Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 9:48:25 GMT -6
I've always been a fan of the blue bottle, it works very well on my voice but the price is a bit steep. I tried the ISK 2B and it sounds great, unfortunately it has developed a fault and it can give you a bit of a shock when you touch the microphone. Due to the pandemic I doubt I'll be able to get a generation 2, also I wouldn't mind trying something different.
So, are there any other decent tube mic's similar to the bottle out there?
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Apr 26, 2021 9:55:13 GMT -6
Which capsule are you using on the Bottle? JZ still makes some of the capsules, so they might have a mic that sounds similar -- although I don't think they are producing tube mics anymore.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 10:02:48 GMT -6
Which capsule are you using on the Bottle? JZ still makes some of the capsules, so they might have a mic that sounds similar -- although I don't think they are producing tube mics anymore. I did actually ask the studio tech what capsule it was, I believe it was the B6. I don't personally own one, they're quite a bit out of my price range ..
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Apr 26, 2021 10:34:41 GMT -6
I wonder if your microphone, can be repaired by the manufacturer? Chris
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Apr 26, 2021 10:55:32 GMT -6
The bottle like most Blue mics is fairly unique... possibly a Blue Kiwi? It's a mic you'll probably either love or hate.
Another suspect would be the Blue bottle rocket which is solid state but uses the same capsules as the tube bottle. So if you have a favorite capsule you can pop it on the rocket and at least be in the same starting spot.
The Bottle is based on a Neumann cmv 3 & it's direct descendent is the cmv 563, which I think is or at least was still in production recently by Gefell but, IIRC not inexpensive at $5 or 6k.
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Apr 26, 2021 11:01:23 GMT -6
Which capsule are you using on the Bottle? JZ still makes some of the capsules, so they might have a mic that sounds similar -- although I don't think they are producing tube mics anymore. I did actually ask the studio tech what capsule it was, I believe it was the B6. I don't personally own one, they're quite a bit out of my price range ..
OK -- In case you weren't aware, Blue separated from JZ/Violet Designs many years ago. Violet Designs is gone, having been reclaimed by JZ mics.
The old Blue B6 capsule was made by JZ. That is probably the capsule you were using. JZ still makes a similar capsule, the GDC67, that is in their Amethyst and Vintage 67 mics. Both those mics are very nice and very similar. You might want to consider either the Amethyst or V67 as a substitute for the Bottle w/ B6.
JZ runs sales every 5-6 months, so you'd want to wait for that.
There's a YouToob video by "SonicScoop" that compares the V67 with the Amethyst. That might give you an idea about the flava...
Note: I may have the B6 confused with the B7 capsule. I'm seeing conflicting info on this.
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Apr 26, 2021 11:25:42 GMT -6
The bottle like most Blue mics is fairly unique... possibly a Blue Kiwi? It's a mic you'll probably either love or hate. Another suspect would be the Blue bottle rocket which is solid state but uses the same capsules as the tube bottle. So if you have a favorite capsule you can pop it on the rocket and at least be in the same starting spot. The Bottle is based on a Neumann cmv 3 & it's direct descendent is the cmv 563, which I think is or at least was still in production recently by Gefell but, IIRC not inexpensive at $5 or 6k. Since the breakup with JZ, the Blue B6 capsule is a little different. It's probably worth it for the OP to dig into those changes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 12:27:51 GMT -6
I wonder if your microphone, can be repaired by the manufacturer? Chris Appreciate all the responses so far, Chris from ISK did offer to get it repaired and TBH I should have taken him up on the offer but I moved to new premises and didn't do any audio work for a couple of years. Now I'm back in the game I have to go through all my equipment, see what works / what doesn't etc. Including shipping / potential taxes that have arisen out of recent events etc. it could actually be cheaper to buy one new. Chris gave me a right discount because I bulk ordered like 10 mics from them. In our current climate though I don't think ISK are even selling new mic's..
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 26, 2021 13:04:56 GMT -6
Have you considered replacing based on your budget? I've been getting some very good results from cserrano's S87 - which is a close clone of the vintage U87. I have originals to compqre it too, as do others here. If you going to end up spending over $675 on repairs, you could just sell it for parts and Get Serrano's clone.
|
|
|
Post by hadaja on Apr 26, 2021 13:05:07 GMT -6
Vincent is the Blue Bottle expert around here. I believe he had most of the capsules at one point. I did have the Rocket Stage 2 a few years back but it was not a keeper for me. Was the Blue Bottle model you had the flag ship model or another Blue model? They do sound different. Luke Audio makes a similar type of mic though i have never used his one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 14:03:21 GMT -6
Have you considered replacing based on your budget? I've been getting some very good results from cserrano 's S87 - which is a close clone of the vintage U87. I have originals to compqre it too, as do others here. If you going to end up spending over $675 on repairs, you could just sell it for parts and Get Serrano's clone. Yes, I like the ISK and 67 sounding microphones but I won't deny there's better microphones for my voice. I'm quite a powerful yet deep singer at times and seem to bring out the worst in a lot of mic's. The GZ67 didn't work, an actual U67 was hit and miss (too boomy on close up parts and too gritty when pelting it). Of course mic technique accounts for a lot of this but with an MD-441 for example I spend less time focussing on the microphone and more time on performance. It has been my "go to" for a while and IMO the leader of dynamics.. Although for specific parts of a song some condensers simply sound better. I usually tear apart cheap condensers so they're a no go, too much shrill end and unsightly harmonics.. A U87AI doesn't work, although a U87 could.. I can usually fathom it out from clip examples, any sign of a slightly shrill mid range and I'll exacerbate it ten times over in a strong chorus. Here's a list of mic's that do / do not work, if it helps anyone to figure it out.. Trying out mic's is difficult (especially in todays climate) so I do rely on others to narrow search parameters. AKG D5 (used for live singing): Nope. ISK 2B: Yes, although hard to fit into a dense song. SM7B: No. MD441: Yes, of course. U47 FET: Yes. U67: Sometimes. U89: Yes but doesn't wow me on vox.
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Apr 26, 2021 14:05:59 GMT -6
OK -- In case you weren't aware, Blue separated from JZ/Violet Designs many years ago. Violet Designs is gone, having been reclaimed by JZ mics.
The old Blue B6 capsule was made by JZ. That is probably the capsule you were using. JZ still makes a similar capsule, the GDC67, that is in their Amethyst and Vintage 67 mics. Both those mics are very nice and very similar. You might want to consider either the Amethyst or V67 as a substitute for the Bottle w/ B6. Yes JZ / Violet was split from Blue long ago... Probably 15 years at this point. Matter of fact they were sued by and lost to Blue in both the USA and EU for several things including breech of contract and IP infringement. No need to rehash old stuff, its all a matter of public record at this point anyone can pull up the court documents & rulings. Not sure where Blue mics are being made today and the status of things but I can't imagine they'd have reinvented the wheel. And like I said, it happened well over a decade ago. I have a few of the original Latvian built microphones which I bought directly from Skipper Wise including Baby Bottle #47 or 48. They get used all the time and are excellent instruments which I treasure. I also have a couple of their newer Encore dynamic mics and they're really good too!
|
|
|
Post by recordingengineer on Apr 26, 2021 14:49:09 GMT -6
Have you considered replacing based on your budget? I've been getting some very good results from cserrano 's S87 - which is a close clone of the vintage U87. I have originals to compqre it too, as do others here. If you going to end up spending over $675 on repairs, you could just sell it for parts and Get Serrano's clone. Yes, I like the ISK and 67 sounding microphones but I won't deny there's better microphones for my voice. I'm quite a powerful yet deep singer at times and seem to bring out the worst in a lot of mic's. The GZ67 didn't work, an actual U67 was hit and miss (too boomy on close up parts and too gritty when pelting it). Of course mic technique accounts for a lot of this but with an MD-441 for example I spend less time focussing on the microphone and more time on performance. It has been my "go to" for a while and IMO the leader of dynamics.. Although for specific parts of a song some condensers simply sound better. I usually tear apart cheap condensers so they're a no go, too much shrill end and unsightly harmonics.. A U87AI doesn't work, although a U87 could.. I can usually fathom it out from clip examples, any sign of a slightly shrill mid range and I'll exacerbate it ten times over in a strong chorus. Here's a list of mic's that do / do not work, if it helps anyone to figure it out.. Trying out mic's is difficult (especially in todays climate) so I do rely on others to narrow search parameters. AKG D5 (used for live singing): Nope. ISK 2B: Yes, although hard to fit into a dense song. SM7B: No. MD441: Yes, of course. U47 FET: Yes. U67: Sometimes. U89: Yes but doesn't wow me on vox. Sounds like a Sony-style capsule mic is called for.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2021 15:39:24 GMT -6
OK -- In case you weren't aware, Blue separated from JZ/Violet Designs many years ago. Violet Designs is gone, having been reclaimed by JZ mics.
The old Blue B6 capsule was made by JZ. That is probably the capsule you were using. JZ still makes a similar capsule, the GDC67, that is in their Amethyst and Vintage 67 mics. Both those mics are very nice and very similar. You might want to consider either the Amethyst or V67 as a substitute for the Bottle w/ B6. Yes JZ / Violet was split from Blue long ago... Probably 15 years at this point. Matter of fact they were sued by and lost to Blue in both the USA and EU for several things including breech of contract and IP infringement. No need to rehash old stuff, its all a matter of public record at this point anyone can pull up the court documents & rulings. Not sure where Blue mics are being made today and the status of things but I can't imagine they'd have reinvented the wheel. And like I said, it happened well over a decade ago. I have a few of the original Latvian built microphones which I bought directly from Skipper Wise including Baby Bottle #47 or 48. They get used all the time and are excellent instruments which I treasure. I also have a couple of their newer Encore dynamic mics and they're really good too! Current Blue capsule are a disappointment next to the old ones.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 15:45:46 GMT -6
Yes, I like the ISK and 67 sounding microphones but I won't deny there's better microphones for my voice. I'm quite a powerful yet deep singer at times and seem to bring out the worst in a lot of mic's. The GZ67 didn't work, an actual U67 was hit and miss (too boomy on close up parts and too gritty when pelting it). Of course mic technique accounts for a lot of this but with an MD-441 for example I spend less time focussing on the microphone and more time on performance. It has been my "go to" for a while and IMO the leader of dynamics.. Although for specific parts of a song some condensers simply sound better. I usually tear apart cheap condensers so they're a no go, too much shrill end and unsightly harmonics.. A U87AI doesn't work, although a U87 could.. I can usually fathom it out from clip examples, any sign of a slightly shrill mid range and I'll exacerbate it ten times over in a strong chorus. Here's a list of mic's that do / do not work, if it helps anyone to figure it out.. Trying out mic's is difficult (especially in todays climate) so I do rely on others to narrow search parameters. AKG D5 (used for live singing): Nope. ISK 2B: Yes, although hard to fit into a dense song. SM7B: No. MD441: Yes, of course. U47 FET: Yes. U67: Sometimes. U89: Yes but doesn't wow me on vox. Sounds like a Sony-style capsule mic is called for. I did consider the Sony C100 when it was released but it's a bit bright for me..
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Apr 26, 2021 15:48:41 GMT -6
Have you sang/tried a U47 tube style mic yet? Also 44 Ribbon? Chris
|
|
|
Post by recordingengineer on Apr 26, 2021 16:28:51 GMT -6
Sounds like a Sony-style capsule mic is called for. I did consider the Sony C100 when it was released but it's a bit bright for me.. I’m thinking of the classic Sony-style capsule; as used in the C37A, C38B, C800 (non G), some Josephson mics, a Manley mic, and now Tonelux has a cardioid-only version of a C37A remake.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2021 17:17:18 GMT -6
Sounds like a Sony-style capsule mic is called for. I did consider the Sony C100 when it was released but it's a bit bright for me.. It is but the thing that bugged the hell out of this Sony mic lover ( currently own 6 or 7 Sony’s) is the sonic differences in the 2 capsules! You can hear where it crosses over and if used as a Stereo pair It just sounds strange how the high freq and the lows suddenly have these very different polar responses.
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Apr 26, 2021 18:03:01 GMT -6
Current Blue capsule are a disappointment next to the old ones. How current are you talking? And how old is old? I actually looked it up and Blue ceased all business with JZ/Scruples and moved operations in October 2004. So... not exactly a recent occurrence. Like I said, not looking to rehash ancient history but I occasionally read stuff like you said and wonder what I'm missing..?
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Apr 26, 2021 19:51:58 GMT -6
If you were using the B6 on the Bottle here are a few things to note. It’s a K67 capsule tuned to have a frequency response a bit like a C12 with a low mid boost. The Kiwi is essentially the FET version of the mic. It works really well with a clean tube preamp like the Demeter VTMP. It’s a great sound.
I had the BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II with most of the main caps. The B6 was really nice for a forward more modern sound. I had really wanted to upgrade to the Bottle, but never had the funds to do it. The Bottle is a bit more open with a bigger sound than the Bottle Rocket Stage II. I really disliked the Stage I. It always sounded dull.
I might look at the RMS 269. It’s a little beefier, but has that openness that worked in the B6 Bottle Rocket combo. Maybe a U87ai with the inner tube mod. Not sure how much you’re looking to spend. I would just keep your eyes out for a used Bottle. They got really low before the pandemic, but it’s been a while. I’d love to grab the Bottle at some point. The Bottle Rocket Stage II was a great extra mic when I needed it, but it never really outshined my FleA 49 or U67. With the B11 it served as my 67 style mic for a while until I got the U67 together (modded MK67). The B7 had a nice 47ish flavor too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 20:34:53 GMT -6
Thanks for the insightful post Vincent, unfortunately mods / imports aren't on the cards at the moment due to the climate. I did really like the RMS 269 though, probably the sort of mic I'd go for..
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2021 20:39:23 GMT -6
Current Blue capsule are a disappointment next to the old ones. How current are you talking? And how old is old? I actually looked it up and Blue ceased all business with JZ/Scruples and moved operations in October 2004. So... not exactly a recent occurrence. Like I said, not looking to rehash ancient history but I occasionally read stuff like you said and wonder what I'm missing..? J I’ll start this with a possible conflict alert, in the early 2000’s after I had already left my former Employer’s wholesale division was the US JZ distributor and even after that for a short time a friend took over. At first in the early 2000’s I thought the rumors of the Decline in Blues capsules was an internet urban legend. So I bought a Mixed pair of Dragonfly’s and Blueberry used. The Dragonfly’s didn’t sound the same and had some distance between serial #s, the Blueberry had this huge honk to it that shocked the hell out of me. Me being me I made some phone calls and via serial #’s discovered the Dragonfly I liked was a 2000 the others 2006. I took the Dragonfly’s to the Houston GC (irony less than a block from A&P Pawn where I had bought the mics) To see if I could at least try a new Dragonfly and see if the one I found lifeless and blah had a problem, it didn’t the 3 I tried all sounded like they needed to be put on a respirator. So I flipped them all as individual mics. That was 2007. Ever since then I have flipped about 6 different Blues and all but one were just Blah. Each time I would try to audition the current version and Blah.
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Apr 28, 2021 12:45:39 GMT -6
J I’ll start this with a possible conflict alert, in the early 2000’s after I had already left my former Employer’s wholesale division was the US JZ distributor and even after that for a short time a friend took over. At first in the early 2000’s I thought the rumors of the Decline in Blues capsules was an internet urban legend. So I bought a Mixed pair of Dragonfly’s and Blueberry used. The Dragonfly’s didn’t sound the same and had some distance between serial #s, the Blueberry had this huge honk to it that shocked the hell out of me. Me being me I made some phone calls and via serial #’s discovered the Dragonfly I liked was a 2000 the others 2006. I took the Dragonfly’s to the Houston GC (irony less than a block from A&P Pawn where I had bought the mics) To see if I could at least try a new Dragonfly and see if the one I found lifeless and blah had a problem, it didn’t the 3 I tried all sounded like they needed to be put on a respirator. So I flipped them all as individual mics. That was 2007. Ever since then I have flipped about 6 different Blues and all but one were just Blah. Each time I would try to audition the current version and Blah. That's cool. Good (bad? lol) experience and I can see that. I've never had an opportunity to put a "new" Blue up against an older version, not that I've known about anyway. FWIW I've found the Blueberry to be a rather odd sounding mic. I have a pair of Dragonfly's that I bought from Skipper in geez... 2003 maybe? They're certainly usable as a pair and get hung that way all the time... one of my favorite overheads. In a good sounding room anyway! Still I'd have to think that if someone used and liked a mic built in 2011 that a new 2021 wouldn't be much different. But again I just don't have that direct experience. For the record I can say that I have used and liked a handful of their stuff from the last several years. My old studio partner found a Bluebird on Craigslist w/o box or mount for I think $100. We did a shootout on acoustic & percussion against some much more expensive stuff and that $300 mic more then held its own. Was kind of shocking how good & usable it was... Years ago a $300 mic sounded like garbage. As for the Violet/JZ or however they identify these days I really have no opinion because I've never even seen one in person. Not in a store, not in a pro studio, not in a home studio, not in a remote fly pack... which as a lifetime freelancer kinda says a lot. Not that I'm saying anything, but I'm just saying...
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Apr 28, 2021 14:17:59 GMT -6
J I’ll start this with a possible conflict alert, in the early 2000’s after I had already left my former Employer’s wholesale division was the US JZ distributor and even after that for a short time a friend took over. At first in the early 2000’s I thought the rumors of the Decline in Blues capsules was an internet urban legend. So I bought a Mixed pair of Dragonfly’s and Blueberry used. The Dragonfly’s didn’t sound the same and had some distance between serial #s, the Blueberry had this huge honk to it that shocked the hell out of me. Me being me I made some phone calls and via serial #’s discovered the Dragonfly I liked was a 2000 the others 2006. I took the Dragonfly’s to the Houston GC (irony less than a block from A&P Pawn where I had bought the mics) To see if I could at least try a new Dragonfly and see if the one I found lifeless and blah had a problem, it didn’t the 3 I tried all sounded like they needed to be put on a respirator. So I flipped them all as individual mics. That was 2007. Ever since then I have flipped about 6 different Blues and all but one were just Blah. Each time I would try to audition the current version and Blah. That's cool. Good (bad? lol) experience and I can see that. I've never had an opportunity to put a "new" Blue up against an older version, not that I've known about anyway. FWIW I've found the Blueberry to be a rather odd sounding mic. I have a pair of Dragonfly's that I bought from Skipper in geez... 2003 maybe? They're certainly usable as a pair and get hung that way all the time... one of my favorite overheads. In a good sounding room anyway! Still I'd have to think that if someone used and liked a mic built in 2011 that a new 2021 wouldn't be much different. But again I just don't have that direct experience. For the record I can say that I have used and liked a handful of their stuff from the last several years. My old studio partner found a Bluebird on Craigslist w/o box or mount for I think $100. We did a shootout on acoustic & percussion against some much more expensive stuff and that $300 mic more then held its own. Was kind of shocking how good & usable it was... Years ago a $300 mic sounded like garbage. As for the Violet/JZ or however they identify these days I really have no opinion because I've never even seen one in person. Not in a store, not in a pro studio, not in a home studio, not in a remote fly pack... which as a lifetime freelancer kinda says a lot. Not that I'm saying anything, but I'm just saying... The difference is that Blue moved production to China and Chinese capsules are mostly crap.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 22:29:05 GMT -6
Sounds like a Sony-style capsule mic is called for. Definitely come round to your way of thinking, the Stam 800 clone sounds perfect.. Nothing harsh, tube kicks in when pushing it and smooths things out but remains detailed enough. Only issue is, I can't buy one from STAM and even if I could I'll have probably recorded three albums by the time I get it. So the other option is the Advance Audio CM800T.. Apparently close but not an exact replica and there is literally no samples or information on it. Did anyone else look into them, hear some clips? Can you share? I know @vincent_R. did a lot with the AA mic's.
|
|