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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 8:57:13 GMT -6
So I've been wanting some extra channels of Neve style preamps. I bought a Vintech 473 the other day on Reverb. It arrived last week and I remember, as I opened the box, being fairly impressed how well it was packaged. Triple layers of bubble wrap securely taped around the each individual piece (main unit and power supply). Then everything surrounded on all sides by those larger air bags. It also had a UPS sticker on each piece, indicating that it had been packed by UPS, up to their standard. So I don't think this is a case of shipping damage.
I get the everything unwrapped and I notice that the output knob on channel one is bent. You can tell because it skews around depending on which way the knob is turned. Also, the back left corner of the lid is bent too.
Additionally, the seller couldn't even be bothered to give the 473 a quick wipe down before he shipped it. It was covered in dust, so I'm getting the impression that he maybe didn't take great care of it to begin with, hence maybe that's why it had the bent knob and lid.
Now, had it not been for the excellent nature of the way it was packaged, I would have initially thought that this damage happened during shipping. But for it to be packaged this well AND have damage in two different locations, I was skeptical that it wasn't shipped with the damage already in place.
To add to my skepticism, before I even received the 473, I inquired with the seller about the age of the unit. He said that he bought it new about 10 years ago. However, when I inquired yesterday with Vintech about what it would cost to get repairs made, the age of the 473 came up in discussion. Based on the serial number, Vintech tells me that it was made in 2019! So this leaves me wandering why the guy would lie about this and also just makes me generally not trust anything he's saying.
He finally messaged me back this morning, after two and a half days of trying to get a hold of him. Of course he's saying that I got a good deal and should have paid $1,000 more. He's also claiming that I should have asked for more pictures of cosmetics, to which I replied, why would I ask for pictures of the bent knob and lid that you never mentioned in your ad and that I had no idea existed?
The 473 was listed in "excellent" condition which, based on Reverb's description, would mean it shouldn't have a bent knob and lid. He's saying he sold it "as is" and is not liable for any sort of partial refund or any other action.
I've reported this to Reverb Support, and I'm now waiting to see what happens. Who here has had experience with a situation like this? Can I hope to expect to get anywhere with this or am I basically screwed?
I kind of need the additional channels, so provided no other damage has occurred to the circuit, and provided I can get the lid and knob repaired by Vintech, I'm inclined to want to keep the unit. I'd be perfectly fine with the seller just offsetting the cost of shipping/insuring to/from Vintech and the cost of the repairs themselves.
Thoughts?
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 10, 2021 9:02:39 GMT -6
My guess is that Reverb will inclined to side with you. They (Reverb/eBay etc) tend to be biased towards buyers. Just document everything. If I was you I’d ask some carefully worded questions of the seller...basically give him enough rope to hang himself and I’m betting he’ll basically incriminate himself.
Good luck.
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 9:03:26 GMT -6
Also, kudos to Vintech. When I spoke with them yesterday, they offered to replace the pot with the bent shaft for free. Just pay for the shipping there and back.
I've felt this way for a long time, but I'll say it again. Vintech makes quality, well made gear and their customer support is top notch. I'd trust a Vintech unit to last me a lot longer than a similar Neve clone from Warm. Not that Warm is bad, but the Vintech stuff is just built to last.
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 9:09:02 GMT -6
My guess is that Reverb will inclined to side with you. They (Reverb/eBay etc) tend to be biased towards buyers. Just document everything. If I was you I’d ask some carefully worded questions of the seller...basically give him enough rope to hang himself and I’m betting he’ll basically incriminate himself. Good luck. I feel like he already sort of did incriminate himself with his initial claim that he bought the unit 10 years ago. I asked about that this morning and now he's saying he got "mixed up". Can Reverb Support see all of the messages back and forth between the seller and I? |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 10, 2021 9:09:43 GMT -6
Hope it works out. That’s a great sounding unit for sure!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 9:17:45 GMT -6
Personally i would just send the unit to Vintech and keep it. I try to live in a less hassle the better world.
Everybody has their own way though..
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 9:19:33 GMT -6
Hahaha. I see the name calling phase has begun. He just messaged me again and called me a rapacious, rich, boring, old, geek. Well I might be a sort of geek/nerd, but who isn't at least a little bit of a geek that records music? As for the rest of that, yeah, I'm not any of those things.
I'm kind of done talking to this guy. We'll see what Reverb says and go from there.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 10, 2021 9:19:48 GMT -6
Yes, Reverb can see, but if you haven’t do a chat with them yourself just to completely document the issue during the return period. As it, clearly is not in excellent condition and the seller mislead you on the age, if you want to keep the unit, come up with an amount you would like refunded and why you think that’s fair and let Reverb know. They will likely advise you to communicate with seller, but will see you as reasonable and looking for a solution which they will likely support .
Good luck!
I’d just had them back me 100% with a buyer, 2-3 months after receiving the gear that was in mint condition, complaining it had been sold damaged, they back mr and shut down the comms between as he was insulting in his first email.
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 9:21:26 GMT -6
Personally i would just send the unit to Vintech and keep it. I try to live in a less hassle the better world. Everybody has their own way though.. My intention is to keep it. I would just like for the seller to offset the cost of repairs for damage he didn't bother to disclose in his ad. I may end up getting nowhere with this, but I'm at least going to try. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 9:28:09 GMT -6
Yes, Reverb can see, but if you haven’t do a chat with them yourself just to completely document the issue during the return period. As it, clearly is not in excellent condition and the seller mislead you on the age, if you want to keep the unit, come up with an amount you would like refunded and why you think that’s fair and let Reverb know. They will likely advise you to communicate with seller, but will see you as reasonable and looking for a solution which they will likely support . Good luck! I’d just had them back me 100% with a buyer, 2-3 months after receiving the gear that was in mint condition, complaining it had been sold damaged, they back mr and shut down the comms between as he was insulting in his first email. Yep, that's all pretty much exactly what I did. I want to keep the unit. I'd just like Reverb to adjust the amount I was charged by whatever the cost of repairs will be. I included the shipping and repair cost in my message to Reverb Support. I'm trying to be reasonable, but the seller has pretty much just started calling me all kinds of names in his subsequent messages. |
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Post by teejay on Mar 10, 2021 9:38:49 GMT -6
I say do your due diligence with Reverb and at least you know you did all you could. Not only will you hopefully recover some of your funds, but hopefully the guy will be tagged in some respect for the protection of future buyers from him. Hold his feet to the fire. There's such a thing as accountability.
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Post by sean on Mar 10, 2021 9:46:29 GMT -6
In these cases I tell people this is what it’ll cost to get it fixed and they’ll usually refund that amount. Coughing up $100 for shipping is better than a full refund...especially since the sellers probably already spent that money 😂
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Post by brenta on Mar 10, 2021 9:49:15 GMT -6
It sounds like he admitted that the unit was in that shape before shipping by saying you should have asked for more pictures. So he misrepresented the condition of the unit when he sold it. I've had good experiences with Reverb in these situations. But I think they'll give the seller the option of either paying for the repairs or allowing you to return it for a full refund.
Let us know how it works out.
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Post by tasteliketape on Mar 10, 2021 9:53:16 GMT -6
I traded for a comp from a trusted seller that was packed unbelievably well and showed up with bent knobs . It wasn’t that big a deal to me but just sayin it could happen .
Never underestimate UPS or Fedex ‘s ability to f’ up something! Lol
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 10, 2021 10:05:41 GMT -6
Let reverb know his messages are getting insulting as they can act like liaison.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 10, 2021 10:08:11 GMT -6
Quint, Reverb should work with you. I've had a couple issues as a buyer and always got some money back. Also, I'm fairly certain that if something is sold as-is, but in excellent condition, Reverb will say that the only stuff that can technically be sold as is would be actual broken equipment, listed as broken.
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Post by svart on Mar 10, 2021 10:12:33 GMT -6
So here's a fresh take..
UPS stores are just affiliates. They're usually mom/pop stores that hire minimum wage folks. It's totally possibly the person packing the box dropped the module, picked it up and just continued packing. They don't get paid to pay attention. On the off chance they actually noticed the damage, it's possible they just ignored it or decided not to tell anyone for fear of firing/paycheck docking.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 10, 2021 10:15:47 GMT -6
The shipping companies could bend a gold bar in a foam lined 3/4in ATA, but this sounds like it was already damaged. The seller is probably acting out because you caught him with his pants down and he knows he is going to lose.
Kudos to Vintech for being a class act in this.
Now I would simply remind the seller you could be returning it, because there is a fairly good argument that the unit was damaged prior to shipping was described as being in excellent condition and no mention of these issues he would probably end up eating return shipping at the very least and find himself in this exact spot anyway. $100 for shipping to get the unit repaired is getting off dirt cheap. Of course if he wants to argue that the damage happened during shipping you want to return the unit for a full refund because you can’t be sure the PCB isn’t damaged!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 10, 2021 10:27:33 GMT -6
So here's a fresh take.. UPS stores are just affiliates. They're usually mom/pop stores that hire minimum wage folks. It's totally possibly the person packing the box dropped the module, picked it up and just continued packing. They don't get paid to pay attention. On the off chance they actually noticed the damage, it's possible they just ignored it or decided not to tell anyone for fear of firing/paycheck docking. Yeah and ironically UPS would probably save a huge amount on damage payouts if they actually insisted on training these guys how to pack ! In the last 6 months every “professionally packed by UPS” box has arrived with dented because of use of bubble wrap and those balloons, since they stopped using peanuts the corners and the edges are left with zero reinforcement. UPS guys hateme ( I did call the cops on a driver who was blocking the sidewalk while I was in the wheelchair, really stupid to do at the library that gets funding to be ADA accessible). It took 3 years for one UPS driver to realize it is easier to to unload at our loading dock rather than hand truck up a set of stairs! Here is one you probably haven’t seen yet, the bags Amazon guys just drag on interior floors. |
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Post by stratboy on Mar 10, 2021 11:19:47 GMT -6
I’ve gotten good, fair support from Reverb on both sides of transactions.
And as for Vintech, the quality of their products and customer support are off the charts. Nothing but good things to say about those folks.
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 11:33:33 GMT -6
In these cases I tell people this is what it’ll cost to get it fixed and they’ll usually refund that amount. Coughing up $100 for shipping is better than a full refund...especially since the sellers probably already spent that money 😂 I would have thought that maybe Reverb hadn't released the money to the seller yet? I'm not sure how all of this works. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 11:37:20 GMT -6
It sounds like he admitted that the unit was in that shape before shipping by saying you should have asked for more pictures. So he misrepresented the condition of the unit when he sold it. I've had good experiences with Reverb in these situations. But I think they'll give the seller the option of either paying for the repairs or allowing you to return it for a full refund. Let us know how it works out. Yeah, he seems to not be too strongly defending his position, that the damage happened during shipping, when he keeps saying things like "but does the 473 still sound awesome?" and "why didn't you ask for more pictures before you bought it?", etc. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 11:39:37 GMT -6
Quint, Reverb should work with you. I've had a couple issues as a buyer and always got some money back. Also, I'm fairly certain that if something is sold as-is, but in excellent condition, Reverb will say that the only stuff that can technically be sold as is would be actual broken equipment, listed as broken. Yeah, I'm not sure what the rules are on selling "as is". The seller keeps saying "as is", but then my response has been, but said it was in excellent condition. My decision to buy it was based, in part, on the fact that the seller said it was in excellent condition. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2021 11:45:36 GMT -6
So here's a fresh take.. UPS stores are just affiliates. They're usually mom/pop stores that hire minimum wage folks. It's totally possibly the person packing the box dropped the module, picked it up and just continued packing. They don't get paid to pay attention. On the off chance they actually noticed the damage, it's possible they just ignored it or decided not to tell anyone for fear of firing/paycheck docking. I suppose nothing is impossible, but the damaged locations are on opposite ends of the 473. I'm just saying, unless they were throwing it across the room, it seems harder for me to believe that something like this occurred. And like I said, I was impressed with the quality of packing. Someone apparently did it with some care. A plastic liner around each unit, followed by a layer of small bubble wrap, followed by two separate layers of large bubble wrap. All of these layers were individually taped on their own. Then all of that went into the box with multiple layers of air bags on all sides. |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 10, 2021 11:46:53 GMT -6
Quint , Reverb should work with you. I've had a couple issues as a buyer and always got some money back. Also, I'm fairly certain that if something is sold as-is, but in excellent condition, Reverb will say that the only stuff that can technically be sold as is would be actual broken equipment, listed as broken. Yeah, I'm not sure what the rules are on selling "as is". The seller keeps saying "as is", but then my response has been, but said it was in excellent condition. My decision to buy it was based, in part, on the fact that the seller said it was in excellent condition. 'as is' also means 'as described, no more no less, full disclosure'. Something hidden is something hidden. |
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