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Post by stratboy on Apr 4, 2021 14:17:50 GMT -6
I really want a Royer to record electric guitars. But even used, they go for $1100 or more, which is steep for me right now. Does the Stager have a similar voice? Is there another alternative? Or should I just swallow the GAS and save up for the real thing?
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 4, 2021 14:21:11 GMT -6
I’ve used both, but never side by side. I don’t think they sound like each other. The Royer has a specific sound on electric guitars, if that’s what you’re after you’re better off just saving for the royer.
However, I’ve used other ribbons that are also very nice on electric guitar...just different sounding than the 121.
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 4, 2021 14:24:21 GMT -6
I do believe "the real thing" is the Stager SR-2N! I own the R101 and a pair of Stagers. The R101 never gets used in electric guitars anymore. I know The R101 is a bit different than the R121 but it's not THAT different, from what I gather.
Seriously, if you have an amp that's sounding great in the room, you just need to put the Stager in front of it and hit "record". Done. I don't even fiddle with positioning anymore.
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Post by gouge on Apr 4, 2021 17:16:37 GMT -6
i was keen for a stager but this shootout made me want the SR-1a way more than the SR-2n.
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Post by EmRR on Apr 4, 2021 17:19:27 GMT -6
This is a comparison of open shell types versus treble resonator shell types. RCA/Fat Head/Stager/Coles/etc versus B&O/Royer/Samar/etc. That's the first slice here.
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Post by stratboy on Apr 4, 2021 18:54:35 GMT -6
This is a comparison of open shell types versus treble resonator shell types. RCA/Fat Head/Stager/Coles/etc versus B&O/Royer/Samar/etc. That's the first slice here. Thanks for this insight. I’ve learned from the responses thus far that while they’re different mics (thanks, C.O.), the Stager seems to be a very good candidate to record electric guitars. What other mid-price ($400-$700) ribbons do folks like for electric guitars, and why?
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Post by mulmany on Apr 4, 2021 19:14:39 GMT -6
Look at the Bumblebee RM-6 or 5, they can be bought assembled or as simple kits.
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Post by Mister Chase on Apr 4, 2021 20:11:49 GMT -6
Dunno about the Stager. Have the Royer. It works well sometimes for that specific sound. I'm not particularly knocked out by it, but many are. I quite enjoy my Beyer m160s on electric guitar. Or r84. The m160 is Eddie Kramer's favorite guitar cab mic apparently. Id have a hard time arguing him.
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Post by srb on Apr 4, 2021 20:39:41 GMT -6
I can't add to the comparison requested on those specific mics, but I can say I have been using the Beyerdynamic M160 with excellent results on electric guitar the last couple years. Sometimes I pair it with a 421, 441, or a 57.
I find them to be more 'focused' than the Fathead. The AEA R84 has been a good choice on occasion. The R84 likes a little 'breathing room' to function best in my environment.
I have enjoyed the using the Fathead in an M/S arrangement with a condenser on Leslie.
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Post by Mister Chase on Apr 4, 2021 21:28:41 GMT -6
I can't add to the comparison requested on those specific mics, but I can say I have been using the Beyerdynamic M160 with excellent results on electric guitar the last couple years. Sometimes I pair it with a 421, 441, or a 57. I find them to be more 'focused' than the Fathead. The AEA R84 has been a good choice on occasion. The R84 likes a little 'breathing room' to function best in my environment. I have enjoyed the using the Fathead in an M/S arrangement with a condenser on Leslie. Bingo on the r84. It's what I use when I want more sound of the whole cab involved. The Beyer can do whatever but it's focus makes it easy to get speaker alone or cab too.
Used to have a Fathead. Actually miss it on electric guitars. Did have a sound...
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Post by schmalzy on Apr 4, 2021 23:27:28 GMT -6
I like to use Fatheads in a few spots. They're great on drums. We have high shelf EQs for a reason; use 'em on a Fathead overhead pair and you'll probably be happy as long as that sort of sound is in the ballpark for appropriate for your sonic goals.
They're a bit dark especially within heavy proximity effect range. Most of the time on guitar amps I pair 'em with something brighter and put the Fathead on the brightest spot on the amp in the most perfect phase alignment as I can attain with two different-sounding mics. It has a different midrange characteristic plus a ton of weight in the low end. Sometimes it's right and sometimes it gets muted.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 4, 2021 23:41:30 GMT -6
I like my Royer r10. Use it for overheads sometimes when I do mid-side. Good on cabs, acoustic. Not bad on vocals.
However, m160 is pretty much my favorite mic right now for virtually everything. On cabs it is basically set and forget.
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 5, 2021 3:25:24 GMT -6
I think that if you want a Royer, you should really get a Royer or you'll always be second guessing your decision and think " should I've gotten the Royer" instead.
If the Royer sound is what you're after it's pretty much unbeatable. I haven't used the Stagers but I've used pretty much every ribbon under the sun and though I don't love the Royer for most things, I think it's one of the best ribbon for amps.
From the demos I've heard, the Stagers have a roounded, really vintagey sound, the Royer is the opposite of that, it's pretty Hifi, it sounds modern and has a nice hi mid bite. It's light and very easy to place and align with a second mic. You can put it right up on the grill like you would a 57, something you can't do with like say an AEA R84.
The Beyer m160 is also great as many have suggested but again, it really doesn't sound anything like the Royer, it does have a mid bite also but it's not at the same freq as the Royer, I really like the Beyer for small combo amps, it just works and sounds like a 57 and a ribbon are already combined, it just works but it gives a slightly agressive vintage tone. If I were to record a stoner band, The Beyer M160 on a Marshall would be awesome, for something like clinical metal, I would feel more confident with the sound of the Royer. There is something more polite about the Royer, which can soound a bit boring for my taste.
On the cheaper end of the things, if the modern guitar sound is what you're going for, I find the SE VR1 or 2 to be the best, they don't sound like the Royers but you can place them like the Royer and they have a similar vibe I would say.
I'll be honest with you though, I don't find ribbons to be the end all be all for guitar recording. Lately I've been using a combination of 2 dynamics taped ( mostly M88+57 or MD421+57 ) or One Ldc +57 ( U67 or TLM67 recently) most of the time and I've been really happy with the results.
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Post by stratboy on Apr 5, 2021 9:59:41 GMT -6
I can't add to the comparison requested on those specific mics, but I can say I have been using the Beyerdynamic M160 with excellent results on electric guitar the last couple years. Sometimes I pair it with a 421, 441, or a 57. I find them to be more 'focused' than the Fathead. The AEA R84 has been a good choice on occasion. The R84 likes a little 'breathing room' to function best in my environment. I have enjoyed the using the Fathead in an M/S arrangement with a condenser on Leslie. The R84 was my go to choice for cabs, with a 57. But I found the R84 worked best back 3-4 feet, with the 57 on the grill. In my old space, the sound had room to develop before it got to the R84, especially a 2x12 cabinet with mixed 12s inside. I don’t have that kind of space any more. So the wonderful responses to this thread are helping me clarify that I’m looking for a ribbon ‘sound’ up close and personal, more so than the Royer 121 sound specifically. Several great suggestions here; I’m going to take a closer look at the Beyer, Stager and Cascade mics mentioned. Thanks!
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Post by Mister Chase on Apr 5, 2021 10:22:32 GMT -6
I can't add to the comparison requested on those specific mics, but I can say I have been using the Beyerdynamic M160 with excellent results on electric guitar the last couple years. Sometimes I pair it with a 421, 441, or a 57. I find them to be more 'focused' than the Fathead. The AEA R84 has been a good choice on occasion. The R84 likes a little 'breathing room' to function best in my environment. I have enjoyed the using the Fathead in an M/S arrangement with a condenser on Leslie. The R84 was my go to choice for cabs, with a 57. But I found the R84 worked best back 3-4 feet, with the 57 on the grill. In my old space, the sound had room to develop before it got to the R84, especially a 2x12 cabinet with mixed 12s inside. I don’t have that kind of space any more. So the wonderful responses to this thread are helping me clarify that I’m looking for a ribbon ‘sound’ up close and personal, more so than the Royer 121 sound specifically. Several great suggestions here; I’m going to take a closer look at the Beyer, Stager and Cascade mics mentioned. Thanks! I would check this out and listen. You'll really be able to hear the differences in many of these mics. Royer and Fathead included. No Stager, though. Sorry!
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Post by stratboy on Apr 5, 2021 10:59:20 GMT -6
Good resource. Thanks!
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Post by professorplum on Apr 5, 2021 20:21:20 GMT -6
Been eyeing one of these for a long time now. Anyone use them on strings (violin, cello, etc)? Curious about them on acoustic stringed instruments. Cello, mandolin, acoustic guitar. Although good electric guitar and drum sounds would be a plus!
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Post by phdamage on Jun 12, 2021 11:20:44 GMT -6
+1 for m160 on guitar! I bought a pair, thinking I would use as overheads but I almost only ever use them on guitar cabs.
I always use two mics on a cab, so I often start with an m88/421/U195 paired with a ribbon. I often start with an m160 but sometimes choose one of various oktavamod ribbons that are far darker. M500 is no slouch as well. Has more upper mid bite than the m160, to my ear. Can often be found for dirt cheap
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Post by phdamage on Jun 12, 2021 11:21:13 GMT -6
Also, just bought the cheaper stager. Will report back on my findings
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Post by roundbadge on Jun 14, 2021 8:37:52 GMT -6
I got rid of my 122 on cabs after trying the 2’s I often do a 2 next to an old shure unidyne. Fat. Also the new sr-5 is awesome on cabs More focused and punchy Very similar to the old Rca bk5
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Post by nomatic on Jun 15, 2021 5:31:09 GMT -6
I used to like the 122s but the Stager SR2Ns just kill them subjectively. This being said the TUL G 12 mic is king for all guitar cabs in my shop.
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Post by robschnapf on Jun 15, 2021 7:39:05 GMT -6
I’ve never been able to use Royer on a Marshall cab. They always buckle 160s work great. The Stagers can take it too. Also I don’t always want figure Eight pattern on stuff particularly if the room doesn’t have anything nice to offer.
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Post by svart on Jun 15, 2021 9:37:23 GMT -6
I have the R121. Nothing else is quite like it in the midrange. That said, the Bumblebee RM5 is close in overall design to the R121. I have the RM6 and the RM7 though. The RM6 is a bit more extended in the top end and less boomy, but the mids are similar. I recently used the RM6/57 combo on a guitar cabinet next to another cabinet with R121/57 combo and honestly I couldn't tell much difference between them. I haven't done explicit side-by-side tests though.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 15, 2021 13:51:56 GMT -6
If you're in Motel 6 budget land I recommend Apex 205, MXL R80, MXL R40, do some work on them. Wonderful mics once upgraded. DIY skills required.
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Post by jaba on Jun 15, 2021 15:15:24 GMT -6
Love the M160 myself. Kind of like a pre-mixed R121+57. Kind of....
Keep in mind the 160 is hyper-cardioid which can be a pro or con depending on how you're using it.
It's also a very versatile mic - amps, drums, brass, vocals, percussion - so you definitely get your money's worth. Bonus point for not being too expensive.
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