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Post by dmo on Mar 22, 2021 20:21:50 GMT -6
Ok, few quick tracks of the Type 19 serial #0006. Signal chain Audient 8024HE - Apollo x16 - Logic. No processing, basically untreated room. Taylor 214CE, same old strings (and old fingers) as Serrano 87 clips. 1st 2 fingerpicked guitar, first with HPF off, second on. Aimed between 12-14 fret, about 12" away. Same song selection as used on Serrano clips to provide a comparison. 3rd track includes vocal - aimed mid chest, HPF on.
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Post by roundbadge on Mar 23, 2021 0:38:30 GMT -6
nice..thanks for posting!
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Post by boostudio on Mar 23, 2021 7:24:35 GMT -6
I’ve been really interested in these mics — appreciate your posting!!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 23, 2021 10:25:42 GMT -6
Nice sounds like the guy’s have another winner.
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Post by superwack on Mar 23, 2021 10:33:22 GMT -6
Thanks for posting! Obviously, there are a lot of variables with acoustic guitars in general but I get the impression the HPF might be too drastic for my tastes (at least on this test) I read it's 160 Hz but couldn't find what the slope is - reminds me of the thinning out you hear with the U87 filter engaged
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 23, 2021 11:30:46 GMT -6
Thanks for posting! Obviously, there are a lot of variables with acoustic guitars in general but I get the impression the HPF might be too drastic for my tastes (at least on this test) I read it's 160 Hz but couldn't find what the slope is - reminds me of the thinning out you hear with the U87 filter engaged Thanks so much for doing this, dmo ! I think between filter 'engaged' vs 'not engaged' on these clips, I prefer it 'not engaged,' but the proximity effect sounds strong enough that I would maybe want to back the mic up another 6-12". But man, the mic sounds great, and nice playing! |
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Post by dmo on Mar 23, 2021 12:06:44 GMT -6
Mark,
Agree probably mic'd closer than I usually would so more proximity effect, was trying to minimize background bleed as there was more going on outside the bedroom door than when I usually try to record but working today and wanted to get something out. I really need to place some tape marks to try and "standardize" my positioning so my clips provide a better comparison.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 23, 2021 14:01:59 GMT -6
Mark, Agree probably mic'd closer than I usually would so more proximity effect, was trying to minimize background bleed as there was more going on outside the bedroom door than when I usually try to record but working today and wanted to get something out. I really need to place some tape marks to try and "standardize" my positioning so my clips provide a better comparison. Ha good luck with that! |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 23, 2021 15:18:58 GMT -6
Mark, Agree probably mic'd closer than I usually would so more proximity effect, was trying to minimize background bleed as there was more going on outside the bedroom door than when I usually try to record but working today and wanted to get something out. I really need to place some tape marks to try and "standardize" my positioning so my clips provide a better comparison. Totally understood - actually, I think your examples were great, because they showed very well what the HP filter sounds like. Feeling out the "reach" of a given microphone is always one of the biggest keys to understanding it, IMO, and I thought your examples illustrated this really well. thumbsup |
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Post by Ward on Mar 24, 2021 19:00:46 GMT -6
My aim is have 3 or 4 of these and park them on toms.
Thanks for the clips! Very informative.
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Post by boostudio on Mar 24, 2021 19:27:41 GMT -6
My aim is have 3 or 4 of these and park them on toms. Thanks for the clips! Very informative. Exactly what I was thinking 👍👍 |
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Post by therealmattstarr on Mar 25, 2021 20:19:43 GMT -6
My aim is have 3 or 4 of these and park them on toms. Thanks for the clips! Very informative. I have three on order right now for this exact purpose. I’ll post some clips when I get them which is hopefully very soon! |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 28, 2021 10:57:29 GMT -6
Thanks for the DMO really nice to hear.
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Post by brenta on Mar 28, 2021 12:14:02 GMT -6
Sounds great. The HPF at 160 is too aggressive of a cut, but HPF is probably the least important factor on mic for me since we can cut with many pres, EQs, or when mixing.
I can’t afford $1k tom mics but I’d love to hear these on overheads. 🙂
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 31, 2021 16:06:47 GMT -6
Sounds great. The HPF at 160 is too aggressive of a cut, but HPF is probably the least important factor on mic for me since we can cut with many pres, EQs, or when mixing. I can’t afford $1k tom mics but I’d love to hear these on overheads. 🙂 That's not what an HPF is for. It's not EQ.
An HPF is a remedial device intended to eliminate or reduce unwanted rumble, truk and train noises, HVAC, Elephant stampedes, Jet engines, and other egregious accidental sounds. It is NOT intended as a tone shaping device - that's why your console has an EQ section or your DAW is stuffed with plugins.
Use the right tool for the job.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 31, 2021 16:59:26 GMT -6
Jimmy Page used a bow that wasn’t intended for an electric guitar. Whatever you find that gets the job done John!
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Post by brenta on Mar 31, 2021 19:01:04 GMT -6
Sounds great. The HPF at 160 is too aggressive of a cut, but HPF is probably the least important factor on mic for me since we can cut with many pres, EQs, or when mixing. I can’t afford $1k tom mics but I’d love to hear these on overheads. 🙂 That's not what an HPF is for. It's not EQ.
An HPF is a remedial device intended to eliminate or reduce unwanted rumble, truk and train noises, HVAC, Elephant stampedes, Jet engines, and other egregious accidental sounds. It is NOT intended as a tone shaping device - that's why your console has an EQ section or your DAW is stuffed with plugins.
Use the right tool for the job.
I'm not sure where I stated anything about what a HPF is or what it's used for? I would argue that it technically IS an EQ, and that of course it can be used in any situation where you want or need to cut frequencies are below the cutoff point, but that would veer us wildly off topic. |
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Post by ericn on Apr 1, 2021 17:31:45 GMT -6
Sounds great. The HPF at 160 is too aggressive of a cut, but HPF is probably the least important factor on mic for me since we can cut with many pres, EQs, or when mixing. I can’t afford $1k tom mics but I’d love to hear these on overheads. 🙂 That's not what an HPF is for. It's not EQ.
An HPF is a remedial device intended to eliminate or reduce unwanted rumble, truk and train noises, HVAC, Elephant stampedes, Jet engines, and other egregious accidental sounds. It is NOT intended as a tone shaping device - that's why your console has an EQ section or your DAW is stuffed with plugins.
Use the right tool for the job.
Well any time you grab the EQ for tone shaping your grabbing a filter to Shape tone so if you can do it with a HPF who cares? Must we reach deeper into the console ? |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 2, 2021 16:45:59 GMT -6
That's not what an HPF is for. It's not EQ.
An HPF is a remedial device intended to eliminate or reduce unwanted rumble, truk and train noises, HVAC, Elephant stampedes, Jet engines, and other egregious accidental sounds. It is NOT intended as a tone shaping device - that's why your console has an EQ section or your DAW is stuffed with plugins.
Use the right tool for the job.
I'm not sure where I stated anything about what a HPF is or what it's used for? I would argue that it technically IS an EQ, and that of course it can be used in any situation where you want or need to cut frequencies are below the cutoff point, but that would veer us wildly off topic. HPF (in audio) means "High Pass Filter". Its intended use is the removal of unwanted low frequency informantion from the signal. Generally speaking, it is NOT part of the EQ stage - it is separate. It's also not intended for EQ purposes - that's why your console (or channel strip) has an EQ section, which is generally a lot more versatile for the purpose.
Something that most young engineers fail to understand is that an HPF has effect as high as one to two octaves above the stated cutoff (which is usually the 3 to 6dB down point - so if you're one of those guys who HPFs everything that's why your guitars (and other instruments) have no depth. In many cases attempting to correct the deficit with EQ won't work, since the HPF is usually in front of the EQ section, and you can't boost what isn't there anymore. (The HPF is first so that the unwanted LF it eliminates doesn't interfere with the desired signal.)
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 2, 2021 16:47:50 GMT -6
Jimmy Page used a bow that wasn’t intended for an electric guitar. Whatever you find that gets the job done John! Not if it screws up more than it fixes. See above explanation. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 2, 2021 16:55:10 GMT -6
That's not what an HPF is for. It's not EQ.
An HPF is a remedial device intended to eliminate or reduce unwanted rumble, truk and train noises, HVAC, Elephant stampedes, Jet engines, and other egregious accidental sounds. It is NOT intended as a tone shaping device - that's why your console has an EQ section or your DAW is stuffed with plugins.
Use the right tool for the job.
Well any time you grab the EQ for tone shaping your grabbing a filter to Shape tone so if you can do it with a HPF who cares? Must we reach deeper into the console ? An HPF is a FILTER but it's not an EQ. It is intended for the removal of unwanted LF noise that would otherwise screw up the recording.
In most consoles the HPF is electrically in front of the EQ, which,as I just pointed out, means that you can't use the EQ to boost what you already cut out - if it's gone it's gone.
I'm reather surprised that you would be asking this.
The answer is that if you're using the console as intended you don't use the HPF as EQ. Think about it - the signal path in a console is LINEAR. What happens early in the circuit affects what happens later. You can't use EQ to "fine tune" the HPF because that frequency range is gone. You need to think about how moves early in the signal chain affect what is possible later in the chain - especially when cutting, becuse you can't undo it later in the chain.
A console isn't a black box that does a bunch of stuff simulatneously. Consoles are essentially linear like a river system.You have a bunch of little signals that get processesd and mixed in a linear succession of operations to a bigger signal, but you can't go bhackwards, only forwards.
Use your EQ for EQ - that's why it's there. Use your HPF when the freight train rolls by your studio, or when the HVAC kicks in at the wrong time.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 2, 2021 17:01:41 GMT -6
That's not what an HPF is for. It's not EQ.
An HPF is a remedial device intended to eliminate or reduce unwanted rumble, truk and train noises, HVAC, Elephant stampedes, Jet engines, and other egregious accidental sounds. It is NOT intended as a tone shaping device - that's why your console has an EQ section or your DAW is stuffed with plugins.
Use the right tool for the job.
I'm not sure where I stated anything about what a HPF is or what it's used for? I would argue that it technically IS an EQ, and that of course it can be used in any situation where you want or need to cut frequencies are below the cutoff point, but that would veer us wildly off topic. Revealing that there's a fair bit about console signal flow that you don't exactly understand.
It's a filter, not an EQ. Filters are intended for surgical removal of unwanted low frequencies that would otherwise have a negative effect on headroom and other, similar factors. It's neitherr intended nor designed for tonal adjustment.
An EQ, OTOH, it designed specifically for tonal adjustment and does a much better job of it.
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Post by ericn on Apr 2, 2021 17:14:42 GMT -6
Well any time you grab the EQ for tone shaping your grabbing a filter to Shape tone so if you can do it with a HPF who cares? Must we reach deeper into the console ? An HPF is a FILTER but it's not an EQ. It is intended for the removal of unwanted LF noise that would otherwise screw up the recording.
In most consoles the HPF is electrically in front of the EQ, which,as I just pointed out, means that you can't use the EQ to boost what you already cut out - if it's gone it's gone.
John Every band of an EQ is a filter! Electronics 101. It’s as basic as that ! While for the most part a HPF is used for house keeping it can and is often used for tone shaping, nothing unusual hell the choice of filter is probably determined by the way it effects the tone of the of the source. Besides it’s rock and roll your sounding like the old guys at Abby Road when Geoff Emrick wanted to play around and deviate from the standard Abby Road way. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 2, 2021 18:16:59 GMT -6
Well I got a good chuckle to myself.
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Post by drbill on Apr 2, 2021 19:17:05 GMT -6
Well I got a good chuckle to myself. I'm not sure if I should chuckle or shake my head.  |
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