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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 1, 2021 13:38:22 GMT -6
Still going on today - a bunch of their plugs for $20.
I have to say they don't get much talk because their plugs are older, but they are really good, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 14:29:11 GMT -6
Their best plugs aren’t on sale. The 2445, the E27, and the Lexicon delays (Awful GUIs though), and Infinistrip.
What’s on sale isn’t bad but not really worth more than 20 bucks or Slick EQ really. Nexcellence is a good compliment to Twangstrom. Twin L works as a zero latency limiter but it’s in Infinistrip PreQursor2 is good and analog button doesn’t alias but the slide position gui sucks. The saturation is aliased and boxy but again Analog is clean and it sounds good. MasterQ2 is clean as hell, cleaner than Fabfilter, pretty much Tokyo Dawn clean but the GUI is crappy and high end shelf is not as clean as Fabfilter and Tokyo Dawn. Fetpressor doesn’t sound like shit and click like hell but it doesn’t really work. ClassicQ is an aliased Neve but beats Waves. NobleQ isn’t the worst Pultech but the low end trick doesn’t work on it ConsoleQ is an aliased SSL.
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Post by lpedrum on Jan 1, 2021 14:45:12 GMT -6
I'm a PSP fan. Of the ones on sale for $20 the Nexcellence is well worth it. And this is coming from someone who collects old verb tanks and uses them often. The Nexcellence (modeled after the old Hammond necklace verb) has a color that no other plug in verbs have and matches really well with organ. It's not for everything of course, but when it works it's beautiful. The Old Timer comp was one of the first plug-in comps I owned and I still use it. It sometimes works when other sexier, higher pedigreed plug-ins don't.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 1, 2021 15:43:07 GMT -6
Their best plugs aren’t on sale. The 2445, the E27, and the Lexicon delays (Awful GUIs though), and Infinistrip. What’s on sale isn’t bad but not really worth more than 20 bucks or Slick EQ really. Nexcellence is a good compliment to Twangstrom. Twin L works as a zero latency limiter but it’s in Infinistrip PreQursor2 is good and analog button doesn’t alias but the slide position gui sucks. The saturation is aliased and boxy but again Analog is clean and if sounds good. MasterQ2 is clean as hell, cleaner than Fabfilter, pretty much Tokyo Dawn clean but the GUI is crappy and high end shelf is not as clean as Fabfilter and Tokyo Dawn. The saturation is aliased yet again. Fetpressor doesn’t sound like shit and click like hell but it doesn’t really work. ClassicQ is an aliased Neve but beats Waves. NobleQ isn’t the worst Pultech but the low end trick doesn’t work on it ConsoleQ is an aliased SSL.
Not so fast ....
Do not miss Master Comp and their Saturation Tools in the Mix Pack. They are both wonderful sounding tools.
The PSP Oldtimer sounds fantastic too.
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Post by sean on Jan 1, 2021 15:54:49 GMT -6
I use OldTimer in “Clear” mode all the time. Zero latency, great to just slap on when tracking and sometime it stays on through the mix.
I haven’t really gelled with their other plugins besides 2445, E27, and SpringBox.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 1, 2021 16:07:26 GMT -6
Xenon was my goto Master Limiter for years. Haven’t used it in quite awhile now, but I should pull it back out.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 2, 2021 11:11:15 GMT -6
I really rate the PSP Master Q2. It's a rather analog sounding digital EQ for mix bus, for lack of a better term. Believe it's $20 in the sale. I use it often.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 2, 2021 11:53:55 GMT -6
I really rate the PSP Master Q2. It's a rather analog sounding digital EQ for mix bus, for lack of a better term. Believe it's $20 in the sale. I use it often. I used that as well as the Master Comp on a mix yesterday and it sounded fantastic.
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Post by ragan on Jan 2, 2021 12:22:48 GMT -6
Old Timer is sweet. I still like Vintage Warmer too. I used NobleQ for years and years but the Noise Ash Rule Tec severely dethroned other Pultec DSP for me.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 2, 2021 12:48:54 GMT -6
Glad I finally tried (and bought) RuleTec. It's really something. I tried to use Acustica Purple (Pultec) last night, but my CPU couldn't handle it in the mix I had going on.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 2, 2021 13:41:37 GMT -6
The Ruletec literally rules the ITB Pultec's I think.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 2, 2021 13:55:00 GMT -6
Black Rooster is also pretty nice for the Pultecs, a little cleaner than the RuleTec's big vibe.
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Post by tkaitkai on Jan 2, 2021 15:32:50 GMT -6
Just tried the Rule Tec... you guys weren't kidding. The midrange on this thing is smooth as all get out. Smokes the UAD. Sorry, I know this is a PSP thread. E27 is another excellent EQ plug.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 2, 2021 15:37:28 GMT -6
The UAD is completely uninspiring compared to these, I agree with that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 16:19:46 GMT -6
I really rate the PSP Master Q2. It's a rather analog sounding digital EQ for mix bus, for lack of a better term. Believe it's $20 in the sale. I use it often. Thanks for the recommendation. This is the cleanest minimum phase parametric eq I’ve found for sharp notches. Gui isn’t great but it’s cleaner than ReEQ which is cleaner than Fabfilter. I don’t like the high shelf but I have so many good shelves anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 1:16:21 GMT -6
The analog buttons in MasterQ2 and PreQursor2 do not alias audibly at 44.1khz ClassicQ, NobleQ, and RetroQ are really impressive for year 2009 DSP. They're 2x oversampled at 44.1 and 48 kHz but that still aliases. If you work at 96khz, they're beasts. Twin-L is great for a zero latency limiter for live and tracking use to not blow stuff up. It actually works and isn't super dirty. It's a shame PSP is so adamant on not including any oversampling for many other plugins though. The FETpressor is cool but is more cool than functional.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 3, 2021 8:56:45 GMT -6
Yeah that looks pretty good if those artifacts are down below -100 dB. I probably have more noise than that coming from my microphones / mic pres.
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Post by superwack on Jan 3, 2021 9:50:47 GMT -6
Yeah that looks pretty good if those artifacts are down below -100 dB. I probably have more noise than that coming from my microphones / mic pres. I don’t want to derail this in to an aliasing thread but I’ve always wondered at what level does aliasing matter? I’ve read through the insane GS plugin testing thread and no one really ever answered that question. The only thing I’ve found is Andy (from Cytomic) saying for mastering plugs you might want to keep it under -100 dB. While you’re never (probably) going to hear that the two things that give me pause is let’s say I use a channel strip with -100 aliasing and use that on 50+ tracks - certainly aliasing is going to multiple to where it can be a problem. Likewise what if I send a signal that has been aliased at -100 into a second or third, etc plugin that also aliases at -100, you’re now aliasing the aliasing and that’s going to get messy real quick
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Post by ragan on Jan 3, 2021 10:02:25 GMT -6
Yeah that looks pretty good if those artifacts are down below -100 dB. I probably have more noise than that coming from my microphones / mic pres. I don’t want to derail this in to an aliasing thread but I’ve always wondered at what level does aliasing matter? I’ve read through the insane GS plugin testing thread and no one really ever answered that question. The only thing I’ve found is Andy (from Cytomic) saying for mastering plugs you might want to keep it under -100 dB. While you’re never (probably) going to hear that the two things that give me pause is let’s say I use a channel strip with -100 aliasing and use that on 50+ tracks - certainly aliasing is going to multiple to where it can be a problem. Likewise what if I send a signal that has been aliased at -100 into a second or third, etc plugin that also aliases at -100, you’re now aliasing the aliasing and that’s going to get messy real quick It depends on if you’d like to listen to the music or stare at it in Plugin Doctor. Some people are absolutely religiously dogmatic about aliasing. Which is fine, but that’s a subjective take. These various lines in the sand re: aliasing are often proclaimed and declared as if they’re universal, objective truths. They’re not. My own (totally subjective) take is that what a track sounds like is infinitely more important than what it looks like. Yes the two things are related but not to the extent some of the Plugin Doctor Brigade would have you believe. And I should say, I love wonking out about DSP and the math underneath it as much as the next person. I’m on break from school but I’ve been doing a lot of Fourier analysis work for fun, just to try to increase my gut-level understanding of the math. We didn’t get as far as I wanted in my Signals and Systems class so I’m doing some independent study. It’s awesome stuff (and the backbone of DSP) and I love it. But when I make a record, I, to the exclusion of any other considerations, just want the songs to have the sonic and emotional impact I imagined when I wrote them. Whatever gets me furthest toward that end is what I use. I’m not wonking out about the perils of sampled, discrete-time systems while my head is in that context. Aliasing is one piece of a complex whole when it comes to producing music.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 3, 2021 11:07:20 GMT -6
Yeah that looks pretty good if those artifacts are down below -100 dB. I probably have more noise than that coming from my microphones / mic pres. I don’t want to derail this in to an aliasing thread but I’ve always wondered at what level does aliasing matter? I’ve read through the insane GS plugin testing thread and no one really ever answered that question. The only thing I’ve found is Andy (from Cytomic) saying for mastering plugs you might want to keep it under -100 dB. While you’re never (probably) going to hear that the two things that give me pause is let’s say I use a channel strip with -100 aliasing and use that on 50+ tracks - certainly aliasing is going to multiple to where it can be a problem. Likewise what if I send a signal that has been aliased at -100 into a second or third, etc plugin that also aliases at -100, you’re now aliasing the aliasing and that’s going to get messy real quick I don't think -100 dB noise floor is bad at all for a channel. Especially in rock/pop music. Maybe for mixing a classical music track with no compression you would want some signal down near that floor to be listenable. Someone just told me about Friis formulas for cascaded series amplifier noise. It's a small part of the puzzle, maybe, for channel SNR but I'm not an expert in audio math. I don't know any summing formulas. I would just assume that digital summing is quieter than analog summing, but I haven't looked into it. If Dan says Q2 is good, as someone that's very aware of these sort of factors, I would assume it would not be a practical problem in a real mix. I agree with Ragan that all goes out the window in the heat of an artistic process. I think what most people do is evaluate their tools in off-time, and then just use the "chosen" tools for any given project, just relying on their previous tests and study. Or you could just get on with it and deal with the noise if it ever comes up in a mix. I don't think I have ever rejected a plugin due to aliasing noise, at least not consciously, although it's possible that I don't use some EQ's because of wonky sounding "math." But I might also use a bit crusher to create a pleasant amount of "bad audio" as needed, so it's subjective. In the Dan Worrall video about aliasing and sample rate, I actually preferred the "worse" plugin, the Reaper ReaEQ over the FabFilter Pro Q3. I liked the "cramped" high end, subjectively. The Q3 would have been "de-cramped."
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Post by superwack on Jan 3, 2021 11:11:55 GMT -6
Thanks Ragan. I’ve gone around and around from “nothing must alias!” to not caring at all and have settled in the middle. There are definitely “bad plugins” that I wouldn’t hesitate to use on a track or two and great testing plugins I wouldn’t want to use on anything I do run things through Plugin Doctor sometimes but at very realistic real world levels like -18 not 0 dBFS and, in the case of compressors, I’ll use a med-fast attack/release with a med-high ratio like 6:1 or 8:1. Honestly though there are some plugs that at -18 the “box tone” alone is an aliasing nightmare and those I do tend to stay away from (especially if I haven’t already bought them ) As for PSP The 2245 reverb is probably my favorite plugin they make but I also like the E27 and Oldtimer
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Post by theshea on Jan 3, 2021 12:26:39 GMT -6
i care zero for this aliasing topic. i judge by ear and go with the old saying „if it sounds good it is good“. decapitator is like the plugin from hell, if you are listening to the aliasing gang. why do famous mixers make great records with it than? i couldn‘t care less for this aliasing BS ... sorry for the rant but i am sick of reading about it again and again. good mixing everyone. make some noise and music!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 17:44:50 GMT -6
Yeah that looks pretty good if those artifacts are down below -100 dB. I probably have more noise than that coming from my microphones / mic pres. I don’t want to derail this in to an aliasing thread but I’ve always wondered at what level does aliasing matter? I’ve read through the insane GS plugin testing thread and no one really ever answered that question. The only thing I’ve found is Andy (from Cytomic) saying for mastering plugs you might want to keep it under -100 dB. While you’re never (probably) going to hear that the two things that give me pause is let’s say I use a channel strip with -100 aliasing and use that on 50+ tracks - certainly aliasing is going to multiple to where it can be a problem. Likewise what if I send a signal that has been aliased at -100 into a second or third, etc plugin that also aliases at -100, you’re now aliasing the aliasing and that’s going to get messy real quick Some points. Aliasing is just IMD from bouncing off dc and nyquist limits The worst aliasing is usually not in the audio path but in control signals creating IMD and causing the process to become dysfunctional (FETpressor missing transients) to totally non-functional (Slate and Waves 76 attack and release)
IMD compounds. I wouldn't use 50 tracks of ClassicQ. It would start to sear. 50 tracks of Scheps 73 would be even worse.
PSP generally has three type of plugs: 1) Awesome reverbs, delay,s and modern non-linear processing that works with effective anti-aliasing, eg E27, MasterQ2, PreQursor2, 2445, Nexcellence etc.
2) Older non-linear processes with 2x oversampling that thankfully gets rid of major midrange aliasing. These killed Waves and UAD 1 but are outdated and slowly being updated.
3) No latency plugins (the build up to Infinistrip with modules done earlier released along the way as separate plugins?) that sort of work and alias and cramp in the highs but not nearly as much as Waves and McDSP
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 18:46:07 GMT -6
I don’t want to derail this in to an aliasing thread but I’ve always wondered at what level does aliasing matter? I’ve read through the insane GS plugin testing thread and no one really ever answered that question. The only thing I’ve found is Andy (from Cytomic) saying for mastering plugs you might want to keep it under -100 dB. While you’re never (probably) going to hear that the two things that give me pause is let’s say I use a channel strip with -100 aliasing and use that on 50+ tracks - certainly aliasing is going to multiple to where it can be a problem. Likewise what if I send a signal that has been aliased at -100 into a second or third, etc plugin that also aliases at -100, you’re now aliasing the aliasing and that’s going to get messy real quick I don't think -100 dB noise floor is bad at all for a channel. Especially in rock/pop music. Maybe for mixing a classical music track with no compression you would want some signal down near that floor to be listenable. Someone just told me about Friis formulas for cascaded series amplifier noise. It's a small part of the puzzle, maybe, for channel SNR but I'm not an expert in audio math. I don't know any summing formulas. I would just assume that digital summing is quieter than analog summing, but I haven't looked into it. If Dan says Q2 is good, as someone that's very aware of these sort of factors, I would assume it would not be a practical problem in a real mix. I agree with Ragan that all goes out the window in the heat of an artistic process. I think what most people do is evaluate their tools in off-time, and then just use the "chosen" tools for any given project, just relying on their previous tests and study. Or you could just get on with it and deal with the noise if it ever comes up in a mix. I don't think I have ever rejected a plugin due to aliasing noise, at least not consciously, although it's possible that I don't use some EQ's because of wonky sounding "math." But I might also use a bit crusher to create a pleasant amount of "bad audio" as needed, so it's subjective. In the Dan Worrall video about aliasing and sample rate, I actually preferred the "worse" plugin, the Reaper ReaEQ over the FabFilter Pro Q3. I liked the "cramped" high end, subjectively. The Q3 would have been "de-cramped." -100 is below self noise of most mics and pres. But that is a THD chart for one tone. Music is not one frequency. So if MasterQ2 analog button is -100 db below the fundamental at worst, ClassicQ2, with inadequate anti aliasing at 44.1, the treble is going to be nasty built up and with the ClassicQ saturation on or FETPressor, which has no anti-aliasing, is going to be very nasty built up. But you can do worse. There's Waves. Here's MasterQ2 analog on MasterQ2 analog on with the vintage limiter on. The limiters are arranged from least to most distorted left to right. After Vintage Limiter, you get some aliasing and bad imd. ClassicQ at 44.1 analog on with the aliased 2nd harmonic that will build up at 44.1 and 48khz. PSP 2x oversampling at 44.1 and 48 khz to uncramp highs seems to be inadequate then both analog and saturation on. Noticeably aliased. PSP year 2009 anti aliasing can't handle Neve type clipping and compare to FETPressor with no anti aliasing
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Post by Guitar on Jan 3, 2021 19:02:37 GMT -6
That's interesting. I bet Bob Ludwig could hear that in his room. I wonder if those are typical settings though, or "pushed" for stress testing. I wonder if it's an ugly distortion sound or a pretty one.
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