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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 19, 2021 9:20:13 GMT -6
Most of the time when running a Parallel Comp in Pro Tools on the Drum bus, I will just add a send to the Drum AUX and route to a Parallel comp...but I thought I'd try and pick and choose what I sent e.g., Kick, Snare, Snare verb, OH...
All of the drums are sent to Bus 1-2 (Drumbus) but then I control click and add the parallel send (15-16 in this case) to the Bus 1-2. So there's the little + on the output. When I do this, there are major phasing issues. Same thing ha...
You know what. I think I just realized what's happening. I have delay comp from plugs on the Drumbus. Duh. So I guess I need to delay that track by the same amount?
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 19, 2021 9:30:43 GMT -6
OK...that ain't it...totally confused
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Post by drumsound on Mar 19, 2021 10:59:08 GMT -6
What plugin are you using for the parallel comp? Most brands have the right specs and automatic delay compensation works others (I'm looking at you IK) do not.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2021 13:08:41 GMT -6
You have latency from the drum bus plugs being mixed with the individual tracks without that delay. A plugin might also not
be reporting the correct latency, eg Softube FET’s lookahead. Your routing might have broke the Pro Tools plugin delay compensation. It doesn’t always add up and delay EVERYTHING by the total amount like Reaper or everything by the most latent plugin like Cubase.
Pro Tools Native might still have plugin delay compensation bugs. The best is in Cubase and Reaper ime. Studio One 5 is buggy. Logic has had broken pdc since before Garage Band came out.
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 19, 2021 13:09:09 GMT -6
I do this all the time but I don't do it by multi-ing out the output like you do.
Instead I just use sends. Most the time I just do a stereo send post fader from my main drum bus to a stereo Aux track and then slam the shit out of it on the aux then mix the aux track to taste. Both the Pcomp Aux and Drum bus get send to the submaster channel and I've never had phase issues.
You could do individual drums as well with their own sends I just do the whole kit usually though. Sends is a better way to do this as you could then control how much of the snare vs kick for instance you're sending to the parallel bus.
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Post by popmann on Mar 19, 2021 13:28:43 GMT -6
I have had this out with dev after dev...any DAW who trusts the plug dev to properly report isn't doing it's job. What more fundamental job does a DAW HAVE but to maintain the multitrack timeline? I successfully made that argument to the Nuendo team years ago. That if you want to compete with Avid hardware, you have to work...out of the gate...you can't BLAME a plug in maker for YOUR timeline being wrong. Even though I UNDERSTAND their misreporting caused the glitch...
Anyway...the way you trouble shoot this, John, is
-remove plug ins from both the direct and parallel bus. Is there still a problem? If so: call Avid-they're incurring latency on bussing they're not compensating for...but if all is GOOD, you keep going:
-add the plug ins to only the direct (but still monitoring BOTH)....one by one--making sure the phase stays solid. If one breaks it-you have your culprit. If not...
-repeat that, only with the plugs on the parallel bus
This is why I chose Cubase, though, years ago. Software ProTools has never fully done compensation right. It was frustrating because it always got "close"--but, I'd be constantly "wiggling wires" to get it lined back up. Toggling plug ins on and off...readding them....etc....the toggling you need to do in Cuabse is very specific:
If you have a plug in that some feature INSIDE the plug UI changes the latency requirements...after you enable that...you quickly toggle the plug off and on. This is because they DON'T "trust the dev"--they ping through on initiation. So, if you say enable a lookahead in FabFilter, you need to toggle it so it pings through again. That's the donwside to not trusting, but I'll take that any day--it's concrete. Repeatable. And has been sample accurate now for at least 12-15 years. It wasn't when they first rebooted into SX with the early Nuendo engine--that was a mess up in there...I don't remember when exactly they took my advice. Before C4. Which is the one I bought and tested to see if they had. So sometime between Nuendo 2/SX1...and C4.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2021 13:47:39 GMT -6
I have had this out with dev after dev...any DAW who trusts the plug dev to properly report isn't doing it's job. What more fundamental job does a DAW HAVE but to maintain the multitrack timeline? I successfully made that argument to the Nuendo team years ago. That if you want to compete with Avid hardware, you have to work...out of the gate...you can't BLAME a plug in maker for YOUR timeline being wrong. Even though I UNDERSTAND their misreporting caused the glitch... Anyway...the way you trouble shoot this, John, is -remove plug ins from both the direct and parallel bus. Is there still a problem? If so: call Avid-they're incurring latency on bussing they're not compensating for...but if all is GOOD, you keep going: -add the plug ins to only the direct (but still monitoring BOTH)....one by one--making sure the phase stays solid. If one breaks it-you have your culprit. If not... -repeat that, only with the plugs on the parallel bus This is why I chose Cubase, though, years ago. Software ProTools has never fully done compensation right. It was frustrating because it always got "close"--but, I'd be constantly "wiggling wires" to get it lined back up. Toggling plug ins on and off...readding them....etc....the toggling you need to do in Cuabse is very specific: If you have a plug in that some feature INSIDE the plug UI changes the latency requirements...after you enable that...you quickly toggle the plug off and on. This is because they DON'T "trust the dev"--they ping through on initiation. So, if you say enable a lookahead in FabFilter, you need to toggle it so it pings through again. That's the donwside to not trusting, but I'll take that any day--it's concrete. Repeatable. And has been sample accurate now for at least 12-15 years. It wasn't when they first rebooted into SX with the early Nuendo engine--that was a mess up in there...I don't remember when exactly they took my advice. Before C4. Which is the one I bought and tested to see if they had. So sometime between Nuendo 2/SX1...and C4. AVID shot themselves in the foot gimping the Native versions to sell hardware to studios. They gave project studios and finger and lost the home desktop daw race out of the gate to Cubase and Logic decades ago. Now Reaper is the standard DAW for metal and effects work ime. It has taken over a ton of mobile broadcast work too. If anyone doing those doesn’t use Reaper, you’ll have to trouble shoot it anyway so you might as well use it. The whole cottage industry around explaining it is pointless beyond Kenny Goia. The other guys other than Kenny G have terrible workflows, weird setups, and barely explain stuff. |
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Post by notneeson on Mar 19, 2021 14:39:15 GMT -6
Try taking the plugins off of the parallel bus and see if your phase issue clears up? Replace it with something like BF76 just to see is it's an ADC reporting issue? Switch to a send instead?
I just tried option clicking an aux output onto an audio track (stereo print from SD3), and added an SSL bus comp on the AUX I multed to. No phase issues here. Although weirdly, soloing gets wonky as it only solos the main output not the +output, had to mute everything else to listen closely to how the two were combining.
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 19, 2021 14:43:29 GMT -6
Try taking the plugins off of the parallel bus and see if your phase issue clears up? Replace it with something like BF76 just to see is it's an ADC reporting issue? Switch to a send instead? I just tried option clicking an aux output onto an audio track (stereo print from SD3), and added an SSL bus comp on the AUX I multed to. No phase issues here. Although weirdly, soloing gets wonky as it only solos the main output not the +output, had to mute everything else to listen closely to how the two were combining. Just solo safe the Parallel bus. On mac its control+click the solo button. |
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Post by notneeson on Mar 19, 2021 15:43:27 GMT -6
Try taking the plugins off of the parallel bus and see if your phase issue clears up? Replace it with something like BF76 just to see is it's an ADC reporting issue? Switch to a send instead? I just tried option clicking an aux output onto an audio track (stereo print from SD3), and added an SSL bus comp on the AUX I multed to. No phase issues here. Although weirdly, soloing gets wonky as it only solos the main output not the +output, had to mute everything else to listen closely to how the two were combining. Just solo safe the Parallel bus. On mac its control+click the solo button. Yep. That’s what I thought too, but it wasn’t working as expected. |
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