|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 31, 2021 17:52:27 GMT -6
None really got me. B was my preference, C had more transparency and almost had me, but was harsher. D was good, but bland. So if I gotta choose, I'll take B.
|
|
|
Post by zonkola on Jan 31, 2021 17:57:28 GMT -6
Boom! That's 20, so now for the reveal:
I'll start by saying that—other than entertaining y'all and hopefully providing a useful comparison that helps improve a mic collection or two—a primary goal for this shootout was to get to a place where I'd feel good about jettisoning my Neumann KM184s. I hear the strident highs these mics have on certain sources, and it's the mic that a lot of knowledgeable folks love to hate.
Well, that mission was NOT accomplished. My personal favorite in this test, and coming in second place overall in the poll, was...
Mic A = Neumann KM184, Cardioid SDC, $799
I think it's the midrange that works for me on this guitar. In particular, the single note runs just have a bit more presence and weight, and the slightly brittle highs don't bother me on this source.
|
|
|
Post by zonkola on Jan 31, 2021 18:07:57 GMT -6
Mic B wasn't bad on this source, but to my ears perhaps a bit boomy and scooped compared to Mic A. A high pass filter and some mild EQ might be all it needs.
That said, Mic B later turned out to be a better choice for drum overheads than the C12-ish clones I'd been using. The low end and scoop I didn't like for acoustic guitar gave the drums more bottom end and less boxiness—I have a pair over the kit now.
Mic B = Soyuz 013 FET, Cardioid SDC, $599
|
|
|
Post by zonkola on Jan 31, 2021 18:14:59 GMT -6
While Mic C was brighter than I'd usually want to go on this guitar, I understand the appeal. In a dense mix, this might be the one mic that stands out the most.
This mic was also the only non-SDC, non-cardioid mic in the test, and by far the most inexpensive. Mic C fans, I give you...
Mic C = Beyerdynamic M 201 TG, Hypercardioid dynamic, $299
|
|
|
Post by zonkola on Jan 31, 2021 18:27:08 GMT -6
Finally, Mic D—a mic I don't see in shootouts very often. To my taste, this mic was a close second to Mic A. And according to the poll, it was the top choice of the group by a significant margin.
Introducing the winner of this shootout, and perhaps a future addition to your rogues' gallery of mics:
Mic D = Telefunken M60 FET, Cardioid SDC, $595
|
|
|
Post by tkaitkai on Jan 31, 2021 18:30:13 GMT -6
zonkolaVery cool, thanks for putting this together! This is like the third or fourth shootout where I've picked a 013 for acoustic guitars... I think my ears gravitate toward that sound for some reason.
|
|
|
Post by zonkola on Jan 31, 2021 18:37:40 GMT -6
zonkola Very cool, thanks for putting this together! This is like the third or fourth shootout where I've picked a 013 for acoustic guitars... I think my ears gravitate toward that sound for some reason. Well, I guess you know what you need to do.
|
|
|
Post by zonkola on Jan 31, 2021 18:42:54 GMT -6
Incidentally, there was one additional mic I purchased for this test: The Neumann KM A body with cardioid KK 184 capsule.
This combo is billed as a modular version of the KM184, but I had read in a few places that the KM A has more modern electronics and therefore sounds smoother than the KM184. While Neumann engineers acknowledge that the electronics have been updated, they have reportedly denied that there's any appreciable difference in sound.
In my tests on acoustic guitar I didn't hear any real difference between the KM A/KK 184 combo and the KM184, so I sent it back and didn't add it to the shootout. So I guess I'm Team Neumann Engineers on this one.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Jan 31, 2021 18:43:28 GMT -6
Cool on the Soyuz. I have a pair of 013 FETs and really enjoy them! I picked B as my fav.
Cool test!
|
|
|
Post by geoff738 on Jan 31, 2021 18:58:28 GMT -6
I chose the 184 fwiw.
Thanks for doing this. The 201 surprised me. It didn’t come first for me, but it didn’t come last either.
Cheers, Geoff
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jan 31, 2021 19:14:34 GMT -6
Interesting!
C being hypercard, there's the thinner sound that comes with. It seemed to bring out the most metallic string noise.
B hmm, I'm not getting boom or scoop at all on it's own, maybe in comparison to A though. It's most like the MKH sound of any of these, at least in the transition from bottom to top, seems flat flat flat.
A whadya know? Works for this guitar. I can see that being the famous Neumann mid-centric thing going on.
Bummer I still picked the more expensive 2.....
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jan 31, 2021 19:15:14 GMT -6
Finally, Mic D—a mic I don't see in shootouts very often. To my taste, this mic was a close second to Mic A. And according to the poll, it was the top choice of the group by a significant margin. Introducing the winner of this shootout, and perhaps a future addition to your rogues' gallery of mics: Mic D = Telefunken M60 FET, Cardioid SDC, $595Makes total sense now. Satisfying to read that my ers are still consistent with what i would have seen. The 201 is a very useful dynamic as well! Thanks for doing this.
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Jan 31, 2021 19:32:07 GMT -6
Now I'm embarrassed. It must be that your playing is that good, or the mahogany makes a huge difference, because I generally fucking HATE Taylor guitars. Your is one of 2 I've heard that I was drawn to. A friend I used to work with at a music store got a deal on a used early Taylor that reminded me of a J45, and his was literally the only one until now that I've thought, "ooo, that's nice." I usually just get offended knowing what they charge for those things compared to how they sound. [/rant] drumsound When I bought this guitar about 5 years ago I wasn't in the market for a Taylor, having just sold one a few years before. In fact, I didn't have any brand in mind—I was just looking for a small body guitar that spoke to me. I must have played close to a hundred different guitars in the under $3K range over a few months at Guitar Showcase, Gelb Music, and Frank Ford's Gryphon Stringed Instruments, and this is the one I took home. To me it sounded very different from the regular spruce top Taylors, but also very different from my J45. So yeah, I was ready to blow $3K on a used Collings or a nice Martin, and I ended up with a $1,200 coffee brown Taylor with that ugly headstock. Didn't see that coming. You found a good one! Mahogany acoustics are very cool. At the same store I worked at we sold a few of the Martin mahagany guitars, I liked the sound of each of them.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Jan 31, 2021 20:33:28 GMT -6
Finally, Mic D—a mic I don't see in shootouts very often. To my taste, this mic was a close second to Mic A. And according to the poll, it was the top choice of the group by a significant margin. Introducing the winner of this shootout, and perhaps a future addition to your rogues' gallery of mics: Mic D = Telefunken M60 FET, Cardioid SDC, $595This made me happy. I’ve been itching to hear more samples from this mic for a while.
|
|
|
Post by kaleida on Feb 1, 2021 2:21:14 GMT -6
My ranking: D, A, B, C. The M60 had a very natural, smooth, flattering sound that seems like it would be perfect in a minimal arrangement and malleable enough for any context. The KM184 had great articulation and clarity - generally what I’d go for in a denser mix. I felt the 013 was comparable to the M60, but just a hair muddier and less natural sounding. What was C again? Oh right the M201! Makes sense that it would be the dullest of the bunch. One of my favorites on snare, but I always have to crank the high end to get it to cut through. I haven’t tried it on much else, so that’s a welcome and surprising inclusion - even if just for reference. Great shootout on all counts! Thank you!
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Feb 1, 2021 8:41:01 GMT -6
I liked A and D. Then when I saw the results, it's good I favor the KM184 blind because that's a mic I loved to own. Now the Telefunken is suddenly on my radar, too, thanks a lot LOL.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Feb 1, 2021 9:11:31 GMT -6
I thought B was the most flattering on this guitar. A had too much low mid peaking but a nice clear top end. C had a boomy and veiled low mid with a slightly honky upper mid to me. D just sounded dull all around compared to the others.
I'd work with any of them though. Acoustic is one of those things that is mostly covered up by vocals in a mix so you'd never hear any of these issues in a full mix.
One thing I know, since I use KM184's on acoustic, is that they're finicky about placement and distance. The jumping frequencies I heard in track A would be fixed by moving the mics ever so slightly.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Feb 1, 2021 10:38:34 GMT -6
I thought B was the most flattering on this guitar. A had too much low mid peaking but a nice clear top end. C had a boomy and veiled low mid with a slightly honky upper mid to me. D just sounded dull all around compared to the others. Yep that's closest overall to my experience.
|
|
|
Post by skav on Feb 1, 2021 10:50:07 GMT -6
I picked the Neumann. I WIN!
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 1, 2021 12:08:31 GMT -6
D for me. Seems to be the most balanced.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Feb 1, 2021 12:15:10 GMT -6
I picked the Neumann. I WIN! <ahem> you picked the Sennheiser. LOL (I'm sorry, I'll shut up now)
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Feb 1, 2021 12:40:47 GMT -6
I'll take a Sennheiser MKH over any of'em, any day!
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Feb 1, 2021 12:46:36 GMT -6
I'll take a Sennheiser MKH over any of'em, any day! Do tell, please.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Feb 1, 2021 14:33:37 GMT -6
I'll take a Sennheiser MKH over any of'em, any day! Somewhere in storage, I have a pair of very old Sennheiser MKH104s, T powered versions. They sound amazing.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Feb 1, 2021 18:54:01 GMT -6
I'll take a Sennheiser MKH over any of'em, any day! Somewhere in storage, I have a pair of very old Sennheiser MKH104s, T powered versions. They sound amazing. I have 105's the next gen, awesome omni's as are the 20's. The earlier 3 digit gen all have some treble boost as expected for diffuse field work, the 2 digit types are mostly pretty dang flat. Seems like the cardioid 40 is the one I use the least, but love to hear it next to the Soyuz 013 FET for comparison. Lately I've used MKH20 and Neumann KM131 omni's on guitars the most, and the KM131 has a similar mid thing to the KM184 here, seems to be the Neumann SDC thing.
|
|