|
Cymbals
Apr 13, 2021 13:37:47 GMT -6
Post by thirdeye on Apr 13, 2021 13:37:47 GMT -6
Hey there, I'm looking for recommendations for an all around, workhorse cymbal setup for the studio. Ideally something on the quieter/darker side if it exists. Durable, balanced and works for a variety of genres. Is there such a thing? I'd start with hat, ride and two crashes, probably hat and ride first.
We have some Zildjian A Customs now, master sound 14" hi hats, medium thin crashes 16" and 18", and a 20" ride. We bought them used a few years ago. The crashes record a little bright and the ride is pretty loud compared to the rest of the cymbals. I've used new beat hi hats and liked them, maybe we should go that route??
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Apr 13, 2021 13:39:42 GMT -6
I’ve liked the Zildjian K Dark crashes quite a bit. They record well if you’re not wanting modern/bright/glassy.
|
|
|
Post by din on Apr 13, 2021 13:50:50 GMT -6
Meinl Byzance Jazz Tradition or Zildjian K Constantinople
|
|
|
Post by jpanderson80 on Apr 13, 2021 13:55:26 GMT -6
I'm a Zildjian K guy myself. They are quieter than A's and can have a darker feel for sure. I think that they work better in recordings because they can blend better than A's.
I haven't played all the brands, but for Zildjians, K's and some of the older hand hammered models are great.
Check out Memphis Drum Shop for nice quality YT samples of the various brands & models. That should give you a general idea. Then narrow that down by specific cymbals if need be.
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Apr 13, 2021 16:25:50 GMT -6
Just curious: what mics are you using for overheads?
Those Zildjian A's should sound great. Is your drummer a good musician?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 17:18:20 GMT -6
1) Zildjian lightweight a or k darks played by good drummers. If you have doubts about your drummer, he probably is not good and don’t let him use your real deal cymbals like the ones I just mentioned because he will probably break them.
2) Use good overheads, not overly bright modern condensers.
3) Don’t for godsakes high pass your overheads at 1khz or some other lame modern rock or poser metal bs they do to keep the sound of midi drum pads out of the overheads. The transients are not just in the highs and you’ll make all the cymbal hits brittle with that high up of a high pass filter.
4) Crank the overheads in his headphone mix to prevent him from slamming the cymbals like a gorilla. This works unless he’s deaf. He’s a drummer so he might be deaf anyway.
|
|
|
Post by thirdeye on Apr 13, 2021 19:16:54 GMT -6
Just curious: what mics are you using for overheads? Those Zildjian A's should sound great. Is your drummer a good musician? Hey there, we will use a variety of different overheads, just depends on what we are feeling on a given day or if we want to experiment. Anything from a single R88, to a pair of MA200s or 414s, KM84s, SU013s, C61s, vintage 451s, just depends. Nothing extraordinary, but adequate I think. The drummers we record vary from very experienced professional 1st take drummers, to beginners and it's their first time in the studio. I like the sound of the Zildjian As, but I want to see about getting some darker sounding cymbals. The ride we have is definitely very loud compared to the rest of the cymbals. I'd like to soften that up.
|
|
|
Cymbals
Apr 13, 2021 19:23:51 GMT -6
Post by thirdeye on Apr 13, 2021 19:23:51 GMT -6
1) Zildjian lightweight a or k darks played by good drummers. If you have doubts about your drummer, he probably is not good and don’t let him use your real deal cymbals like the ones I just mentioned because he will probably break them. 2) Use good overheads, not overly bright modern condensers. 3) Don’t for godsakes high pass your overheads at 1khz or some other lame modern rock or poser metal bs they do to keep the sound of midi drum pads out of the overheads. The transients are not just in the highs and you’ll make all the cymbal hits brittle with that high up of a high pass filter. 4) Crank the overheads in his headphone mix to prevent him from slamming the cymbals like a gorilla. This works unless he’s deaf. He’s a drummer so he might be deaf anyway. It's just for our "house" kit. Quite often people will opt to use it because it's convenient and sounds decent, but often bring their own snare (s) and sometimes their own cymbals to swap out or supplement our's. I just want to have some other workhorse options, and a darker balanced sound from the source is what I desire. We don't really use overly bright condensers or go crazy with HPFs. I'm not a huge fan of that sound. I'll probably check out some K Darks. I just found out a friend has some for sale, so hopefully I'll be able to hear them soon.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 13, 2021 20:08:03 GMT -6
Bigger crash cymbals record better. a 22" ride is big enough however. And I try to stick with dark and dry. They just sound nicer in a mix.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 20:31:20 GMT -6
1) Zildjian lightweight a or k darks played by good drummers. If you have doubts about your drummer, he probably is not good and don’t let him use your real deal cymbals like the ones I just mentioned because he will probably break them. 2) Use good overheads, not overly bright modern condensers. 3) Don’t for godsakes high pass your overheads at 1khz or some other lame modern rock or poser metal bs they do to keep the sound of midi drum pads out of the overheads. The transients are not just in the highs and you’ll make all the cymbal hits brittle with that high up of a high pass filter. 4) Crank the overheads in his headphone mix to prevent him from slamming the cymbals like a gorilla. This works unless he’s deaf. He’s a drummer so he might be deaf anyway. It's just for our "house" kit. Quite often people will opt to use it because it's convenient and sounds decent, but often bring their own snare (s) and sometimes their own cymbals to swap out or supplement our's. I just want to have some other workhorse options, and a darker balanced sound from the source is what I desire. We don't really use overly bright condensers or go crazy with HPFs. I'm not a huge fan of that sound. I'll probably check out some K Darks. I just found out a friend has some for sale, so hopefully I'll be able to hear them soon. Don't let any neanderthals crack them!
|
|
|
Post by brenta on Apr 13, 2021 20:35:23 GMT -6
I went with a mix of Zildjian K's and Sabian HHX here for my house kit. My hi hats are reversible zildjian k's which is nice; easy to get two different sounds. I've got a zildjian K dark ride, but the ride that gets used 95% of the time is a Sabian HHX Omni. It can get a pretty wide variety of sounds depending where you hit it. The knock on it is that sometimes its not loud enough for stage use but that's an asset in the studio.
|
|
|
Cymbals
Apr 13, 2021 20:40:15 GMT -6
Post by thirdeye on Apr 13, 2021 20:40:15 GMT -6
I went with a mix of Zildjian K's and Sabian HHX here for my house kit. My hi hats are reversible zildjian k's which is nice; easy to get two different sounds. I've got a zildjian K dark ride, but the ride that gets used 95% of the time is a Sabian HHX Omni. It can get a pretty wide variety of sounds depending where you hit it. The knock on it is that sometimes its not loud enough for stage use but that's an asset in the studio. What size is your HHX Omni ride??
|
|
|
Post by brenta on Apr 13, 2021 21:40:08 GMT -6
I went with a mix of Zildjian K's and Sabian HHX here for my house kit. My hi hats are reversible zildjian k's which is nice; easy to get two different sounds. I've got a zildjian K dark ride, but the ride that gets used 95% of the time is a Sabian HHX Omni. It can get a pretty wide variety of sounds depending where you hit it. The knock on it is that sometimes its not loud enough for stage use but that's an asset in the studio. What size is your HHX Omni ride?? 22". I've been super happy with it. Drummers almost always choose it over their own ride.
|
|
jits
Full Member
Posts: 28
|
Post by jits on Apr 13, 2021 22:20:27 GMT -6
Ride - Zildjian K custom organic 21". Have it and love it! Lots of control, not bright but can be played to cut through if needed, very articulate! Crash - Zildjian K constantinople - records very well
|
|
|
Post by drastic on Apr 13, 2021 22:50:57 GMT -6
What size is your HHX Omni ride?? 22". I've been super happy with it. Drummers almost always choose it over their own ride. I’ll have to check that out, I’m a fan of the HHX stuff. Been using the HHX Complex stuff the last few years, totally digging them 👍👍
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Apr 14, 2021 0:21:03 GMT -6
There are a ton of cymbal makers in Turkey that are making nice cymbals. I just got an Istanbul Mahmet crash that is lovely, not bright, but not ridiculously dark, and I cracked a Bosphorus (because I had a mic stand to close to it) that also sounded great. I have a dry Anatolian ride that is also really cool. The newer Zildjians don't seem to have the same magic of the older ones, but I haven't been playing that many new ones lately. Hazelshould has some really cool cymbals, with really good recordings of what you'll be getting.
|
|
|
Post by allbuttonmode on Apr 14, 2021 2:03:19 GMT -6
The right cymbals for recording is a never ending quest. At least for me (I'm a drummer first). Personally, I've had most luck with Istanbul Agop cymbals, but, that said, I had to go through a whole bunch at the shop to find the right ones. No two cymbals sound remotely alike, even in the same brand/model/size. It's a nightmare process, but very necessary.
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Apr 14, 2021 3:30:19 GMT -6
Istanbul Agop's are the shit. The best ones are thin, and they will break without good technique
My all-round set is Paiste traditionals. Typically they sit inside the mix, but have enough stick definition to be heard
Paiste big beats are a cheaper option
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Apr 14, 2021 4:33:59 GMT -6
Another +1 for the 21" K Organic Ride, that jits mentioned. It's dark and dry, not super loud, but loud enough.
If I need something brighter with a little more ping I'll use my 20" "K Ride"
Used to have a 22" A Ping Ride. that thing was so loud, washy, and bright, that I feel your pain, if you have anything similar. My 18" A Medium Crash is also uninspiring, but functional.
I'm more picky about rides than I am about hi hats and crashes, but I like the K hi hats and crashes too, even though I'll use A's or Sabian AAX for those sometimes too.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 14, 2021 5:38:49 GMT -6
I'll probably check out some K Darks. I just found out a friend has some for sale, so hopefully I'll be able to hear them soon. The K Darks have pretty much become the Indy world standard for recording cymbals.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 14, 2021 6:22:54 GMT -6
I mostly use a 20" A Custom Projection Crash as my ride. More mellow than most rides and crashes nice if you want to build. Also have a vintage Avedis 20" ride that's very nice.
I've got 17" and 19" K Dark Thin crashes that sound fab. Also 17" and 18" A Custom crashes that I really like.
For hats I'm either using 13" K Custom Mastersound Hybrid or 14" Soultones.
I've got a bunch of others that seldom get used.
19" A Custom Projection Crash - Too heavy to use as a regular crash usually. 20" A Custom Projection Ride - Too loud Bunch of crashes smaller than 17" are very rarely used. They just sound like toy crashes to me after using larger stuff. Pile of random hat cymbals.
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Apr 14, 2021 7:48:23 GMT -6
A nice studio alternative is to have a pair of 15" light hihats. Thin hats in general are a good idea to have around. And teach drummers to not clamp down the top cymbal on the clutch. When they go for the half open thing ANY pair of cymbals will sound better in the top cymbal can actually move.
A lot of cymbals seem to be designed to cut over loud hi-gain guitar amps. They do that, but never sound good doing it, so try to find thinner cymbals for recording.
|
|
|
Cymbals
Apr 14, 2021 16:06:13 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by guitfiddler on Apr 14, 2021 16:06:13 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the Zildjian K sweet cymbals? What’s your opinion?
|
|
|
Post by svart on Apr 14, 2021 16:45:45 GMT -6
I have AAX dark cymbals. They have the AAX shimmer but a darker tone. I think they stretch all the world of cymbal tone.
I have a couple K's as well but they don't have that shimmer.
|
|
|
Post by junior on Apr 14, 2021 19:14:24 GMT -6
I like Zildjian A's and K's but have you considered Paiste Giant Beats, Big Beats or 602's?
|
|