Thank you
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 6:49:03 GMT -6
Thank you!! I will buy that book within the week. Jazz drummers are my favorite drummers, as well as my favorite composers, which is the root of my ambition. Now back to guitar of course. Jack DeJohnette and Gary Husband Both great drummer/pianist/composers. I've worked as both a jazz pianist and jazz drummer. Though these days my true love has become the singer songwriter vibe like Sting, John Mayer etc.
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Post by Guitar on May 7, 2021 6:54:13 GMT -6
Pardon me for not being the person you quoted but, if I may add, I think a Celestion "greenback" speaker would be ideal, or possibly one of the larger magnet versions (H code), or higher wattage versions, like the Cream backs.
Personally speaking I use a WGS Reaper 30 that is in this tone zone, but I've had great luck with Celestions over the years as well. I think a Creamback H75 could be pretty ideal in a 1x12. Or the M75 if you prefer that smaller magnet sound.
These are sort of the goldilocks type of guitar loudspeakers in my world, work with all kinds of amps. I'd go for an open back but that's just me. The only closed backs I like are bass cabinets and 4x12 guitar cabinets. With a tiny cabinet like a 1x12 the open back will fill the room more than a closed back.
Just listened to Jack DeJohnette "New Rags" last night and it was spectacular, I am an instant fan.
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Post by notneeson on May 7, 2021 9:05:55 GMT -6
Head in the control room, cabinet in the live room is an awesome way to go, speaking from experience.
But, it’s actually a little like using a sim in that it feels slightly more at a remove from the amp/instrument interactions you get in the room.
It actually made me appreciate sims more, although I love amps and can’t imagine ever giving them up.
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 10:01:19 GMT -6
Pardon me for not being the person you quoted but, if I may add, I think a Celestion "greenback" speaker would be ideal, or possibly one of the larger magnet versions (H code), or higher wattage versions, like the Cream backs. Personally speaking I use a WGS Reaper 30 that is in this tone zone, but I've had great luck with Celestions over the years as well. I think a Creamback H75 could be pretty ideal in a 1x12. Or the M75 if you prefer that smaller magnet sound. These are sort of the goldilocks type of guitar loudspeakers in my world, work with all kinds of amps. I'd go for an open back but that's just me. The only closed backs I like are bass cabinets and 4x12 guitar cabinets. With a tiny cabinet like a 1x12 the open back will fill the room more than a closed back. Just listened to Jack DeJohnette "New Rags" last night and it was spectacular, I am an instant fan. Thanks for that advice on speakers - I'll look into it. Yeah Jack DeJohnette is a fantastic musician, he can play funk and rock style rhythms brilliantly too!
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 10:05:29 GMT -6
Head in the control room, cabinet in the live room is an awesome way to go, speaking from experience. But, it’s actually a little like using a sim in that it feels slightly more at a remove from the amp/instrument interactions you get in the room. It actually made me appreciate sims more, although I love amps and can’t imagine ever giving them up. Funny you should say that - I friend just dropped of his Ironman II for me to try with my Princeton and he said keep the amp in the control room so you get the interaction - just put on headphones. Problem is I'm not keen on headphones and avoid them where possible! There's so many options and so many approaches.
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Post by Guitar on May 7, 2021 10:33:11 GMT -6
If I can give even more advice, as a guitar player with too much free time, I would maybe look at an empty Mojotone 1x12 cabinet, style of your choice, and add your chosen speaker. They are great cabinets, made in North Carolina, I have a large 1x12 here with an Eminence Cannabis Rex and it's a wonderful thing, although no, that is not a versatile speaker, very specific. It's good with my Fender head, but not some of the others. The cabinet build quality is completely satisfactory. The one I have is pine so it's really easy to carry around. If you are the tinkering type, this is a fun project. Friedman, Morgan, Synergy, Wampler, Zilla, Avatar, all make 112 cabinets with H75 or M75 Creambacks. If you decide on a Vintage 30 speaker, there are tons of those from different brands also. Zilla and Avatar would let you choose your cabinet style, tolex color etc, and your speaker separately, then build and ship. Avatar is usually regarded as being a good value, compared to some of these other names, I have a 2x12 from them that I've played for over a decade. Nothing fancy about it but it's rock solid and seems to sound good enough, with the right speaker/amp combination. Sometimes it can be a bit on the bright side, so it's better with speakers that don't emphasize that. Every cabinet is going to sound a little different so in an ideal world you wouldn't buy blind, but people do anyway.
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 11:23:53 GMT -6
If I can give even more advice, as a guitar player with too much free time, I would maybe look at an empty Mojotone 1x12 cabinet, style of your choice, and add your chosen speaker. They are great cabinets, made in North Carolina, I have a large 1x12 here with an Eminence Cannabis Rex and it's a wonderful thing, although no, that is not a versatile speaker, very specific. It's good with my Fender head, but not some of the others. The cabinet build quality is completely satisfactory. The one I have is pine so it's really easy to carry around. If you are the tinkering type, this is a fun project. Friedman, Morgan, Synergy, Wampler, Zilla, Avatar, all make 112 cabinets with H75 or M75 Creambacks. If you decide on a Vintage 30 speaker, there are tons of those from different brands also. Zilla and Avatar would let you choose your cabinet style, tolex color etc, and your speaker separately, then build and ship. Avatar is usually regarded as being a good value, compared to some of these other names, I have a 2x12 from them that I've played for over a decade. Nothing fancy about it but it's rock solid and seems to sound good enough, with the right speaker/amp combination. Sometimes it can be a bit on the bright side, so it's better with speakers that don't emphasize that. Every cabinet is going to sound a little different so in an ideal world you wouldn't buy blind, but people do anyway. Wow thanks! There's so much more to getting the tone right than would seem immediately apparent. I guess as guitar is the most expressive of instruments then every little detail adds up to the overall tone and feel.
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Post by bricejchandler on May 7, 2021 11:25:11 GMT -6
I find that with a Fender head, an ac15/30 and some kind of Marshall JMPish head I can do about anything. Then I'd get a couple super cheap amps for vibe parts, like those tiny harmony, Gretsch amps, whatever seems cool and cheap! What I like about your suggestion is the amp heads are a reasonable cost. My Princeton 68 CPR cost me £840 and sounds great .... and I see an AC15 head is £500 and I'm sure also sounds great. But a Two Rock mini head is £2,700 which is just crazy unless your a pro of course.
Q. Which Marshall head do you suggest would add to a Fender and AC15.
Q. Also, can you suggest a 1 x12 cab to fit well with all three amps.
Should it be open or closed back for a recording setting?
Thank you
I personally have a 63 Princeton, a 57 Deluxe reissue, an AC15 and I have access to a 70s JMP that sounds awesome and I feel like I can do pretty much anything with that rig ( besides metal ). You can get a Fender, vox and nice marshall+ a great cab and a couple speakers for the price of a Two Rock head. I'm sure they sound great but I'd rather have options, particularly since like 90% of rock/pop has been recorded with relatively basic Fender/vox/marshall amps. The Studio Vintage Marshall 20watt head is great and sounds very very very close to a nice Plexi, a little less energy in the low end but anyway you're not going to be blasting it and those Jmps and plexis need to be loud ! The Studio Vintage is really made for lower volume recording. I had one for a couple of months and got great tracks. If ever I get a studio up and running again, that would be my choice for a Marshall type amp. The Friedman head is really cool too but expensive. The Marshall Vintage Modern can sound incredible in the right hands and with the right tubes. I have a friend who picked a head up for 250€ and with his Les Paul it sounds amazing but it has to be loud, like really loud, the Studio Vintage is more adapted to home recording. The AC15 head is great but I'd experiment with tubes a bit, The ones that came with the amp I have were pretty meh. As far as cabs go, I really really like Bogners and I tend to gravitate towards open backs just because I only play combo amps and I'm used to that sound. I would alos pick up a few speakers to see what you like.I personally switch between Celestion Blues and Greens depending on the mood. The Greens have more bite, the Blues are bigger, smoother. It's also nice to have a V30 around, I don't use it much but for some rock stuff it really works.
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Post by notneeson on May 7, 2021 12:10:18 GMT -6
Head in the control room, cabinet in the live room is an awesome way to go, speaking from experience. But, it’s actually a little like using a sim in that it feels slightly more at a remove from the amp/instrument interactions you get in the room. It actually made me appreciate sims more, although I love amps and can’t imagine ever giving them up. Funny you should say that - I friend just dropped of his Ironman II for me to try with my Princeton and he said keep the amp in the control room so you get the interaction - just put on headphones. Problem is I'm not keen on headphones and avoid them where possible! There's so many options and so many approaches. Oh yeah, headphones are also a bit the same. It’s ok for tracking but definitely my least fav way of playing my electric guitars for pleasure. When I have done the amp in another room thing I’ve always played to the monitors. It’s all a compromise really. Live in the room with a full band and full bleed is pretty satisfying.
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Post by thehightenor on May 7, 2021 14:08:33 GMT -6
What I like about your suggestion is the amp heads are a reasonable cost. My Princeton 68 CPR cost me £840 and sounds great .... and I see an AC15 head is £500 and I'm sure also sounds great. But a Two Rock mini head is £2,700 which is just crazy unless your a pro of course.
Q. Which Marshall head do you suggest would add to a Fender and AC15.
Q. Also, can you suggest a 1 x12 cab to fit well with all three amps.
Should it be open or closed back for a recording setting?
Thank you
I personally have a 63 Princeton, a 57 Deluxe reissue, an AC15 and I have access to a 70s JMP that sounds awesome and I feel like I can do pretty much anything with that rig ( besides metal ). You can get a Fender, vox and nice marshall+ a great cab and a couple speakers for the price of a Two Rock head. I'm sure they sound great but I'd rather have options, particularly since like 90% of rock/pop has been recorded with relatively basic Fender/vox/marshall amps. The Studio Vintage Marshall 20watt head is great and sounds very very very close to a nice Plexi, a little less energy in the low end but anyway you're not going to be blasting it and those Jmps and plexis need to be loud ! The Studio Vintage is really made for lower volume recording. I had one for a couple of months and got great tracks. If ever I get a studio up and running again, that would be my choice for a Marshall type amp. The Friedman head is really cool too but expensive. The Marshall Vintage Modern can sound incredible in the right hands and with the right tubes. I have a friend who picked a head up for 250€ and with his Les Paul it sounds amazing but it has to be loud, like really loud, the Studio Vintage is more adapted to home recording. The AC15 head is great but I'd experiment with tubes a bit, The ones that came with the amp I have were pretty meh. As far as cabs go, I really really like Bogners and I tend to gravitate towards open backs just because I only play combo amps and I'm used to that sound. I would alos pick up a few speakers to see what you like.I personally switch between Celestion Blues and Greens depending on the mood. The Greens have more bite, the Blues are bigger, smoother. It's also nice to have a V30 around, I don't use it much but for some rock stuff it really works. Perfect - I just checked and those amp heads are sensibly priced and in the same price bracket as the Princeton 68 CPR. I'm going to get a demo of the Vox and Marshall - I'd love a 57 Deluxe - I really love that sound. The hand wired amps like Morgan's are very expensive for studio only use at low volumes with an attenuator like an ironman II. Where as the amps you've suggested probably sound 90% as good for 1/3 the price. Thanks
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Post by ragan on May 7, 2021 14:30:11 GMT -6
Another option is to just build your own cabs. For my main two amps (Deluxe Reverb and AC15) I just ordered speakers and built little cabs that I would either stick in an ISO box I built or somewhere else in the house. Sometimes I haul gear up to my family's cabin and stick the cabs out in the shop, 50' away and just track in the cabin as a 'control room'. The extra cabs are super handy and not expensive if you build them yourself. i.ibb.co/8dmS51N/IMG-8043.jpgi.ibb.co/yNFtrMP/image.png
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