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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 12, 2021 11:03:35 GMT -6
Mixing while tracking is a recipe for chasing rabbits. I got into an argument with one of my professors at Berklee about this. We were working on a project that took several weeks. Week one, drums, week two, bass, etc....every week he was telling me to mix my drums. I was like, but I don’t know what the finished track is gonna sound like. I can only mix a complete project. That being said, I think balancing and adjusting your tracks as you go to make room for the new stuff is helpful and important. Online or are you in my neck of the woods? |
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Post by monkeyxx on Jan 12, 2021 12:04:07 GMT -6
My mixing skills far outpace my producer skills. I'm still learning how to be a "one man band," it's a constant work in progress. I can make just about anything sound good, I just have trouble nailing the parts, choosing the layers, and so on. More often than not, my arrangements end up being super minimal. When I try to stack too much, it becomes a wall, but not a good wall. I guess there is some fine art in balancing a wall, and I have done it before. I'd just rather not be presented with a wall when I sit to mix.
There's a giant thread on the "other" site I started about this, I believe the main issue one person will have is timing/rhythm, with overdubs.
I just find the performance/production part of it much more challenging than the audio part, which I am very comfortable with by now, and enjoy a lot.
Think I have finally reached the limit of what I can do, I am planning to hire an engineer to track drums with me. It's literally too much work for one person.
If anyone wants to see what I could offer with a mix, sure, I can mix one song for free. Like other people have offered. I'm sure there are a lot of really talented mixers in this thread already by now.
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Post by donr on Jan 12, 2021 12:13:46 GMT -6
Mixing while tracking is a recipe for chasing rabbits. The worst is when the rhythm track takes are good performances but the recordings are so bad that you're sent them to mix for punch ins at a different studio or at home. Then you have to mix in those... UGH! Mix while tracking only in the sense that at the end of every session, the quick board balance should sound really good. If it doesn't, it makes no sense to pile on more tracks. It won't fix what's wrong today. That goes for basics, and every overdub. |
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Post by svart on Jan 12, 2021 12:23:02 GMT -6
Mixing while tracking is a recipe for chasing rabbits. I got into an argument with one of my professors at Berklee about this. We were working on a project that took several weeks. Week one, drums, week two, bass, etc....every week he was telling me to mix my drums. I was like, but I don’t know what the finished track is gonna sound like. I can only mix a complete project. That being said, I think balancing and adjusting your tracks as you go to make room for the new stuff is helpful and important. I understand why someone would want to pre-mix something, but figuring out tones and such is what pre-production is for, or using DIs and such to make choices later. I've been in studios where the engineer wants to stop and "work on the tone" for a while before moving on and it murders any momentum you have going. I've had clients ask me to do some "mixing" before we moved on and there were a few times I obliged only to find out that we ended up wasting time nitpicking tones instead of moving along as well as another time where the client decided to delete everything he had done simply because he worked himself into a bad case of self-doubt about the tones we had figured out originally in pre-pro. Anyway, now I always get a DI of the raw instrument as well as the effects the player uses so that I can change things later when folks inevitably change their minds. |
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Post by svart on Jan 12, 2021 12:24:08 GMT -6
Mixing while tracking is a recipe for chasing rabbits. The worst is when the rhythm track takes are good performances but the recordings are so bad that you're sent them to mix for punch ins at a different studio or at home. Then you have to mix in those... UGH! Always get DIs.. |
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Post by schmalzy on Jan 12, 2021 13:02:09 GMT -6
ALWAYS get DIs.
It's not my preferred way to work - that's to get the right tone right away - but it's a lot better than being stuck with a bad tone.
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Post by ward of the state on Jan 12, 2021 13:09:04 GMT -6
Mixing while tracking is a recipe for chasing rabbits. Can't agree with this. The benefits of mixing whilst tracking: • You get a sense of how things fit together • You can hear if there's anything off in the arrangement • You start to hear which elements of the arrangement will dominate the final mix • You start hearing performances in context and are able to evaluate feel and groove...or vibe. • It's also easier for building headphone mixes for final vocals. I like to do my clean-ups and edits as I go along as well. |
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Post by achase4u on Jan 12, 2021 14:30:46 GMT -6
The first trick for basic mixing is to mix while you track. The “nailing the various basic tracks “ is very different from nailing tracks that work together. As either a mixing AE or a long distance producer trying to explain that the awesome bass track you sent is awesome but just doesn’t fit is a conversation I get really sick of having. The other thing to remember is a great song stands on its own when you strip it down to basics, to often I have gotten sessions where the artist just kept layering tracks to make up for a crappy song. On of the hardest things is to find somebody you know who will be an honest sounding board. Most people you know mean well and are afraid to hurt your feelings, embrace the guy who is honest enough to tell you it sucks. Context is everything. I think that's partly why there is an advantage to recording a band live through a board. You hear everything at once. When I work on my music alone, I have to take a wild guess as to how it will all sound together. Or do a rough demo and adjust my tracking ideas for the next version. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 12, 2021 16:56:01 GMT -6
The rare times I work on my own music and mix, I way over think it. I can mix another persons song in a couple hours and feel good about it and send it along for approval, but my own stuff I’m more tempted to lock it to a grid if it’s to a click, pull out the tuner, do 50 passes of a guitar lick even though the third one was fine...it’s good to hand it off to someone else to finish if you can allow yourself to do it
That's why all ITB is very handy for me.
I stop my work when I feel its enough for the day. I come back later, and I see the picture from a different point again.
With the newer plugs I doubt that I will change this workflow. All the years I never thought about that true total recall gives creative freedom.
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Post by wiz on Jan 12, 2021 17:21:28 GMT -6
Mixing while tracking is a recipe for chasing rabbits. Can't agree with this. The benefits of mixing whilst tracking: • You get a sense of how things fit together • You can hear if there's anything off in the arrangement • You start to hear which elements of the arrangement will dominate the final mix • You start hearing performances in context and are able to evaluate feel and groove...or vibe. • It's also easier for building headphone mixes for final vocals. I like to do my clean-ups and edits as I go along as well. Everyone to their own...but this is where I sit you can listen to a track of mine from the acoustic guitar and vocal on and it’s a finished mix apart from rides and a touch of eq nesting ... cheers Wiz |
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Post by drumsound on Jan 12, 2021 19:31:25 GMT -6
I don't "mix" as I go, but I am a huge believer in tracking toward the mix. As donr said, when you're adding things, with a simple fader blend, the sounds should work together. Making sure things are making sense In Context is a huge part of production and engineering. I'm listening to elements and thinking of how the mix will sound. What type of things I want to do with the blend, what effects I might add, what things might feature at different points in the song. I'm envisioning the mix. There are times when I deliver a mix and the client things "I Love XXX" and I think "I already heard it in my head."
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 12, 2021 19:37:46 GMT -6
Unless you're trying a major pop type recording with lots of moving parts, or this will be a proper single or album release, mixing shouldn't be such a big deal. As you go, and as the song develops, you might have say.. a drum track, (even a click, shaker or Superior Drummer will do), a guitar or a keyboard part for melody, maybe a bass. You should have a decent mix already by the time you add a vocal. Now that you have the basic song, add whatever you like, mandolin, fiddle, piano, lead guitar, BV's, whatever, each part should then be set at a volume that fits in. When tracking, you're hearing a basic mix in the cans, it needs to sound good so you can track with feeling, so, you already have a good basic mix. In general most things have some reverb, so add a little clean verb from a bus to every track to "put them in the same room". UAD's Ocean Way is good for this. Now, on the 2 bus, do what you like to add excitement, your basic mix is already there. Keep the tape plug-in first, the add some compression, EQ maybe, try 2 compressors, each doing just a little bit each. Need more, get a Waves L2, that thing will just about instantly get you near mastered/broadcast levels. If you actually want to release the track, go easy on the L2, or don't use it. Let a mastering engineer, or even an automated service like ARIA master it. My last album was mastered by them for $75. Have a listen, see what you think. I had recorded tons of sessions at home in the late 80's, early 90's, but I got to the next level with help from cowboycoalminer a long time back. He gave me great advice and encouraged me when something sounded good. Listen to him, he knows what to do. He played a lot of parts on Fireflies Collide and The Other Side of Town. soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/sets/squarespace-playlist |
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Post by zonkola on Jan 12, 2021 22:45:17 GMT -6
Lots of great advice in this thread, and I see a mix-off in its not-so-distant future.
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Post by zonkola on Jan 12, 2021 22:51:06 GMT -6
I love the process of mixing and spend far too much time, to my career detriment, thinking and doing it when I should just be writing songs and recording them. But I like it so much, even though I’ll always be an amateur engineer. It’s why I’m here at RGO frankly. Some good advice in this thread. Get some other ears on your songs at the writing and arranging stage before wasting hours polishing a turd. If you really want to sound like commercial recordings, you should probably hire commercial talent. But quirky audio is ok if you understand you’ll never be a pop star. If I can stand to listen to my own stuff, then it’s good enough for me. But when BOC did “The Symbol Remains,” we were smart enough to hire Tom Lord-Alge. Yeah, I think my pop star buy-by-date expired a few decades ago.  I do like the tunes to be quirky—my influences include Fishbone, Vampire Weekend, and Prince—but the audio not so much. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 12, 2021 23:19:53 GMT -6
Lots of great advice in this thread, and I see a mix-off in its not-so-distant future. That could be fun. providing people are willing to provide tracks. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 13, 2021 7:32:37 GMT -6
Admittedly, while I mix my music for my YouTube channel and have mixed small EPs and such for myself and others, I've chosen to let my friend and album orchestrator Jack Walker mix our Christmas Album. There are a few reasons for that. I've been tracking all the lead vocals, most of the background vocals, various solo instruments, etc. COVID forced me back into a day job and there is just no time for me to really concentrate on it and finish everything that needs to be tracked. I started mixing the album in pieces a little here and a little there. It just wasn't working. The mixes were fine, but could be much better. This is also what Jack does for a living. He works at a few professional studios in NY as a tracking and mix engineer, runs his own small home studio, and composes for film and TV. This is what he does. He also trained me to be an engineer, and is the one who gave me opportunities to work in those same professional studios he works in. He knows what I'm going for. So, Jack will do the mixes and then we'll have sessions so we can tweak to taste. Sometimes you need to know your limitations. If I were singing full time like before, then maybe I'd be doing it. I'd have the time to spend a few hours at a time while fresh and have at it. You gotta play with the cards you are dealt. You can't beat yourself up over it. The project is what's important.
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Post by tkaitkai on Jan 13, 2021 11:11:00 GMT -6
Admittedly, while I mix my music for my YouTube channel and have mixed small EPs and such for myself and others, I've chosen to let my friend and album orchestrator Jack Walker mix our Christmas Album. There are a few reasons for that. I've been tracking all the lead vocals, most of the background vocals, various solo instruments, etc. COVID forced me back into a day job and there is just no time for me to really concentrate on it and finish everything that needs to be tracked. I started mixing the album in pieces a little here and a little there. It just wasn't working. The mixes were fine, but could be much better. This is also what Jack does for a living. He works at a few professional studios in NY as a tracking and mix engineer, runs his own small home studio, and composes for film and TV. This is what he does. He also trained me to be an engineer, and is the one who gave me opportunities to work in those same professional studios he works in. He knows what I'm going for. So, Jack will do the mixes and then we'll have sessions so we can tweak to taste. Sometimes you need to know your limitations. If I were singing full time like before, then maybe I'd be doing it. I'd have the time to spend a few hours at a time while fresh and have at it. You gotta play with the cards you are dealt. You can't beat yourself up over it. The project is what's important. Spot on. My approach has always been to do whatever serves the song. If the project is important enough, I would honestly rather hire someone else to do all the recording/mixing/mastering so I can focus on being an artist. I'll always have a role in producing the song, and I always edit/comp/tune all of my own vocals, but apart from that, there are people I've worked with who absolutely run circles around me in terms of mixing. I have a lot of respect and appreciation for that, so I have no qualms about paying them well for it. I can and do mix when necessary, but collaboration is fun, and the whole one-person-show thing gets really isolating after a while. That's just me, though. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 13, 2021 22:19:25 GMT -6
If music paid like it used to, I'd be able to hire engineers and studios anytime.
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Post by jakeboy on Jan 14, 2021 20:39:12 GMT -6
Lol more than 8 tracks and I start getting nervous.....I mix while I track and I commit on the way in. All of my songs are guitar based and I know how to get good guitar tone. I love composing, playing, producing, engineering, mixing, and mastering,...I love it all. The whole process. It is creating music. Recorded music. Such a rush when a bass and drum track mesh perfectly with a broken up rhythm guitar. I love the entire process from stringing up a guitar to ordering the CDs and loading the songs onto streaming services....and everything in between...well, except for album art. I like deciding upon the album cover I want but creating that is always a PITA for me. I suck at graphics. Not my thing. I’d rather have achase4u send me a BGVs clip that is awesome and something I’d never have thought of that just makes a song BETTER...or throwing some percussion on that transforms my rudimentary drumming skills into something cool. |
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I do like the tunes to be quirky—my influences include Fishbone, Vampire Weekend, and Prince—but the audio not so much.
