Post by Guitar on Apr 13, 2021 6:36:10 GMT -6
A few people asked for this, so here we go, maybe there's something useful in here, and I'd like to hear from people who've tried some small interfaces. I am an interface and digital audio aficionado, as you might see. I love DACs.
Clarett 4Pre Thunderbolt - This one got a little hot when running, (because it's so compact,) and the chassis was a tiny bit loosey goosey, (it was used,) those are probably the reasons I sold it. But this is likely the most powerful interface on the list, you could record a whole band through it. Conversion is crisp and punchy, I am a big fan of the Clarett conversion. Back in the day I preferred it over the silver Apollo conversion. Latency performance is decent, better than a lot of these, but not as good as the top performers like RME, and so on. The Thunderbolt ones are faster than the newer USB ones. There is a pretty simple direct monitor mixer with the Claretts. People report software issues with these but I've never had any, I've owned three Clarett interfaces and still own a Clarett OctoPre. I think they are solid and they sound really good. The preamps aren't exceptional but I don't usually look to interfaces for their preamps, mostly I focus on outboard pres. The pres are a tiny bit dark until you press the Air button. The line inputs are fine. Yes you can run preamps into the line inputs, it's not an issue. People get hung up on this. The perfect middle of the road upper mid end, lower high end interface. Lacks some of the whiz-bang features of the modern high end interfaces in 2021.
Tascam UH7000 - The old standby for me. I still own two of them. I used to recommend these all the time. Great sounding DAC for 5 years ago. Our pal Jcoutu mixes through one. Great sounding mic preamps, Tascam HDIA. Everything feels kind of hi-fi about this one. The mic pres are clear and fast but have a tiny bit of color in the top end, they are flattering. I like them for acoustic guitars, voice, things like that. Drivers aren't the fastest in the world, this is not a low latency monster, you have to run the buffer kind of high. I mainly use them as a DAC and a mic preamp to expand larger interfaces. This was my main DAC for a while, I preferred it over the iD22. I preferred it over the Silver Apollo DAC. DAC is a tiny bit soft sounding in a direct A/B with the Clarett but you could call it "warmer" if you like. When people talk about "chips" the iD22 and the UH7000 were the Texas Instruments "Burr Brown" DAC's du jour at that time. Strong headphone amp. It's one of those interfaces that had great tech specs when it came out, much better than the Scarletts and things like that.
Audient iD22 - Didn't love the form factor of this or the build quality, those are my main concerns with Audient gear. It had some quirks and rough edges to it, a little unrefined. The power supply was terrible, I had to replace it with something better. In my crazy audiophile mind this improved the sound quality a bit. DAC quality is very similar to the Tascam UH7000, but there's a tiny metallic, crisp top end on the iD22. For that reason, I stuck with the Tascam, but they are very close. People talk about the preamps a lot but I never dug into them, so I can't comment much. USB drivers are generic and utilitarian, not a low latency monster at all, but they "work fine." Just don't expect mind blowing speeds. I'd like to try the iD14 MK 2 as it has everything I need from the iD22 and I'm not missing the extra stuff, plus it's modernized whatever they've done in the past few years of selling these. These Audient, Clarett, Tascam DAC's are going to sound a tiny bit "brown" in 2021 compared to modern DAC's, to borrow a phrase from the other RGO Dan.
Apollo Twin Silver Thunderbolt 2 - It's expensive. It only has 2 inputs. To me that's a bad ratio. These are extremely popular but I don't like them. To be fair it probably does perform better in general than something like an iD22, but I am an Apollo denier. They were my first "real" interfaces and I've broken up with them. Sound is fine, some people love it, some hate it, I just think it's fine. Preamps are fine, but nothing to lose sleep about not owning. I don't prefer DSP interfaces that rely on expensive plugins in a separate window, that's the main thing. I never used the Console software, it was wasted on me. I also don't like UAD marketing, that shouldn't affect my opinion of the product but it does. I don't like being spoken to that way. I bought a ton of UAD plugins so I keep a Satellite to mix with them now. The best thing about the Apollo is you know what you're getting. Good sound quality, strong build quality, reliable connection to the computer. This might be worth paying for, for some people. Everyone knows what these are so I'll move to the next one. My solution is to use low latency native interfaces that do everything, "and more" than what the Apollo claims to "own" and does not. I can track through any plugin I want now.
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 - Sold this one to a friend who really needed it, someone that was recording on Cassette tapes until this exchange. Recommended a 2i2 to another friend as a first interface. These are a great "first interface." Mainly because of the prices, and that they are not as bad as people online say they are. To someone with Focal monitors, a custom 251 vocal mic, and you get the picture, this doesn't really fit in that picture. But to someone with a bunch of electric guitars and pedals, and a drummer friend, recording in untreated rooms, this is all you need. If said person ever needed to upgrade they would. They would realize it like the rest of us do. But some people take another path, and don't need the fancy things we all need, they won't need to upgrade. This is good enough for many people. It's got a dead simple USB 2 connection, and all the basic features you need, as well as acceptable sound quality and performance. That with the low price means it's the most popular interface line in the world, or one of them.
Steinberg UR24c - Interesting thing about this one is the DSP. It has some inbuilt plugins, an EQ, reverb, some guitar amps. You could make some sound with this, without even using a DAW. They aren't top class plugins but it's fun to work in a DSP environment like this. USB C connection and can be bus powered, or take an external PSU. This is extremely useful for connecting to phones, laptops, ipads, etc. The main point of something like this. Some of the knobs feel cheap. Yamaha/Steinberg D-Pre preamps are classic interface pres. Just kind of utilitarian. They work completely fine, I tracked a good song through this one. Took a tiny bit of extra mix mojo, but I got to the finish line with that mix. DAC is also "fine." It's not reference grade, at all, but it's adequate. Better than the next one I'm about to discuss, most likely. Headphone amp could drive my HD650 decently when turned up pretty far. Ultimately the sound of this thing was just a tiny bit thin and crunchy, the achilles heel of many of these $200 boxes, so I let it go. But it was one of my overall favorites of the modern ones. It doesn't "quite" hold up on studio monitors, but for a true mobile operation, I think it would be a great performer. That's my problem with these, I've been comparing them to my $5,000 "big rig" which is a really tough fight for an all in one $200 box. But I'm chasing that dragon.
SSL2+ - I bought this because of the brand name, they hype, and the mic preamps. I got 4 free SSL plugins which is mind-blowing. Worth the purchase just for that, when it's available, an incredible package. Those Native plugins are lovely. The mic preamps are my favorite part of this one. They are bright and very punchy, they have way more personality than most $200 interface pres. Maybe not a ton of bottom on them though. Headphone amp was adequate but not exceptional, just as good as anything else, about. I hated the DAC on this thing. Despised it. Super bright with some weird coloration in the treble that scrambled my brain. For that reason I had to send it back. Bright DAC's are my personal boogie man, something I run and scream away from. It works in the pre, but not the DAC IMO. So the hype is somewhat justified on these, they are noteworthy, but they are also not going to "blow away" other $200 interfaces, unless you count the plugin bundle, then they kind of do. I didn't spend a ton of time judging driver performance, but they were stable on Windows.
Motu M4 - I'll likely end up with this one for now. Latency performance is not class leading at all, I've measured the RTL, but at least the drivers are stable. It's going to be in the same ballpark as many of the others regarding round trip time. 4 inputs is a Goldilocks number for me, much better than 2. If I need 2 more mic pres, I'll simply stick my Sound Devices 302 with Lundahl 7 series mic pres on top of this thing and likely out perform any interface on this list, right into the two TRS line inputs on the back. The "big deal" about the MOTU is the ESS Sabre DAC chips and the technical specifications they were able to achieve. These are clean, quiet, precise interfaces, not something we're completely used to in a $200 5 volt powered interface until now. It has better "technical" performance than some high end boxes, including my main DAC in fact. I use a Topping DX7S so I love the ESS sound, it's my favorite. The Topping is a little beefier sounding, more huge. But the MOTU DAC is good on speakers too, a little more crisp. It's not overly bright, just clear in the top. This is my favorite DAC of the whole bunch for something I would want to spend hours on. Headphone amp starts to crap out with HD650 at high volume, but it absolutely loves the ATH M50's so I might rely on those, with this, or buy a JDS Atom or something. Mic pres are neutral, crisp, fairly precise. They sound fine. I can use them. I am learning the MOTU sound it's a tiny bit scooped and shiny, sort of I don't know a clinical presentation but just flattering enough. It doesn't have the character of my big rig but nothing does so I don't expect it to. I was able to quickly produce a good track on the M4, a laptop, and the AT headphones, so that's the proof I need to hang onto it now. Even though it's only been here a few days. For $200 this is pretty exceptional. Bus powered, so you can run it on your laptop out in the desert if you need to.
Black Lion Audio Revolution 2x2 - One of the most interesting characters on the list, but with some flaws that keep it from succeeding. Build quality is excellent, it's tough and heavy. The drivers are unstable on Windows and completely inconvenient. I can't even run the higher buffer settings, they will crap out. To me, this is not acceptable. Round trip numbers are just a hair faster than the MOTU when measured, but the lack of stability kills it. Note to MAC users: this is class compliant, uses Apple drivers, so you will be fine. Windows users, caveat emptor. I'll start with the DAC. It's colored, no way around it. It's a fat sounding DAC that's a little slow in the high end. Very good bass response. Very wide sound stage, exciting sounding. It's fun to listen to but I wouldn't want to mix on it, I need something I can trust more, not something flattering. I didn't love it on acoustic guitars, acoustic piano, etc. The headphone amp is exceptional, the best headphone amp on the list. Makes my HD650 sound huge, which is a big achievement for a small bus powered interface. The preamps are good too. A little warmer sounding than the M4, more like outboard preamps, they have some character, a good character. But I can't keep this one for two reasons: the colored DAC on studio monitors, and the crappy Thesycon drivers, which break the deal. If you use an Apple computer, work EXCLUSIVELY on headphones, or can mix on an almost lo-fi or consumer spec DAC (see the tech specs), this might be a great choice for that specific use case.
Want to finish by mentioning the Zoom H6 and Sound Devices MixPre 6 mobile recorders. They "work" as interface, technically, but they are not made for this, so they are not ideal, and I don't recommend them as an interface replacement. The H6 is unusable. Too noisy, low signal. The MixPre would "work" but it feels like using the wrong tool. You might as well just record to the SD card anyway. Either one of those is a dream for mobile recording. So if you are into field recording, location music, etc, they are highly recommended for exactly that.
Honorable mentions: Focusrite Saffire and Presonuse Firestudio Mobile. Firewire, wow, that's where I started. The Saffire is similar to the Scarletts, a good all rounder, not hi fi though, might even still be good if you have a FireWire connection. Even my first big Apollo 8 was Firewire, then straight to the Thunderbolt card. The FireStudio mobile had once nice attribute, it had super fast round trip latency, which was sort of novel at the time, unless you were using PCIe or something like that. But it sounded terrible, just dismal. For some reason I tried it though.
"The only way up from here," probably an RME Baybface Pro FS. I just couldn't afford it. It wins the latency game, and does every other thing you need too. And possibly an Apogee Symphony Desktop. If you want to challenge a Nigel Godrich major label production sound, this might do it. Only 2 inputs though, so whatever you can do with that. Even more expensive. I'd probably want something either larger, or smaller, if that makes sense, but it does have ADAT in which would be good for expansion.
All right, that was a marathon post, time for breakfast, let me know your thoughts.
Clarett 4Pre Thunderbolt - This one got a little hot when running, (because it's so compact,) and the chassis was a tiny bit loosey goosey, (it was used,) those are probably the reasons I sold it. But this is likely the most powerful interface on the list, you could record a whole band through it. Conversion is crisp and punchy, I am a big fan of the Clarett conversion. Back in the day I preferred it over the silver Apollo conversion. Latency performance is decent, better than a lot of these, but not as good as the top performers like RME, and so on. The Thunderbolt ones are faster than the newer USB ones. There is a pretty simple direct monitor mixer with the Claretts. People report software issues with these but I've never had any, I've owned three Clarett interfaces and still own a Clarett OctoPre. I think they are solid and they sound really good. The preamps aren't exceptional but I don't usually look to interfaces for their preamps, mostly I focus on outboard pres. The pres are a tiny bit dark until you press the Air button. The line inputs are fine. Yes you can run preamps into the line inputs, it's not an issue. People get hung up on this. The perfect middle of the road upper mid end, lower high end interface. Lacks some of the whiz-bang features of the modern high end interfaces in 2021.
Tascam UH7000 - The old standby for me. I still own two of them. I used to recommend these all the time. Great sounding DAC for 5 years ago. Our pal Jcoutu mixes through one. Great sounding mic preamps, Tascam HDIA. Everything feels kind of hi-fi about this one. The mic pres are clear and fast but have a tiny bit of color in the top end, they are flattering. I like them for acoustic guitars, voice, things like that. Drivers aren't the fastest in the world, this is not a low latency monster, you have to run the buffer kind of high. I mainly use them as a DAC and a mic preamp to expand larger interfaces. This was my main DAC for a while, I preferred it over the iD22. I preferred it over the Silver Apollo DAC. DAC is a tiny bit soft sounding in a direct A/B with the Clarett but you could call it "warmer" if you like. When people talk about "chips" the iD22 and the UH7000 were the Texas Instruments "Burr Brown" DAC's du jour at that time. Strong headphone amp. It's one of those interfaces that had great tech specs when it came out, much better than the Scarletts and things like that.
Audient iD22 - Didn't love the form factor of this or the build quality, those are my main concerns with Audient gear. It had some quirks and rough edges to it, a little unrefined. The power supply was terrible, I had to replace it with something better. In my crazy audiophile mind this improved the sound quality a bit. DAC quality is very similar to the Tascam UH7000, but there's a tiny metallic, crisp top end on the iD22. For that reason, I stuck with the Tascam, but they are very close. People talk about the preamps a lot but I never dug into them, so I can't comment much. USB drivers are generic and utilitarian, not a low latency monster at all, but they "work fine." Just don't expect mind blowing speeds. I'd like to try the iD14 MK 2 as it has everything I need from the iD22 and I'm not missing the extra stuff, plus it's modernized whatever they've done in the past few years of selling these. These Audient, Clarett, Tascam DAC's are going to sound a tiny bit "brown" in 2021 compared to modern DAC's, to borrow a phrase from the other RGO Dan.
Apollo Twin Silver Thunderbolt 2 - It's expensive. It only has 2 inputs. To me that's a bad ratio. These are extremely popular but I don't like them. To be fair it probably does perform better in general than something like an iD22, but I am an Apollo denier. They were my first "real" interfaces and I've broken up with them. Sound is fine, some people love it, some hate it, I just think it's fine. Preamps are fine, but nothing to lose sleep about not owning. I don't prefer DSP interfaces that rely on expensive plugins in a separate window, that's the main thing. I never used the Console software, it was wasted on me. I also don't like UAD marketing, that shouldn't affect my opinion of the product but it does. I don't like being spoken to that way. I bought a ton of UAD plugins so I keep a Satellite to mix with them now. The best thing about the Apollo is you know what you're getting. Good sound quality, strong build quality, reliable connection to the computer. This might be worth paying for, for some people. Everyone knows what these are so I'll move to the next one. My solution is to use low latency native interfaces that do everything, "and more" than what the Apollo claims to "own" and does not. I can track through any plugin I want now.
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 - Sold this one to a friend who really needed it, someone that was recording on Cassette tapes until this exchange. Recommended a 2i2 to another friend as a first interface. These are a great "first interface." Mainly because of the prices, and that they are not as bad as people online say they are. To someone with Focal monitors, a custom 251 vocal mic, and you get the picture, this doesn't really fit in that picture. But to someone with a bunch of electric guitars and pedals, and a drummer friend, recording in untreated rooms, this is all you need. If said person ever needed to upgrade they would. They would realize it like the rest of us do. But some people take another path, and don't need the fancy things we all need, they won't need to upgrade. This is good enough for many people. It's got a dead simple USB 2 connection, and all the basic features you need, as well as acceptable sound quality and performance. That with the low price means it's the most popular interface line in the world, or one of them.
Steinberg UR24c - Interesting thing about this one is the DSP. It has some inbuilt plugins, an EQ, reverb, some guitar amps. You could make some sound with this, without even using a DAW. They aren't top class plugins but it's fun to work in a DSP environment like this. USB C connection and can be bus powered, or take an external PSU. This is extremely useful for connecting to phones, laptops, ipads, etc. The main point of something like this. Some of the knobs feel cheap. Yamaha/Steinberg D-Pre preamps are classic interface pres. Just kind of utilitarian. They work completely fine, I tracked a good song through this one. Took a tiny bit of extra mix mojo, but I got to the finish line with that mix. DAC is also "fine." It's not reference grade, at all, but it's adequate. Better than the next one I'm about to discuss, most likely. Headphone amp could drive my HD650 decently when turned up pretty far. Ultimately the sound of this thing was just a tiny bit thin and crunchy, the achilles heel of many of these $200 boxes, so I let it go. But it was one of my overall favorites of the modern ones. It doesn't "quite" hold up on studio monitors, but for a true mobile operation, I think it would be a great performer. That's my problem with these, I've been comparing them to my $5,000 "big rig" which is a really tough fight for an all in one $200 box. But I'm chasing that dragon.
SSL2+ - I bought this because of the brand name, they hype, and the mic preamps. I got 4 free SSL plugins which is mind-blowing. Worth the purchase just for that, when it's available, an incredible package. Those Native plugins are lovely. The mic preamps are my favorite part of this one. They are bright and very punchy, they have way more personality than most $200 interface pres. Maybe not a ton of bottom on them though. Headphone amp was adequate but not exceptional, just as good as anything else, about. I hated the DAC on this thing. Despised it. Super bright with some weird coloration in the treble that scrambled my brain. For that reason I had to send it back. Bright DAC's are my personal boogie man, something I run and scream away from. It works in the pre, but not the DAC IMO. So the hype is somewhat justified on these, they are noteworthy, but they are also not going to "blow away" other $200 interfaces, unless you count the plugin bundle, then they kind of do. I didn't spend a ton of time judging driver performance, but they were stable on Windows.
Motu M4 - I'll likely end up with this one for now. Latency performance is not class leading at all, I've measured the RTL, but at least the drivers are stable. It's going to be in the same ballpark as many of the others regarding round trip time. 4 inputs is a Goldilocks number for me, much better than 2. If I need 2 more mic pres, I'll simply stick my Sound Devices 302 with Lundahl 7 series mic pres on top of this thing and likely out perform any interface on this list, right into the two TRS line inputs on the back. The "big deal" about the MOTU is the ESS Sabre DAC chips and the technical specifications they were able to achieve. These are clean, quiet, precise interfaces, not something we're completely used to in a $200 5 volt powered interface until now. It has better "technical" performance than some high end boxes, including my main DAC in fact. I use a Topping DX7S so I love the ESS sound, it's my favorite. The Topping is a little beefier sounding, more huge. But the MOTU DAC is good on speakers too, a little more crisp. It's not overly bright, just clear in the top. This is my favorite DAC of the whole bunch for something I would want to spend hours on. Headphone amp starts to crap out with HD650 at high volume, but it absolutely loves the ATH M50's so I might rely on those, with this, or buy a JDS Atom or something. Mic pres are neutral, crisp, fairly precise. They sound fine. I can use them. I am learning the MOTU sound it's a tiny bit scooped and shiny, sort of I don't know a clinical presentation but just flattering enough. It doesn't have the character of my big rig but nothing does so I don't expect it to. I was able to quickly produce a good track on the M4, a laptop, and the AT headphones, so that's the proof I need to hang onto it now. Even though it's only been here a few days. For $200 this is pretty exceptional. Bus powered, so you can run it on your laptop out in the desert if you need to.
Black Lion Audio Revolution 2x2 - One of the most interesting characters on the list, but with some flaws that keep it from succeeding. Build quality is excellent, it's tough and heavy. The drivers are unstable on Windows and completely inconvenient. I can't even run the higher buffer settings, they will crap out. To me, this is not acceptable. Round trip numbers are just a hair faster than the MOTU when measured, but the lack of stability kills it. Note to MAC users: this is class compliant, uses Apple drivers, so you will be fine. Windows users, caveat emptor. I'll start with the DAC. It's colored, no way around it. It's a fat sounding DAC that's a little slow in the high end. Very good bass response. Very wide sound stage, exciting sounding. It's fun to listen to but I wouldn't want to mix on it, I need something I can trust more, not something flattering. I didn't love it on acoustic guitars, acoustic piano, etc. The headphone amp is exceptional, the best headphone amp on the list. Makes my HD650 sound huge, which is a big achievement for a small bus powered interface. The preamps are good too. A little warmer sounding than the M4, more like outboard preamps, they have some character, a good character. But I can't keep this one for two reasons: the colored DAC on studio monitors, and the crappy Thesycon drivers, which break the deal. If you use an Apple computer, work EXCLUSIVELY on headphones, or can mix on an almost lo-fi or consumer spec DAC (see the tech specs), this might be a great choice for that specific use case.
Want to finish by mentioning the Zoom H6 and Sound Devices MixPre 6 mobile recorders. They "work" as interface, technically, but they are not made for this, so they are not ideal, and I don't recommend them as an interface replacement. The H6 is unusable. Too noisy, low signal. The MixPre would "work" but it feels like using the wrong tool. You might as well just record to the SD card anyway. Either one of those is a dream for mobile recording. So if you are into field recording, location music, etc, they are highly recommended for exactly that.
Honorable mentions: Focusrite Saffire and Presonuse Firestudio Mobile. Firewire, wow, that's where I started. The Saffire is similar to the Scarletts, a good all rounder, not hi fi though, might even still be good if you have a FireWire connection. Even my first big Apollo 8 was Firewire, then straight to the Thunderbolt card. The FireStudio mobile had once nice attribute, it had super fast round trip latency, which was sort of novel at the time, unless you were using PCIe or something like that. But it sounded terrible, just dismal. For some reason I tried it though.
"The only way up from here," probably an RME Baybface Pro FS. I just couldn't afford it. It wins the latency game, and does every other thing you need too. And possibly an Apogee Symphony Desktop. If you want to challenge a Nigel Godrich major label production sound, this might do it. Only 2 inputs though, so whatever you can do with that. Even more expensive. I'd probably want something either larger, or smaller, if that makes sense, but it does have ADAT in which would be good for expansion.
All right, that was a marathon post, time for breakfast, let me know your thoughts.
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