ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,918 
|
Post by ericn on Feb 27, 2021 12:01:26 GMT -6
Roger designs the Foote Control Systems equipment. Nice stuff. Yeah, I had a Foote buss compressor, very nice. Then he really should control himself and behave better in a public forum! That kind of extremism is a great way to drive customers away. There are guys who can design gear and guys who can run a company, most of the time they are not the same thing. Also it always amazed me how many guys locked themselves in the basement and built there ideal gear, never socializing. |
|
|
|
Post by audioscape on Mar 3, 2021 16:30:32 GMT -6
Mannnnnn.... just had to chime in and share an experience I had with the upcoming AS REVERB!!
But, before I do - I personally think the reason we haven’t seen basically any other boutique analog hardware company try to tackle this is because, frankly - the time, work and moreover, deep KNOWLEDGE base that’s absolutely necessary to pull this kind of product off is INCREDIBLY difficult.
We were lucky enough (by kismet or serendipity or both) to connect with the main engineer behind the original unit - and let me tell you, his knowledge of using a multitude of springs and reverb sleds to create a rackmount reverb that sounds like a plate is unsurpassed. The white paper he wrote that scientifically breaks down the inner-workings and underlying principles of the unit and how it works is QUITE the read - we likely can’t release most of it for obvious reasons but I’ll likely amend it and release it on the site once it’s released for all those interested in White Papers and how crazy and fun they are to try and understand! Hahaha
ANYHOW!! I threw the XL.... oops I mean AS VERB on the BUSS of some songs Chris wrote that I am adding additional parts and elements
to and it sounded absolutely SPLENDID!! On fkn 2BUSS!! To me, that’s CRAZY!!
Also threw it on Chris’s vocal and it was like 😱😱🥳🥳🔥🔥
Anyhow, thanks for all the love y’all!!! ❤️❤️💪💪🙏🙏
|
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on Mar 3, 2021 16:51:27 GMT -6
It seems that you have a MASTER plan for this product...  Gotta sell a 2U hardware unit to make room... Edit: uh oh I think I might actually need a A LOT more rack space... |
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 3, 2021 16:59:58 GMT -6
Mannnnnn.... just had to chime in and share an experience I had with the upcoming AS REVERB!! But, before I do - I personally think the reason we haven’t seen basically any other boutique analog hardware company try to tackle this is because, frankly - the time, work and moreover, deep KNOWLEDGE base that’s absolutely necessary to pull this kind of product off is INCREDIBLY difficult. We were lucky enough (by kismet or serendipity or both) to connect with the main engineer behind the original unit - and let me tell you, his knowledge of using a multitude of springs and reverb sleds to create a rackmount reverb that sounds like a plate is unsurpassed. The white paper he wrote that scientifically breaks down the inner-workings and underlying principles of the unit and how it works is QUITE the read - we likely can’t release most of it for obvious reasons but I’ll likely amend it and release it on the site once it’s released for all those interested in White Papers and how crazy and fun they are to try and understand! Hahaha ANYHOW!! I threw the XL.... oops I mean AS VERB on the BUSS of some songs Chris wrote that I am adding additional parts and elements to and it sounded absolutely SPLENDID!! On fkn 2BUSS!! To me, that’s CRAZY!! Also threw it on Chris’s vocal and it was like 😱😱🥳🥳🔥🔥 Anyhow, thanks for all the love y’all!!! ❤️❤️💪💪🙏🙏 I wonder how many sheckles I'll need for this. Ohh my... |
|
|
|
Post by dreamsambas on Mar 3, 2021 17:20:47 GMT -6
If it's a reissue of a MicMix unit, that'd be incredible! I thought the guy behind that company had passed?
I actually have an XL305, bought it right before Covid hit, but admit I haven't used it yet...
|
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Mar 3, 2021 18:08:14 GMT -6
Hmmm. It sure is sounding like it's going to be a Master Room XL unit. What do I win for guessing correctly? |
|
|
|
Post by mhbunch on Mar 4, 2021 7:13:46 GMT -6
If it's a reissue of a MicMix unit, that'd be incredible! I thought the guy behind that company had passed? I actually have an XL305, bought it right before Covid hit, but admit I haven't used it yet... Our XL305 gets used on every session. Really incredible sounding unit, although I think it sounds more like a chamber than a plate. |
|
|
|
Post by dreamsambas on Mar 4, 2021 10:49:15 GMT -6
If it's a reissue of a MicMix unit, that'd be incredible! I thought the guy behind that company had passed? I actually have an XL305, bought it right before Covid hit, but admit I haven't used it yet... Our XL305 gets used on every session. Really incredible sounding unit, although I think it sounds more like a chamber than a plate. Cool! What sources do you like to use your XL305 on? |
|
|
|
Post by mhbunch on Mar 4, 2021 12:04:09 GMT -6
Our XL305 gets used on every session. Really incredible sounding unit, although I think it sounds more like a chamber than a plate. Cool! What sources do you like to use your XL305 on? Love it on percussion. Here is a sample of a little stomp/clap part from a session this week. Unprocessed.
Also used it as the only reverb send for an early RVG Blue Note sounding album with a jazz trio and it worked great for that.
|
|
|
|
Post by audioscape on Mar 5, 2021 19:19:25 GMT -6
If it's a reissue of a MicMix unit, that'd be incredible! I thought the guy behind that company had passed? I actually have an XL305, bought it right before Covid hit, but admit I haven't used it yet... ::grins:: We're working with the lead engineer on the project - We know there is a TON of love for the original units out there - but they're noisy, the reverb itself great but admittedly, according to the designer could be made even BETTER but at the time they were obviously limited to the parts being made at the time. The entire circuit has been overhauled in many, many, many small ways - simply employing methods to DRASTICALLY lower the noise floor, make the EQ better sounding a more useable PLUS the overall Equal-Temperament spring sled system has been tweaked and tweaked over the years by the designer to be as PLATE/CHAMBER like as possible. It's simply STUNNING sounding. We have an original unit here which in the early stages, we would constantly reference against - and even from the first prototype unit, it was clear that our new REISSUE was just more lush, richer, had more depth and was overall more useable. In particular, the tail of the verb decays in a way which sounds absolutely gorgeous - very plate like. Suffice all of that to say - this REISSUE circuit / design is the result of over a decade of work from the original designer - digging in deep and making an awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping unit. This is basically his last HOORAY and we were the right folks for the job ;-) Thanks so much y'all!! Can't wait to get some teaser samples for you!!! |
|
|
|
Post by mhbunch on Mar 5, 2021 22:23:09 GMT -6
If it's a reissue of a MicMix unit, that'd be incredible! I thought the guy behind that company had passed? I actually have an XL305, bought it right before Covid hit, but admit I haven't used it yet... ::grins:: We're working with the lead engineer on the project - We know there is a TON of love for the original units out there - but they're noisy, the reverb itself great but admittedly, according to the designer could be made even BETTER but at the time they were obviously limited to the parts being made at the time. The entire circuit has been overhauled in many, many, many small ways - simply employing methods to DRASTICALLY lower the noise floor, make the EQ better sounding a more useable PLUS the overall Equal-Temperament spring sled system has been tweaked and tweaked over the years by the designer to be as PLATE/CHAMBER like as possible. It's simply STUNNING sounding. We have an original unit here which in the early stages, we would constantly reference against - and even from the first prototype unit, it was clear that our new REISSUE was just more lush, richer, had more depth and was overall more useable. In particular, the tail of the verb decays in a way which sounds absolutely gorgeous - very plate like. Suffice all of that to say - this REISSUE circuit / design is the result of over a decade of work from the original designer - digging in deep and making an awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping unit. This is basically his last HOORAY and we were the right folks for the job ;-) Thanks so much y'all!! Can't wait to get some teaser samples for you!!! You had me at more lush. Count me in!! |
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Mar 6, 2021 1:01:33 GMT -6
If it's a reissue of a MicMix unit, that'd be incredible! I thought the guy behind that company had passed? I actually have an XL305, bought it right before Covid hit, but admit I haven't used it yet... ::grins:: We're working with the lead engineer on the project - We know there is a TON of love for the original units out there - but they're noisy, the reverb itself great but admittedly, according to the designer could be made even BETTER but at the time they were obviously limited to the parts being made at the time. The entire circuit has been overhauled in many, many, many small ways - simply employing methods to DRASTICALLY lower the noise floor, make the EQ better sounding a more useable PLUS the overall Equal-Temperament spring sled system has been tweaked and tweaked over the years by the designer to be as PLATE/CHAMBER like as possible. It's simply STUNNING sounding. We have an original unit here which in the early stages, we would constantly reference against - and even from the first prototype unit, it was clear that our new REISSUE was just more lush, richer, had more depth and was overall more useable. In particular, the tail of the verb decays in a way which sounds absolutely gorgeous - very plate like. Suffice all of that to say - this REISSUE circuit / design is the result of over a decade of work from the original designer - digging in deep and making an awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping unit. This is basically his last HOORAY and we were the right folks for the job ;-) Thanks so much y'all!! Can't wait to get some teaser samples for you!!! I've been following this thread closely. I'm a big fan of spring reverb and use various tanks in my studio when mixing, and I'm also a fan of the Demeter Real Reverb. Plates are not an option for me at this time nor is building a chamber. But springs add a reverb realism that I love. That said, inherent in a spring is it's metallic sound and it's drippy boing when hit hard. It's simultaneously its charm and limitation. Reading your descriptions of the AudioScape unit it sounds like you've overcome some of these limitations. I'm not asking for trade secrets but can you give some insight on how this is being done? A quieter circuit would be great but isn't that still a spring but with higher fidelity? And how is having EQ built in better than tweaking EQ in a DAW? Also, are you building your own spring tanks or are you using those currently being manufactured? Please don't read this post as being critical. I'm just curious to get past the adjectives to learn how this new unit seeks to move beyond what we normally expect from springs. Thanks! |
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on Mar 6, 2021 5:00:32 GMT -6
I’m out of rack space and out of I/O. Something’s gotta go.
I suppose this is a few months away?
|
|
|
|
Post by audioscape on Mar 6, 2021 19:14:00 GMT -6
I’m out of rack space and out of I/O. Something’s gotta go. I suppose this is a few months away? Hahahaha, DEFINITELY several months out. They are a TOTAL B*TCH to build to be perfectly honest... |
|
|
|
Post by audioscape on Mar 6, 2021 19:54:26 GMT -6
::grins:: We're working with the lead engineer on the project - We know there is a TON of love for the original units out there - but they're noisy, the reverb itself great but admittedly, according to the designer could be made even BETTER but at the time they were obviously limited to the parts being made at the time. The entire circuit has been overhauled in many, many, many small ways - simply employing methods to DRASTICALLY lower the noise floor, make the EQ better sounding a more useable PLUS the overall Equal-Temperament spring sled system has been tweaked and tweaked over the years by the designer to be as PLATE/CHAMBER like as possible. It's simply STUNNING sounding. We have an original unit here which in the early stages, we would constantly reference against - and even from the first prototype unit, it was clear that our new REISSUE was just more lush, richer, had more depth and was overall more useable. In particular, the tail of the verb decays in a way which sounds absolutely gorgeous - very plate like. Suffice all of that to say - this REISSUE circuit / design is the result of over a decade of work from the original designer - digging in deep and making an awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping unit. This is basically his last HOORAY and we were the right folks for the job ;-) Thanks so much y'all!! Can't wait to get some teaser samples for you!!! I've been following this thread closely. I'm a big fan of spring reverb and use various tanks in my studio when mixing, and I'm also a fan of the Demeter Real Reverb. Plates are not an option for me at this time nor is building a chamber. But springs add a reverb realism that I love. That said, inherent in a spring is it's metallic sound and it's drippy boing when hit hard. It's simultaneously its charm and limitation. Reading your descriptions of the AudioScape unit it sounds like you've overcome some of these limitations. I'm not asking for trade secrets but can you give some insight on how this is being done? A quieter circuit would be great but isn't that still a spring but with higher fidelity? And how is having EQ built in better than tweaking EQ in a DAW? Also, are you building your own spring tanks or are you using those currently being manufactured? Please don't read this post as being critical. I'm just curious to get past the adjectives to learn how this new unit seeks to move beyond what we normally expect from springs. Thanks! Hey there!! GREAT questions being posed here and as always, I'm MORE than happy to clarify to the best of my ability! :-) So, the original XL-305 used an extremely clever and complex sled system, 4 in total with each spring sled containing multiple springs all cut at different but extremely precise and calculated lengths that connect to each other. Quite frankly, the WAY in which the original designers overcame the inherent "drippy boing and metallic" sound of a typical spring reverb found in say, a Fender amp is above my understanding and intelligence level, hahaha. I DO know that EACH of the 4 total sleds represents a different decay and RT time, but they all work in tandem (I believe this is correct) and because each sled's springs are SO precisely calculated, we end up with each sled being 'tuned' and the whole enchelida ends up being, as we call it by the technical term "Equal Temperament" - which by definition is defined as: "A tuning system in which the octave is divided into 12 semitones of equal size" To ME, this is the magic. The magic is in the reverb sleds and the insanity that's going on inside each sled. This is not just a regular ole' spring reverb with a higher fidelity, this is a completely DIFFERENT and NOVEL way to use 'springs' to emulate the sound of a plate/chamber. By noise, I was referring to the unit's actual noise floor - which is well below -95dBFS the last time I measured it. The MAGIC of the unit truly lies in the custom made reverb sleds and the numerous springs inside each that are all cut to different lengths and ultimately connected together (4 rows of springs in each sled that span the length of one "regular" spring - but each row contains 2, 3 or even 4 different length springs). We are indeed building the spring tanks by hand - the sleds themselves are provided by Accutronics (made to our custom specifications of course) but we have to literally "stuff" the sleds with the myriad of springs needed in each. It's a VERY time consuming and labor intensive process that requires absolute precision as I'm sure you can imagine! The EQ section and it's 4 fixed frequency bands were carefully selected by the original designers and sit at the output of the reverb signal before any of the summing or mono circuitry takes place. In the original literature, the EQ is cited as being a tool to better help simulate OTHER types of reverbs, such as Plates, Concert Halls and Acoustic Chambers - and let me tell ya, it's AMAZING in real-world use. For a better idea of the unit, here's an excerpt from an advert for the original XL-305 - which was actually dubbed as an "Acoustic Chamber Synthesizer" ;-) ------------------------- "The Master-Room XL-305 is a unique design approach in self-contained reverberation systems. This "Acoustic Chamber Synthesizer" incorporates new technology that stems from years of research and analysis of "live" chambers currently in use in the recording industry. Properties such as room volume, echo densitv, and reverberation time versus frequency were studied. The most desirable characteristics of these live chambers are incorporated into the XL-305 The result: The sound of a live acoustic chamber in a rack-mount package. A live chamber does not have the boing, twang, and flutter that are normally found in compact reverberation units. The XL-305 produces none of these unwanted sounds. A percussive attack, or any transient signal, is difficult for most compact reverbs to reproduce naturally. Under these conditions, a reverb is most likely to produce undesirable side effects. The performance of the XL-305 under transient conditions is outstanding." ------------------------- Take all of that - and imagine an updated, tweaked and HIGHLY refined version of the above. The difference between the original and our re-issue is AMAZING... as I mentioned before, especially in the decay and tail of the reverb. I was hitting it HARD last week - strapped across my 2BUSS and could CRANK into it WITHOUT it turning into a boingy, nasty mess. It was WAYYYYY too much reverb, but it held up like a CHAMP and sounded AWESOME. I hope all of this helps man! Apologies for the novel - it's such a complex piece and it's hard to explain because nothing else out there really DOES what this unit DOES and especially the WAY it does it! <3 ;-) |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Mar 6, 2021 20:17:36 GMT -6
audioscape - Charlie - two questions. 1.) - once "tuned" and calibrated, will the unit ever need any maintainance? In other words, will things ever sag or loosen up or go out of tune over time? 2.) - is this a stereo unit? (maybe missed this somewhere along the line.....)
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 7, 2021 7:44:36 GMT -6
I’m out of rack space and out of I/O. Something’s gotta go. I suppose this is a few months away? I’m out of money |
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on Mar 7, 2021 7:47:16 GMT -6
I’m out of rack space and out of I/O. Something’s gotta go. I suppose this is a few months away? I’m out of money Oh, yes, there's that small matter too!!!  |
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Mar 7, 2021 10:32:31 GMT -6
I've been following this thread closely. I'm a big fan of spring reverb and use various tanks in my studio when mixing, and I'm also a fan of the Demeter Real Reverb. Plates are not an option for me at this time nor is building a chamber. But springs add a reverb realism that I love. That said, inherent in a spring is it's metallic sound and it's drippy boing when hit hard. It's simultaneously its charm and limitation. Reading your descriptions of the AudioScape unit it sounds like you've overcome some of these limitations. I'm not asking for trade secrets but can you give some insight on how this is being done? A quieter circuit would be great but isn't that still a spring but with higher fidelity? And how is having EQ built in better than tweaking EQ in a DAW? Also, are you building your own spring tanks or are you using those currently being manufactured? Please don't read this post as being critical. I'm just curious to get past the adjectives to learn how this new unit seeks to move beyond what we normally expect from springs. Thanks! Hey there!! GREAT questions being posed here and as always, I'm MORE than happy to clarify to the best of my ability! :-) So, the original XL-305 used an extremely clever and complex sled system, 4 in total with each spring sled containing multiple springs all cut at different but extremely precise and calculated lengths that connect to each other. Quite frankly, the WAY in which the original designers overcame the inherent "drippy boing and metallic" sound of a typical spring reverb found in say, a Fender amp is above my understanding and intelligence level, hahaha. I DO know that EACH of the 4 total sleds represents a different decay and RT time, but they all work in tandem (I believe this is correct) and because each sled's springs are SO precisely calculated, we end up with each sled being 'tuned' and the whole enchelida ends up being, as we call it by the technical term "Equal Temperament" - which by definition is defined as: "A tuning system in which the octave is divided into 12 semitones of equal size" To ME, this is the magic. The magic is in the reverb sleds and the insanity that's going on inside each sled. This is not just a regular ole' spring reverb with a higher fidelity, this is a completely DIFFERENT and NOVEL way to use 'springs' to emulate the sound of a plate/chamber. By noise, I was referring to the unit's actual noise floor - which is well below -95dBFS the last time I measured it. The MAGIC of the unit truly lies in the custom made reverb sleds and the numerous springs inside each that are all cut to different lengths and ultimately connected together (4 rows of springs in each sled that span the length of one "regular" spring - but each row contains 2, 3 or even 4 different length springs). We are indeed building the spring tanks by hand - the sleds themselves are provided by Accutronics (made to our custom specifications of course) but we have to literally "stuff" the sleds with the myriad of springs needed in each. It's a VERY time consuming and labor intensive process that requires absolute precision as I'm sure you can imagine! The EQ section and it's 4 fixed frequency bands were carefully selected by the original designers and sit at the output of the reverb signal before any of the summing or mono circuitry takes place. In the original literature, the EQ is cited as being a tool to better help simulate OTHER types of reverbs, such as Plates, Concert Halls and Acoustic Chambers - and let me tell ya, it's AMAZING in real-world use. For a better idea of the unit, here's an excerpt from an advert for the original XL-305 - which was actually dubbed as an "Acoustic Chamber Synthesizer" ;-) ------------------------- "The Master-Room XL-305 is a unique design approach in self-contained reverberation systems. This "Acoustic Chamber Synthesizer" incorporates new technology that stems from years of research and analysis of "live" chambers currently in use in the recording industry. Properties such as room volume, echo densitv, and reverberation time versus frequency were studied. The most desirable characteristics of these live chambers are incorporated into the XL-305 The result: The sound of a live acoustic chamber in a rack-mount package. A live chamber does not have the boing, twang, and flutter that are normally found in compact reverberation units. The XL-305 produces none of these unwanted sounds. A percussive attack, or any transient signal, is difficult for most compact reverbs to reproduce naturally. Under these conditions, a reverb is most likely to produce undesirable side effects. The performance of the XL-305 under transient conditions is outstanding." ------------------------- Take all of that - and imagine an updated, tweaked and HIGHLY refined version of the above. The difference between the original and our re-issue is AMAZING... as I mentioned before, especially in the decay and tail of the reverb. I was hitting it HARD last week - strapped across my 2BUSS and could CRANK into it WITHOUT it turning into a boingy, nasty mess. It was WAYYYYY too much reverb, but it held up like a CHAMP and sounded AWESOME. I hope all of this helps man! Apologies for the novel - it's such a complex piece and it's hard to explain because nothing else out there really DOES what this unit DOES and especially the WAY it does it! <3 ;-) Thanks for the incredibly thoughtful and succinct answers! And the fact that you're so jazzed about it says a lot. Engineers still love the sound of physical and analog gear to process and mix tracks. If this is half of what you believe it to be I predict it could surprisingly be one of your best sellers. Case is point is how Radial's EXTC (inserts guitar pedals into the mix) became their best selling piece of gear. And as I mentioned earlier, I still think the world could use an upgraded rack mount stereo analog delay! |
|
|
|
Post by audioscape on Mar 7, 2021 23:59:15 GMT -6
audioscape - Charlie - two questions. 1.) - once "tuned" and calibrated, will the unit ever need any maintainance? In other words, will things ever sag or loosen up or go out of tune over time? 2.) - is this a stereo unit? (maybe missed this somewhere along the line.....) Always happy to answer! 1. In theory, NO. There are lord knows how many ORIGINAL XL-305's in daily use and besides a recap job, they all still sound great (I've spoken to many folks who own an original, as well as asked the original designer this very same question and his answer was the same ;-) 2. YES! Absolutely a stereo unit with the ability so sum L+R inputs to MONO OR sum the L+R OUTPUT to MONO, which is very cool! lpedrum - aww man, you're too kind!! My pleasure. I am BEYOND over the moon with this unit and I think you're right - I hope it does become one of our top 3 selling units - not only is it such a unique, unbeatable sound - but it can't be had in the analog domain by ANYONE else and we actually OWN the I.P. of the unit's circuitry and unique design, which is a bonus! I didn't know the Radial EXTC became their best selling unit but it makes TOTAL sense - that's a tool ANY creative engineer needs in their toolbox; whether they know it yet or not, hahaha. |
|
|
|
Post by veggieryan on Mar 9, 2021 12:01:13 GMT -6
I have a Master-Room XL-305 I use everyday and it is absolutely in the same league as my EMT-140... different flavor but it has a richness and depth that no digital unit can even begin to approach. The main difference is that you can't alter the decay time like a plate. You have to set the gain carefully to the sweet spot because the analog drivers are the weak link and then it really blooms, especially with tape delay/distortion in front of it. Some of the things I have heard it doing are pure magic the way sounds echo and recombine into new harmonics... almost like string sections being added to an acoustic guitar track for example. Really excited to hear that you are improving the analog I/O sections and EQ!!! Compression is useful in front as well to stay in the sweet spot. You picked the best spring reverb ever to reproduce. Other spring reverbs are nice for that sproing splash surf tone but this unit is as close to a real plate lushness as most people with limited space will ever be lucky enough to experience. Any ideas on a ballpark price point?
|
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Mar 9, 2021 14:04:38 GMT -6
Any ideas on a ballpark price point? I think I was told a rough price point that they are shooting for in confidence, but all I will say is that like all other AS gear, I think it's extremely reasonable. |
|
|
|
Post by m03 on Mar 9, 2021 14:52:22 GMT -6
Any recommended XL305 sound examples out there available to get a feel for the general sound of the unit? The few I examples managed to find on YT were pretty rough.
|
|
|
|
Post by mhbunch on Mar 10, 2021 10:09:08 GMT -6
Any recommended XL305 sound examples out there available to get a feel for the general sound of the unit? The few I examples managed to find on YT were pretty rough. Did you see my post above? |
|
|
|
Post by m03 on Mar 10, 2021 11:21:46 GMT -6
Any recommended XL305 sound examples out there available to get a feel for the general sound of the unit? The few I examples managed to find on YT were pretty rough. Did you see my post above? I did miss that. Much appreciated. |
|
