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Post by drbill on Dec 9, 2022 9:03:36 GMT -6
Of interest to the conversation I think : One should seek out and listen to the comparison clips of the Burl Vancouver clips -- 32 channel wide Vancouver sum vs. 2 channel Burl Vancouver sum vs. 2 Bus box (Silver Bullet in this case). The observations of many listening were quite illuminating. I had (have) already come to my own conclusions long before those clips were posted (other site) but my ultimate conclusions - all summing boxes are NOT created equal, and "OTB summing" is not magic. As Matt has mentioned, a lot of it depends on the makeup gain. Something like Jeffs Sumbuss brings a lot to the table. Other boxes - not so much. For me, ITB summing with outboard on the 2 buss and hardware inserts is where it's at. Just wading in late on this very interesting thread. Dr Bill does this comment mean that you like to send digital tracks out to analog and then back to digital for final summing in digital before finally sending you your stereo mix out to analog processing before final printing?
I have this as a signal flow option now but am trying to decide if using this approach with the extra stage of DA/AD before it all gets summed together is of a concern or not. The other option for me is to only send tracks to analog summing (24 channels) and never go back to digital before 2bus processing. The downside to this signal flow is that I don’t get to do volume automation for any channel or group post all analog processing but it does save one round of DA/AD. I’ve done some tests but I’m not sure I’ve arrived at a conclusive view. What do you all think about this? Yes. That's my workflow in a simple nutshell. But multiple times on the I/o inserts. And usually multiple times on the 2 Bus as well. If you've got any sort of modern AD/DA I wouldn't worry too much about adding additional rounds of conversion. IME, it's not a big deal. The benefit far outweighs any degradation, and in fact, "degradation" is often what we are looking for. Something to take the brittle transparency off of digital. |
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Post by paulnajar on Dec 9, 2022 16:59:52 GMT -6
Just wading in late on this very interesting thread. Dr Bill does this comment mean that you like to send digital tracks out to analog and then back to digital for final summing in digital before finally sending you your stereo mix out to analog processing before final printing?
Yes. That's my workflow in a simple nutshell. But multiple times on the I/o inserts. And usually multiple times on the 2 Bus as well. If you've got any sort of modern AD/DA I wouldn't worry too much about adding additional rounds of conversion. IME, it's not a big deal. The benefit far outweighs any degradation, and in fact, "degradation" is often what we are looking for. Something to take the brittle transparency off of digital. Awesome thank you! yes the converters in my 3 x Cranborne Audio Adat racks are definitely good sounding and another loop through them does not seem to do very much of anything to the sound as far as I’ve noticed. Using the modules as inserts completely removes any use of the rack’s built in summing mixer but as has been widely agreed the summing itself does very little to the sound. The other benefit of working this way (analog inserts) is that you can have the insert plugin anywhere in your plugin chain depending on what you’re sending out through. Kind regards |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 31, 2023 16:24:49 GMT -6
I ended up getting more elaborate than expected and am enjoying the Pyra-Sum and process of setup. A+B are my music bus and sum to Pueblo JR preamps, Buzz Audio DBC-M, Coil 70s and a B32. C is my vocal bus and sums to Pueblo JRs and Buzz Audio SOC-M Bricasti M7 is sent direct to Mix Bus Mix Bus is summed to Pueblo Audio JR and Bettermaker Mastering Limiter to Aurora(n) Sounds pretty awesome! Eric's such a brilliant guy. Had I not the hybrid setup I have now I would be all over the Pyra-Sum. Please update as you progress with it. Ordered a generic panel Pyra-Sum after a lot of thought on how to use both the Chandler Mini Mixer and the CAPI SumBus together. Also going to ditch the Flock patchbays and replace them with the Redco's I already have. Being able to send different sources through the summers into the direct-to-bus inputs of the Pyra-Sum and even multing a mix to both for comparison will be cool. I've got two output cards in the SumBus so I'll hook both up as well. I think that'll be incredibly musical and inspiring, plus having loads of parallel processing available will be killer. Not sure what I'll do yet with the makeup gain choices but leaning towards what Eric's doing the UTA pres. Preparing for a move this summer so won't be putting anything back in action until fall, but plenty of planning time. All my shit's boxed up for now. Ordered the Pyra-Sum though. Not sure the lead times. |
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