ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Feb 18, 2021 21:59:16 GMT -6
Welcome to RGO, if your going to go down the control Surface rabbit while you want something with EUCon. The whole Logic Control / HUI thing is so limiting. Yeah it means AVID but trust me once you play with Eucon you won’t go back.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2021 22:27:48 GMT -6
Welcome to RGO, if your going to go down the control Surface rabbit while you want something with EUCon. The whole Logic Control / HUI thing is so limiting. Yeah it means AVID but trust me once you play with Eucon you won’t go back. I have zero personal experience with this, but I've heard pretty widely that Eucon is not very friendly to Apple devices. There's a lot of appeal to the enhanced protocol but I HATE tinkering, especially with technology. Anything that might crash is immediately struck from my list. Again... no personal experience, I'm going based on "forum knowledge" which, let's face it, is often an oxymoron especially on (ahem) certain forums.
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Post by skav on Feb 19, 2021 1:28:14 GMT -6
I upgrades a FP1 to FP16. Was about to write a long text about my experience, but: First owned FP1 then FP16. Ended up selling them all because the console type workflow were more of a hinderance than a enhancer to me. I work much more effectively and efficiently with a keyboard and mouse and a daw. Probably because that's where I first learned. Hope this helps. I use a 32 channel/64 input Soundcraft console.
I find keyboard and mouse to be unuseable.
I presume you learnt before the days of keyboard and mouse, right?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2021 3:31:18 GMT -6
skav I did same and sold my console:) I found the controller efficiency a bit of an illusion as I was still teaching out and touching and manipulating things: one thing I do miss is transport control, love the buttons, and the sort of micro setting on the faders, but now I just expand the vertical scale on my track and use my mouse on the volume line, as fine an increment as I want.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 19, 2021 14:33:43 GMT -6
I use a 32 channel/64 input Soundcraft console.
I find keyboard and mouse to be unuseable.
Mine's bigger. Cool! If mine was bigger I'd need a bigger house.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 19, 2021 14:35:59 GMT -6
I use a 32 channel/64 input Soundcraft console.
I find keyboard and mouse to be unuseable.
I presume you learnt before the days of keyboard and mouse, right? Yes. Back when "user interfaces" were easily understandable by anyone with any real experience with any console.
BTW, the mouse is possibly THE WORST device ever conceived of for manipulating control "knobs" on a screen.
Since I started developing tremors in my right hand it has become utterly impossible to do fine (or not-so fine) adjustment with a mouse. It simply doesn't work. I have no difficulty AT ALL with real knobs or faders.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 19, 2021 18:37:31 GMT -6
I presume you learnt before the days of keyboard and mouse, right? Yes. Back when "user interfaces" were easily understandable by anyone with any real experience with any console.
BTW, the mouse is possibly THE WORST device ever conceived of for manipulating control "knobs" on a screen.
Since I started developing tremors in my right hand it has become utterly impossible to do fine (or not-so fine) adjustment with a mouse. It simply doesn't work. I have no difficulty AT ALL with real knobs or faders.
I don't know how much you are using the mouse with your current setup, but have ever looked at something like this? Pretty pricey but it can be programmed in some very clever ways. www.nobcontrol.com/#top-section
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 20, 2021 17:41:04 GMT -6
Yes. Back when "user interfaces" were easily understandable by anyone with any real experience with any console.
BTW, the mouse is possibly THE WORST device ever conceived of for manipulating control "knobs" on a screen.
Since I started developing tremors in my right hand it has become utterly impossible to do fine (or not-so fine) adjustment with a mouse. It simply doesn't work. I have no difficulty AT ALL with real knobs or faders.
I don't know how much you are using the mouse with your current setup, but have ever looked at something like this? Pretty pricey but it can be programmed in some very clever ways. www.nobcontrol.com/#top-sectionLooks vaguely interesting, but no. How much is it? They don't bother giving a price.
I don't use a mouse with my current setup - my right hand shakes whenever I attempt to do anything precise. I often have to switch to my left when doing average routine moves, like on a forum.. Consequently I don't use a mouse - or a computer screen to mix. I use a console. I have no trouble at all with knobs and faders.
If something MUST be done onscreen I usually have my music partner/co-engineer to do it.
Old age is a bitch.
OTOH, I hated the mouse from the beginning - unfortunately I hated the control surface I wasted a couple thousand on just as much because it never worked as advertised.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 21, 2021 10:51:01 GMT -6
I don't know how much you are using the mouse with your current setup, but have ever looked at something like this? Pretty pricey but it can be programmed in some very clever ways. www.nobcontrol.com/#top-sectionLooks vaguely interesting, but no. How much is it? They don't bother giving a price.
I don't use a mouse with my current setup - my right hand shakes whenever I attempt to do anything precise. I often have to switch to my left when doing average routine moves, like on a forum.. Consequently I don't use a mouse - or a computer screen to mix. I use a console. I have no trouble at all with knobs and faders.
If something MUST be done onscreen I usually have my music partner/co-engineer to do it.
Old age is a bitch.
OTOH, I hated the mouse from the beginning - unfortunately I hated the control surface I wasted a couple thousand on just as much because it never worked as advertised.
It’s expensive, like $230 or so. Mine should arrive in a week or so. I’ll post thoughts when it does. The idea is that you could hover your mouse over something on the screen and then use the knob to adjust with the same motion as turning the pan pot on your console. Who knows? Could be valuable way to use tools that are currently too cumbersome with a shaky hand. Or it could be a waste of effort since you’ve already got an effective system in place!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 21, 2021 14:06:12 GMT -6
Ok, first impressions of the FP16 for any who are interested. I'll start with the negative and then finish on positive notes (which I believe are D, F# and A).
The Bad
1) When losing the compact FP1 you really do lose something, I don't know, ergonomic? 2) Punching all the buttons on the FP1 and zipping around channels makes me feel like I'm working faster than I am. Lots of zipping and, well, punching. 3) Going from channel to channel on the encoder dial of the FP1 is nice, I can only bank channels on the dial with the FP16 and have to select channels to switch with the select button. I'd like to do either. 4) For most plugins the plugin editor is too difficult to use due to dozens of parameters that are hard to decipher on scribble strip. (I expected this)
The Good
1) Scribble strips easier to read than reviewers said, no problem at all. 2) I like having all the faders close together as opposed to many of the 8 channel controllers such as Avid Artist or new SSL UF8. 3) Some plugins are awesome on the plugin editor, in particular the Trident EQ (makes sense, it models faders). And the plugin editor is helpful when I'm just tweaking one parameter to taste as in the case of a threshold control for a stereo bus compression.
The... Overall?
Overall I think it's doing what I hoped it would. For example, I went back to a mix I was struggling with, set an alternative mix in Logic and dropped all the faders down. Then I started pulling things up and mixing into my busses in groups of three channels at a time and, very quickly, came up with something way better than what I had. This type of workflow is annoying with a mouse but fun with the FP16 (and fast).
Also, while I don't FEEL like I'm working faster because I'm clicking less, I think I actually am working faster. Tough crowd right? "I want fewer mouse clicks and fewer buttons." "Ok, now I feel like I'm not doing anything, I want to click more buttons."
Can't win. Haha.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 21, 2021 14:08:19 GMT -6
Oh yeah, one more thing.
Midway through my remix my 11 year old daughter walked into the room and said "wow, that looks really fun... can you show me how to use it?" So, worth every penny!
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 21, 2021 14:13:58 GMT -6
Ok, first impressions of the FP16 for any who are interested. I'll start with the negative and then finish on positive notes (which I believe are D, F# and A). The Bad 1) When losing the compact FP1 you really do lose something, I don't know, ergonomic? 2) Punching all the buttons on the FP1 and zipping around channels makes me feel like I'm working faster than I am. Lots of zipping and, well, punching. 3) Going from channel to channel on the encoder dial of the FP1 is nice, I can only bank channels on the dial with the FP16 and have to select channels to switch with the select button. I'd like to do either. 4) For most plugins the plugin editor is too difficult to use due to dozens of parameters that are hard to decipher on scribble strip. (I expected this) The Good 1) Scribble strips easier to read than reviewers said, no problem at all. 2) I like having all the faders close together as opposed to many of the 8 channel controllers such as Avid Artist or new SSL UF8. 3) Some plugins are awesome on the plugin editor, in particular the Trident EQ (makes sense, it models faders). And the plugin editor is helpful when I'm just tweaking one parameter to taste as in the case of a threshold control for a stereo bus compression. The... Overall? Overall I think it's doing what I hoped it would. For example, I went back to a mix I was struggling with, set an alternative mix in Logic and dropped all the faders down. Then I started pulling things up and mixing into my busses in groups of three channels at a time and, very quickly, came up with something way better than what I had. This type of workflow is annoying with a mouse but fun with the FP16 (and fast). Also, while I don't FEEL like I'm working faster because I'm clicking less, I think I actually am working faster. Tough crowd right? "I want fewer mouse clicks and fewer buttons." "Ok, now I feel like I'm not doing anything, I want to click more buttons." Can't win. Haha. This is great info. Please keep reporting as you use it more!
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 21, 2021 18:42:22 GMT -6
Sounds like an auspicious start, the more you use it, the more muscle memory you will develop and your efficiency well only increase: sounds like it’s working for you so far!
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 21, 2021 18:46:34 GMT -6
Ps I didn’t understand your first 3?
In any group of 16, if you touch the fader, it’s supposed to localize to that channel, so as long as you know where you are in your session: it’s golden, the banking bottom, I think can be set for 8 or 16, again you just have to know where you are?
That is indicated in Scribble strip and the current channel you are touching will be highlighted in your daw ?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 21, 2021 22:02:40 GMT -6
Ps I didn’t understand your first 3? In any group of 16, if you touch the fader, it’s supposed to localize to that channel, so as long as you know where you are in your session: it’s golden, the banking bottom, I think can be set for 8 or 16, again you just have to know where you are? That is indicated in Scribble strip and the current channel you are touching will be highlighted in your daw ? So with the single channel Faderport, you can use the rotary encoder to select channels in the DAW one at a time. Twist a click to the right, move from track 5 to 6 or whatever. In the FP16, that encoder just banks channels, it doesn't change which one is selected in the DAW. This doesn't apply for fader moves, for that what you do is just grab a fader and move as you should. But it prevents me from doing on of my favorite workflows with the FP1. What I USED to be able to do was to set up two or three plugins, "multilink" them in Logic, and then move across my channels one tick at a time with the plugins switching along with the channel. I can still do that by hitting the channel select button up near the scribble strip, but as far as I can tell the rotary encoder can't move me one track at a time like with the smaller unit.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 22, 2021 4:16:45 GMT -6
Understood, I thought there were 3 assignable functions somewhere not certain it applies to the rotary ?
Seems odd that the rotary doesn’t move you left or right, have you confirmed that in the manual??
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 22, 2021 10:28:17 GMT -6
Understood, I thought there were 3 assignable functions somewhere not certain it applies to the rotary ? Seems odd that the rotary doesn’t move you left or right, have you confirmed that in the manual?? It is odd, right? It moves the bank left to right either one track at a time or in banks of 8, but it doesn't change the selected track. The manual is vague on the subject (I read it ahead of time and didn't put 2+2 together) but it appears this is functioning as designed. Good point on the assignable functions though... shouldn't be too hard to map Logic's left/right channel selection to two assignable buttons. I'll try that tonight. Couple of other quirks though... For some reason the automation buttons work but don't highlight? So when I click Latch, it "latches" the track but the Latch button doesn't illuminate. Very odd. Worked on the FP1. Doesn't bother me at all, I usually select this with a mouse anyway, but still kind of weird.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 22, 2021 11:06:17 GMT -6
I saw reference to the rotary being multifunction but maybe that’s just in studio 1?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 22, 2021 11:31:13 GMT -6
I saw reference to the rotary being multifunction but maybe that’s just in studio 1? Correct. In Studio One the rotary controls whatever the mouse hovers over. Cool feature but Studio One is a jumble to me. I don't know, maybe it's just me but I can't decipher it.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 22, 2021 14:25:23 GMT -6
I hear you. I tried S1 a while back: gave up: just focussed on logic.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 23, 2021 23:43:26 GMT -6
Well, well, well... I have come down from the mountain and I am CONVERTED!!!
Studio One is amazing with the FP16. Basically, it does everything I want it to do and now that I've spent some time fiddling with S1, I actually like it quite a bit. I haven't done any real mixes yet but this thing works so well with the FP16 that I simply have to figure it out. The scribble strips become insanely useful, the plugin control is just fantastic, even the select buttons color code to match the coloring of the channel.
Speaking of which, it's really nice to be able to color an entire channel strip. I'm getting so tired of everything being gray.
I gotta say, I may become one of these "record in Logic for the better midi and efficient CPU usage, mix in Studio One for the workflow" people. The combo of hardware and software is that good.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 27, 2021 8:01:31 GMT -6
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