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Post by stratboy on Mar 10, 2021 15:38:34 GMT -6
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Post by mcirish on Mar 10, 2021 15:52:27 GMT -6
Seems interesting but kind of expensive considering what it is. Seriously, an inexpensive Oktava MC012 sounds nearly identical to a KM 84 when the source is within 12" and you don't have bleed from off axis sources. I did a lot of tests as did Dr Bill. It's true.
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Post by keymod on Mar 10, 2021 15:57:24 GMT -6
I just built the snare version this past weekend. Nice kit, quality parts. Snare version has a fixed pad for high spl and comes with a hyper-cardiod capsule to help eliminate bleed. Waiting for my engineer friend to give it a whirl.
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Post by stratboy on Mar 10, 2021 16:12:28 GMT -6
I have a KM-84 and I wouldn’t mind having another . On the other hand, my wallet would mind a lot considering what I paid for mine. Hence my continuing interest in a decent clone. Good to know the Oktava at close range gets you there. Also good to know about the MicParts kit quality. Please let us know what you think when you get a chance to test your new build. And I continue to hear nice things about the 3u cardioid flat.
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Post by hadaja on Mar 10, 2021 16:19:37 GMT -6
I always thought the Miktek c5 sounded good straight on but the price of these have gone up heaps.
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Post by mike on Mar 10, 2021 16:39:28 GMT -6
Seems interesting but kind of expensive considering what it is. Seriously, an inexpensive Oktava MC012 sounds nearly identical to a KM 84 when the source is within 12" and you don't have bleed from off axis sources. I did a lot of tests as did Dr Bill. It's true.
Do you mean a stock Oktava MC012 or a Jolly mod one compares close to a km 84 in that type of placement scenario ?
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Post by drbill on Mar 10, 2021 16:50:55 GMT -6
Seems interesting but kind of expensive considering what it is. Seriously, an inexpensive Oktava MC012 sounds nearly identical to a KM 84 when the source is within 12" and you don't have bleed from off axis sources. I did a lot of tests as did Dr Bill. It's true.
Do you mean a stock Oktava MC012 or a Jolly mod one compares close to a km 84 in that type of placement scenario ?
Joly modded. But from what I've heard, the NEWER stock 012's implemented a lot of the Joly mods. Can't confirm that for myself though. Mine are older, and Joly modded.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Mar 10, 2021 17:02:06 GMT -6
If you're patient and handy with a soldering iron, GroupDIY is about to do another run of 84 mic kits soon. This is a much cheaper option, and they sound great.
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Post by stratboy on Mar 10, 2021 17:10:14 GMT -6
I always thought the Miktek c5 sounded good straight on but the price of these have gone up heaps. Yes, it seems there are three price tiers: low end (price wise) possibilities are in the $200-$400 range (oktava, 3u, mic parts), then there is a $600-$900 tier (Soyuz, Beeznees, Miktek) and then up around $1100-$1500 these days, is the real thing.
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 17:23:52 GMT -6
If you're patient and handy with a soldering iron, GroupDIY is about to do another run of 84 mic kits soon. This is a much cheaper option, and they sound great. With Neumann capsules? How much?
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Post by chessparov on Mar 10, 2021 17:33:11 GMT -6
Where would you put the Warm WA-84, along the 84 food chain? Yesterday I heard an impressive vocal clip on one. Thanks, Chris
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Post by EmRR on Mar 10, 2021 19:27:52 GMT -6
I think the whole 'almost an 84' thing should be ignored and forgotten about. There are a ton of wanna be's making that claim, and that's all it is...a claim. Evaluate cheap mics on their own merits, there are a bunch of pretty good ones. None are an 84 or facsimile. $379 for an SDC mic KIT?!?! No. Not till you show as a steady stream of glowing reviews in pro audio mags. There are a LOT of really good legacy SDC's for less on the used market. Those have resale value! This is trash!
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Post by brenta on Mar 10, 2021 19:55:43 GMT -6
$379 for a mic I have to put together myself, probably made up entirely of Chinese OEM parts isn’t too tempting to me.
I wonder if this means we’ll be seeing a Roswell 84 soon?
I’m a little surprised that’s it’s been so difficult for anyone to make a good 84 clone. It doesn’t incorporate a scarce, out of production tube like many of the other legends. We’ve seen some really good 87i clones come out the last few years, why not an 84?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on Mar 10, 2021 19:58:36 GMT -6
I think the whole 'almost an 84' thing should be ignored and forgotten about. There are a ton of wanna be's making that claim, and that's all it is...a claim. Evaluate cheap mics on their own merits, there are a bunch of pretty good ones. None are an 84 or facsimile. $379 for an SDC mic KIT?!?! No. Not till you show as a steady stream of glowing reviews in pro audio mags. There are a LOT of really good legacy SDC's for less on the used market. Those have resale value! This is trash! OK while you know I am in complete agreement with you’ I’ll add one thing maybe if the threads are the same as the real thing and they actually nailed the sonics of the preamp, if I could use a real 80 series capsule. Maybe.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 10, 2021 20:25:22 GMT -6
I think the whole 'almost an 84' thing should be ignored and forgotten about. There are a ton of wanna be's making that claim, and that's all it is...a claim. Evaluate cheap mics on their own merits, there are a bunch of pretty good ones. None are an 84 or facsimile. $379 for an SDC mic KIT?!?! No. Not till you show as a steady stream of glowing reviews in pro audio mags. There are a LOT of really good legacy SDC's for less on the used market. Those have resale value! This is trash! OK while you know I am in complete agreement with you’ I’ll add one thing maybe if the threads are the same as the real thing and they actually nailed the sonics of the preamp, if I could use a real 80 series capsule. Maybe. But now you can't get one!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on Mar 10, 2021 21:03:49 GMT -6
OK while you know I am in complete agreement with you’ I’ll add one thing maybe if the threads are the same as the real thing and they actually nailed the sonics of the preamp, if I could use a real 80 series capsule. Maybe. But now you can't get one! You forget I know people 😎
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Post by superwack on Mar 10, 2021 21:05:17 GMT -6
I’m sick of both hardware AND software clones that always say something along the lines of “It’s an EXACT copy of the legendary XYZ except we’ve added (or removed) a transformer and there is a sligh HF bump the original didn’t have AND instead of A it does B... it’s LITERALLY a legend reborn” 🙄
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 10, 2021 21:27:05 GMT -6
I’m sick of both hardware AND software clones that always say something along the lines of “It’s an EXACT copy of the legendary XYZ except we’ve added (or removed) a transformer and there is a sligh HF bump the original didn’t have AND instead of A it does B... it’s LITERALLY a legend reborn” 🙄 You can’t tell it from the original in blind tests except for when you are listening!!
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 11, 2021 2:42:13 GMT -6
I’’m in the try it and judge it on its own merits and have not used a real 84. Had the joly modded, nice: a little bright still, currently have the warm 84 also nice and warmer than the Joly, listened a lot to the Soyuz, sounds luxurious.
I thought the diy kit expensive, never tried it.
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Post by keymod on Mar 11, 2021 4:49:22 GMT -6
I think the whole 'almost an 84' thing should be ignored and forgotten about. There are a ton of wanna be's making that claim, and that's all it is...a claim. Evaluate cheap mics on their own merits, there are a bunch of pretty good ones. None are an 84 or facsimile. $379 for an SDC mic KIT?!?! No. Not till you show as a steady stream of glowing reviews in pro audio mags. There are a LOT of really good legacy SDC's for less on the used market. Those have resale value! This is trash! The cost is worth it to me because I enjoy soldering and building kits, but I don't have the time to source all the different components from many different places - a pcb here, a capsule there, a BOM from that place, a transformer from yet another place, on & on. I understand going in that it's not going to be a real KM84. It's an experience and a learning process for me with the hope that the result will be usable regardless of whether or not it can hang with an original. This paticular kit doesn't seem to be trash, all chinese junk. I can't speak for the capsule, but there are name brand components soldered to the circuit board. The body is finished nicely, so I don't have to worry about painting it. So, who knows? I had fun building it.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 11, 2021 5:08:52 GMT -6
That’s a good approach, do it for your own reasons, it will give you the quick transients and depending on how on or off axis, you can play with its balance?
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 11, 2021 5:33:36 GMT -6
Ps I guess the real 84 love makes sense but at +$3000 usd per mike, never going to happen here.
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Post by svart on Mar 11, 2021 8:24:38 GMT -6
Do you mean a stock Oktava MC012 or a Jolly mod one compares close to a km 84 in that type of placement scenario ?
Joly modded. But from what I've heard, the NEWER stock 012's implemented a lot of the Joly mods. Can't confirm that for myself though. Mine are older, and Joly modded. And Joly implemented all of the mods he found for free on GDIY..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 11, 2021 8:27:43 GMT -6
Why not just buy a Soyuz 0-13 FET? It's like a KM84 completely modernized. More gain, less noise, but it really has a similar mojo. It's not trying to be a clone, it's more like an upgraded KM84 and stands on its own merits.
When tracking something important, I borrow my friend's KM84's. If they weren't available, the Soyuz is my next choice. Occasionally I'd choose it first.
It's all hand made, no Chinese parts nonsense. Another friend just did some tracks with it. I didn't know he'd bought it and commented that it was the best acoustic guitar sound he's ever gotten. He's done 7 albums.
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Post by svart on Mar 11, 2021 8:38:39 GMT -6
$379 for a mic I have to put together myself, probably made up entirely of Chinese OEM parts isn’t too tempting to me. I wonder if this means we’ll be seeing a Roswell 84 soon? I’m a little surprised that’s it’s been so difficult for anyone to make a good 84 clone. It doesn’t incorporate a scarce, out of production tube like many of the other legends. We’ve seen some really good 87i clones come out the last few years, why not an 84? As I understand, there's no particular reason that anyone hasn't cloned the 84 directly other than a sum of the parts. The capsules on the KM184 are similar, but on the km184 the rear vents are on the capsule themselves and can't be easily modified to match the km84 size. Making capsules exactly the same would be somewhat expensive, so the chinese types are similar, but with some choices for easier manufacturing, but this might be where the magic is lost since the km84 off-axis tone is where it really sets itself apart from others. You can buy kk84 capsules and do an almost perfect clone, but for the price, the clones you end up with will cost 1K$ each anyway since they'll need custom metalwork. The internals of the km84 are quite cramped and since it has a number of boards, it's a hand-building nightmare. Machines can't make it, and DIY would be difficult for most beginners. Special transformers would need to be made and specific parts procured, all at a premium. This all can be done but the initial production cost would be high and the per-unit BOM costs would be as high as some 84-like mics retail for and would be a hard sell. So you'd have to really have to nitpick the details to get it right, specifically the custom capsule to get the off-axis tone right. Many "clones" already match the frequency and impulse response just fine and get a very km84-like tone. Even the km184 gets it pretty close due to the capsule design, just with more brightness, and most folks haven't been able to pick one or the other in A/B tests. If you want the closest sound, get a km184 and dip 10K with a wide Q by a couple dB and you're almost there.
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