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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2021 16:20:45 GMT -6
Slight clickbait topic, I'll admit it. But I'm only half joking.
People seem to love talking about how great this or that gate is (in a thread on this forum talking about the PA 9000J plug, this comes up). I see it a lot. What am I missing?
I can see how gates were really important when using long analog signal chains with high noise floors, but if I'm on a fairly clean path... is there really a use? The only thing I can think of is "special" effects on drums and things.
I'm a pretty straightforward guy in my recording style (less is more because the less I do the less I can mess up) but I'm also always on the lookout for stuff I'm missing. So what am I missing?
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Post by wiz on Feb 18, 2021 16:23:46 GMT -6
I sometimes use MR GATE from wave arts, on something like an acoustic guitar chunky rhythm part, set it just right and it sort of tightens the rhythm,,..... that's one use I can think of.
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2021 16:25:35 GMT -6
I sometimes use MR GATE from wave arts, on something like an acoustic guitar chunky rhythm part, set it just right and it sort of tightens the rhythm,,..... that's one use I can think of. Cheers Wiz Ok, so what would be gated here? I'm not sure the right way to ask that but I guess I'm wondering what signal you're removing and what remains.
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Post by drbill on Feb 18, 2021 16:29:35 GMT -6
You can play with envelopes of sounds with a gate as well. Or place them AFTER a noisy plugin (Pulsar EchoRec comes to mind) to KEEP your mixes clean.
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Post by phdamage on Feb 18, 2021 16:32:04 GMT -6
certainly not always useful, but very helpful on drums in dense productions. i'd imagine most folks can appreciate a top snare mic gated with a key input from the top mic, even if you're not mixing a metal record.
if you're just using Glyn Johns technique or something similar, yeah, i can't imagine having much use for one there. but they are often useful for handling/ambient noise on vocal tracks or other things. you can certainly do a lot of this manually in your DAW, but sometimes a gate is just easier
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Post by ragan on Feb 18, 2021 16:33:27 GMT -6
A really ubiquitous use for gates is minimizing bleed with multi-mic'd drums. Like gating the tom mics so you don't get weird, off-axis cymbals going all the time. Or trying to keep the hi-hats out of the snare mic.
Also, if you're trying to key a sample with, say, the kick drum. Gating the hell out of it keeps it from keying off the snare or toms as well.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2021 16:34:18 GMT -6
wiz - Totally unrelated but nice dobro (I think) on Save Me From Me... really thick sound to my ears, nice job.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 18, 2021 16:36:34 GMT -6
Like others, I use gates on multi miked drums. Usually an SSL channel strip, typically.
Another use I have is DI guitar into an amp simulator. A little gate can clean up the 60 cycle buzz when you're not playing. Some of the more advanced amp sims will have this gate built into the program as a module.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2021 16:38:27 GMT -6
certainly not always useful, but very helpful on drums in dense productions. i'd imagine most folks can appreciate a top snare mic gated with a key input from the top mic, even if you're not mixing a metal record. if you're just using Glyn Johns technique or something similar, yeah, i can't imagine having much use for one there. but they are often useful for handling/ambient noise on vocal tracks or other things. you can certainly do a lot of this manually in your DAW, but sometimes a gate is just easier Aha... this must be what's eluding me. I'm a "drums as one instrument" type guy when I'm recording. My room can't tolerate Full Glyn (10' x 15') but I'm using the Recorder Man three mic approach. I can definitely see how a gate would be useful for a close tom sound. However, maybe I'll try this on my kick which is catching more room sound than I'd like (though I like the tone otherwise).
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2021 16:41:05 GMT -6
Ok, great answers. And now that I think about it I can think of one time when I made good use of a gate. I was hired to mix a project that I had no involvement in recording and the bass player had tracked with such messed up compression settings that it was pumping the bass all over.
Fortunately the compression was set SO badly that the pumping happened at pretty much the same time every time (we're talking like a 5db boost at the tail of every note) so I was able to gate it down with the 9000J gate.
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Post by jaba on Feb 18, 2021 16:47:33 GMT -6
Hi all. First post!
I'm not a huge gate guy but they can be super handy for envelope shaping and getting rid of stray noise when you're stuck, as mentioned. Recently mixed an electronic tune that had some reverb built into a kick which got a bit too loud after compression. Gate put it back in its place real nice.
They can also be fun to throw on a synth pad then use something percussive as a trigger. Adjust floor level to taste.
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Post by phdamage on Feb 18, 2021 17:00:37 GMT -6
certainly not always useful, but very helpful on drums in dense productions. i'd imagine most folks can appreciate a top snare mic gated with a key input from the top mic, even if you're not mixing a metal record. if you're just using Glyn Johns technique or something similar, yeah, i can't imagine having much use for one there. but they are often useful for handling/ambient noise on vocal tracks or other things. you can certainly do a lot of this manually in your DAW, but sometimes a gate is just easier Aha... this must be what's eluding me. I'm a "drums as one instrument" type guy when I'm recording. My room can't tolerate Full Glyn (10' x 15') but I'm using the Recorder Man three mic approach. I can definitely see how a gate would be useful for a close tom sound. However, maybe I'll try this on my kick which is catching more room sound than I'd like (though I like the tone otherwise). oh i wish toms were this easy! sadly, most drummers are so erratic with them (pounding the hell out of them or barely hitting them on their rolls), that setting a gate is often impossible. most folks i know end up editing all of the tom hits by hand. makes me wish i had an intern!
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Post by drumsound on Feb 18, 2021 17:09:02 GMT -6
Slight clickbait topic, I'll admit it. But I'm only half joking. People seem to love talking about how great this or that gate is (in a thread on this forum talking about the PA 9000J plug, this comes up). I see it a lot. What am I missing? I can see how gates were really important when using long analog signal chains with high noise floors, but if I'm on a fairly clean path... is there really a use? The only thing I can think of is "special" effects on drums and things. I'm a pretty straightforward guy in my recording style (less is more because the less I do the less I can mess up) but I'm also always on the lookout for stuff I'm missing. So what am I missing? I always assumed they were invented to make drum sets not sound like one instrument.
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Post by ragan on Feb 18, 2021 17:14:09 GMT -6
I mean, to be fair, when I listen to a drum kit, I don't stick my ear right next to the rack tom and enjoy that lovely, organic 120 dB cymbal wash. Mixing is an illusion. You want some sort of presentation of the drums coming out of two speakers. It takes various levels of trickery (depending on what you're going for) to make that happen. Gating doesn't have to mean making things sound artificial. Sometimes gross bleed makes the drums sound less natural and gating something makes it sound more natural. Totally context dependent.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 18, 2021 17:23:41 GMT -6
Ah, maybe a little prosaic , but I jus use em to keep the livestock in the pasture: keeps the paths really clean !
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Post by wiz on Feb 18, 2021 17:33:24 GMT -6
I sometimes use MR GATE from wave arts, on something like an acoustic guitar chunky rhythm part, set it just right and it sort of tightens the rhythm,,..... that's one use I can think of. Cheers Wiz Ok, so what would be gated here? I'm not sure the right way to ask that but I guess I'm wondering what signal you're removing and what remains. Like Bill mentioned... you essentially change the envelope of the sound, shorten its decay. Imagine it like this... you are playing a palm muted 1/8 note chuggy rhyme on acoustic guitar... so each chug lasts to the next 1/8 note hit. You set the threshold and release time of the gate, so that it cuts off half of the 1/8 note chug, essentially making the chug last half as long, a 1/16th note... and now what's between the end of the chug, and the next chug... is digital black, perfect silence... the most expensive sounding thing in audio... complete contrast. This is more a theoretical example than an actual, but its close to real world. It can make the part seem really tight. Its a little tricky to set, and that's why I would use MRGATE as it has an envelope display...and is easy to get this effect. This can work really well on bass as well, as it can tighten sloppy-ish tails of notes and make it sound like a better player... Hope that helps bud Cheers Wiz
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Post by wiz on Feb 18, 2021 17:33:53 GMT -6
wiz - Totally unrelated but nice dobro (I think) on Save Me From Me... really thick sound to my ears, nice job. Thanks yes, wooden body resonator
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2021 17:34:13 GMT -6
Slight clickbait topic, I'll admit it. But I'm only half joking. People seem to love talking about how great this or that gate is (in a thread on this forum talking about the PA 9000J plug, this comes up). I see it a lot. What am I missing? I can see how gates were really important when using long analog signal chains with high noise floors, but if I'm on a fairly clean path... is there really a use? The only thing I can think of is "special" effects on drums and things. I'm a pretty straightforward guy in my recording style (less is more because the less I do the less I can mess up) but I'm also always on the lookout for stuff I'm missing. So what am I missing? I always assumed they were invented to make drum sets not sound like one instrument. Haha... exactly.
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Post by wiz on Feb 18, 2021 17:34:36 GMT -6
Slight clickbait topic, I'll admit it. But I'm only half joking. People seem to love talking about how great this or that gate is (in a thread on this forum talking about the PA 9000J plug, this comes up). I see it a lot. What am I missing? I can see how gates were really important when using long analog signal chains with high noise floors, but if I'm on a fairly clean path... is there really a use? The only thing I can think of is "special" effects on drums and things. I'm a pretty straightforward guy in my recording style (less is more because the less I do the less I can mess up) but I'm also always on the lookout for stuff I'm missing. So what am I missing? I always assumed they were invented to make drum sets not sound like one instrument. Ba dum tish!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2021 17:34:58 GMT -6
Ah, maybe a little prosaic , but I jus use em to keep the livestock in the pasture: keeps the paths really clean !
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2021 17:38:00 GMT -6
Ok, so what would be gated here? I'm not sure the right way to ask that but I guess I'm wondering what signal you're removing and what remains. Like Bill mentioned... you essentially change the envelope of the sound, shorten its decay. Imagine it like this... you are playing a palm muted 1/8 note chuggy rhyme on acoustic guitar... so each chug lasts to the next 1/8 note hit. You set the threshold and release time of the gate, so that it cuts off half of the 1/8 note chug, essentially making the chug last half as long, a 1/16th note... and now what's between the end of the chug, and the next chug... is digital black, perfect silence... the most expensive sounding thing in audio... complete contrast. This is more a theoretical example than an actual, but its close to real world. It can make the part seem really tight. Its a little tricky to set, and that's why I would use MRGATE as it has an envelope display...and is easy to get this effect. This can work really well on bass as well, as it can tighten sloppy-ish tails of notes and make it sound like a better player... Hope that helps bud Cheers Wiz Ok ok... jokes aside, this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Recently I was trying to pull of a sort of Strokes-style octave move on the guitar. All downbeats, very cliche 2000's NYC type thing but it was right for the song. I ditched the part because I couldn't get the performance clean enough on the changes, a technique like you just described might have been just what I needed. Great tip!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 18, 2021 17:49:57 GMT -6
Primary purpose was for live sound right? So when the singer steps away, the band isn't blasting through their mic.
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Post by plinker on Feb 18, 2021 17:56:56 GMT -6
I always assumed they were invented to make drum sets not sound like one instrument.
OH SHIT!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2021 17:57:02 GMT -6
Gates are for killing noise, killing detail, killing drums, and killing performances. Use sparingly and preferably not at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2021 18:03:04 GMT -6
certainly not always useful, but very helpful on drums in dense productions. i'd imagine most folks can appreciate a top snare mic gated with a key input from the top mic, even if you're not mixing a metal record. if you're just using Glyn Johns technique or something similar, yeah, i can't imagine having much use for one there. but they are often useful for handling/ambient noise on vocal tracks or other things. you can certainly do a lot of this manually in your DAW, but sometimes a gate is just easier Even in metal, gates are basically like over miced drums: for easy sample replacement and cut n paste trickery. Why even play the drums at that point? Just fake it all. Most of these guys can’t play their own shit. I favor two good overheads, one mic per kick, snare, and a room mic. The toms will come up in the overheads. If they can play. Sometimes I have to crank the overheads or mic the toms with whatever. Editing toms sucks but nuking the room to get the image back is always fun.
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