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Post by Ward on Apr 11, 2021 6:53:56 GMT -6
Hey fam.
Regardless of brand or allegiance or anything else . . . I am so sick of latency, even minute latency.
What is the lowest latency computer, OS and DAW available>? I have got to upgrade past the cheese-grater Westmere at some point.
Let's say running 48 tracks and still overdubbing backing vocals. Average of about 120 plug-ins in total.
Many thanks in advance.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 11, 2021 7:20:19 GMT -6
I thought rme has some of the lowest latency #’s?
But with that many plug ins, how can you get latency down ?
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 11, 2021 8:03:35 GMT -6
Isn’t Pro Tools Carbon the solution to that?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 8:14:57 GMT -6
Hey fam. Regardless of brand or allegiance or anything else . . . I am so sick of latency, even minute latency. What is the lowest latency computer, OS and DAW available>? I have got to upgrade past the cheese-grater Westmere at some point. Let's say running 48 tracks and still overdubbing backing vocals. Average of about 120 plug-ins in total. Many thanks in advance. 1) For loopback through native plugs: RME or Lynx PCI-E cards to converters of your choice, RME UFX+ thunderbolt, or Lynx Aurora N thunderbolt. Lynx sounds a lot better than RME but is more expensive. RME’s PCI-E cards are easier to use. Reaper and Windows are most efficient but I’d use Pro Tools too just in case. Asio makes less calls to the driver then core audio and the Windows kernel is more optimized than the Mac OS one. 2) Full Pro Tools HDX rig. The rebranded DAD converters. Either OS. The whole nine yards. Pay out the ass but it’s guaranteed to work.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 8:16:10 GMT -6
Isn’t Pro Tools Carbon the solution to that? Doesn’t have low latency through native plugs. Connects via AVB, which has higher round trip latency through the DAW than USB.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 11, 2021 8:19:41 GMT -6
Probably RME or Lynx PCIe card based systems, or the HDX mentioned.
I was thinking of buying an RME HDSPe AIO Pro to scratch this itch.
Last night I think kcat was talking about the low latency "revelation" with his Lynx, maybe he can chime in.
Personally I use a Presonus Quantum and it does the thing, people don't seem interested though usually because it's not expensive. But it's not a secret, either, it works.
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Post by damoongo on Apr 11, 2021 8:32:39 GMT -6
Why not hardware monitor? Zero latency always. Can have a bloated session with a million plugs and decide to overdub a vocal during mix down. No latency. Or am I not understanding the question?
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 11, 2021 8:40:33 GMT -6
The Aurora is definitely super low in a new session, I don’t even have to mute channel, but plug ins add latency so not certain I can recommend ? Am also not certain I am using the Lynx ncontrol GUI properly ?
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Post by Guitar on Apr 11, 2021 8:47:51 GMT -6
That's a good point about plugin latency. Chasing this particular rabbit, you will have to know which plugins have zero latency, or a zero latency mode, if you want to listen to them while playing through them. Doesn't matter what interface you have. For example, a plugin with a lookahead, or an oversampling calculation, will always introduce some amount of latency.
I use the Cubase channel latency window to monitor this.
Unless you have a DSP interface like Carbon or Apollo, then yeah, you might get some extra plugins that way. I don't personally rate DSP interfaces for how I like to work. I prefer to keep everything native.
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 11, 2021 8:50:20 GMT -6
How many milliseconds are you willing to tolerate?
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Post by thirdeye on Apr 11, 2021 9:02:18 GMT -6
Hey fam. Regardless of brand or allegiance or anything else . . . I am so sick of latency, even minute latency. What is the lowest latency computer, OS and DAW available>? I have got to upgrade past the cheese-grater Westmere at some point. Let's say running 48 tracks and still overdubbing backing vocals. Average of about 120 plug-ins in total. Many thanks in advance. Avid HDx I believe.
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Post by Ward on Apr 11, 2021 9:41:27 GMT -6
How many milliseconds are you willing to tolerate? Less than 3
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Post by drbill on Apr 11, 2021 9:44:22 GMT -6
How many milliseconds are you willing to tolerate? Less than 3 You can do way better than that ward. HDX @ 96k = 0.5 ms latency.
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Post by subspace on Apr 11, 2021 10:24:45 GMT -6
I was punching in backing chorus lines on 9 headphone feeds with sub-ms latency and high buffer settings last weekend, Carbon has extremely low tracking latency using Pro Tools.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 11, 2021 10:27:42 GMT -6
I was punching in backing chorus lines on 9 headphone feeds with sub-ms latency and high buffer settings last weekend, Carbon has extremely low tracking latency using Pro Tools. Have you run the Oblique RTL utility on it for native latency? I'd be interested to see that, it would take 10 minutes though. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming you mostly use the AAX plugins?
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Post by Ward on Apr 11, 2021 10:28:07 GMT -6
You can do way better than that ward. HDX @ 96k = 0.5 ms latency. That's it. I'm giving up comedy.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 11, 2021 10:41:10 GMT -6
Ah, ok, but should we try the veal ?
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Post by drbill on Apr 11, 2021 10:45:22 GMT -6
You can do way better than that ward. HDX @ 96k = 0.5 ms latency. That's it. I'm giving up comedy. I never went there. That's why I chose HDX. No comedy. It's more of a serious drama thing....
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Post by subspace on Apr 11, 2021 10:54:47 GMT -6
I was punching in backing chorus lines on 9 headphone feeds with sub-ms latency and high buffer settings last weekend, Carbon has extremely low tracking latency using Pro Tools. Have you run the Oblique RTL utility on it for native latency? I'd be interested to see that, it would take 10 minutes though. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming you mostly use the AAX plugins? I use AAX DSP on live inputs and whatever on tracks that are already in the can. I haven't measured native only latency in PTs, but I did measure Gig Performer 3 Unlocked with a 128 buffer at 48kHz, 2.8ms round trip. I like it for hosting VI/amp sim creative routing chains.
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 11, 2021 12:06:56 GMT -6
Why not hardware monitor? Zero latency always. Can have a bloated session with a million plugs and decide to overdub a vocal during mix down. No latency. Or am I not understanding the question? Same question. Is there something I’m not understanding? Seems like some were talking about plugins adding latency while tracking through them, which I get. But if you are overdubbing into a “mixed” session, and have loads of tracks and processing already, why not use the interfaces direct monitoring? Don’t most interfaces these days have that? Are there drawbacks I’m not aware of? Is the recorded track off when overdubbing to a heavily mixed session? I’ve never had an issue that I could hear.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 11, 2021 12:20:51 GMT -6
It's a pretty simple thing for me, Virtual Instruments. Think, Superior Drummer 3, Amplitube 5 for guitar, any number of keyboard instruments, pianos, synthesizers, orchestra, you get the idea. Maybe a bass amp simulation once in a while.
This has changed my workflow and wasn't possible with slower interfaces. Possible perhaps, but not ideal. I now use e-drums half the time and rarely have to fire up the Marshall any more. It's faster work and saves physical space in the studio location, which is important for someone like me in a small room.
If you love computers this is the way to go.
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 11, 2021 12:58:29 GMT -6
Hdx is the lowest latency thing you can do. Other stuff is getting close but really to do that you aren't dealing with a Daw at that point. As in, uad has low latency but only if you send things back out through it's console app and same for every other thing.
Hdx is all in protools.
With the native mix engine coming to full hdx systems it'll breath new life into hdx stuff allowing native mix engine and massive dsp compared to carbon. It'll once again keep it top dog.
So really. A new computer to handle the native stuff will be great. Plus hdx to give you less the 1ms latency everywhere.
This is why I like Bill went hdx. No hassle. Ultra fast. It just works.
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Post by Mister Chase on Apr 11, 2021 13:04:11 GMT -6
HDX is the way, it seems.
Plugins are a pain. I just monitor direct through the converters if my session requires a large buffer. Not really any latency.
I even wish mixing had no latency, though. I guess that's an HDX thing, too. Plugins and buffer get higher and higher and changing a knob is very slow to take effect.
Definitely going more outboard to help with at least some of that.
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Post by ab101 on Apr 11, 2021 13:11:54 GMT -6
Aurora (n) with thunderbolt. At least 8 core processor running with multiple threads. (And some daws require a setting to make sure that all threads are carrying the appropriate load.) Separate SSD drive for C drive and for playing back audio. Good cooling on the processor. Yes - Lynx AES16e - also low latency. It has been years since I used RME, but it had great drivers and low latency. And of course, as everyone knows, the higher the sample rate, the lower the latency. So for multitracking I go for at least 88.1 or 96K- mainly for the latency benefit.
On the 120 plugins running at once, hmmm - I am not sure and defer to others.
Thank you Ward for bringing up this question so we can all learn.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 11, 2021 13:48:06 GMT -6
One thing about the RME HSDPe cards is you can stack them 3 high, I believe, for massive I/O counts, and an appealing alternative to an expensive Avid system for people that doen't float that way.
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