wave
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Posts: 46
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Post by wave on Jan 1, 2021 0:02:55 GMT -6
Yes pre orders in a few weeks. We make the valve mics in small batches as it's easier to QC and slave over the alignment - as you have seen me do Johnkenn! I am making a new batch of H47tube mics currently while doing my final R&D of the 251. Needless to say, there is some serious toobmajick going on over here -Dave
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 1, 2021 0:18:56 GMT -6
Yes pre orders in a few weeks. We make the valve mics in small batches as it's easier to QC and slave over the alignment - as you have seen me do Johnkenn! I am making a new batch of H47tube mics currently while doing my final R&D of the 251. Needless to say, there is some serious toobmajick going on over here -Dave I can certainly vouch for what Dave puts into this. He cares. Dave, that inner body work is just gorgeous. Congrats!
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Post by OtisGreying on Jan 1, 2021 9:03:56 GMT -6
Anxious to hear some samples in comparison with a vintage 251, the Upton too. Heiserman, please do a shootout with a vintage Elam 251 if you can!
The vintage Elam in the BH photo video shootout sounds fantastic. I would not mind having that sound in my studio..
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 1, 2021 11:22:28 GMT -6
Yes, shootouts would be nice. Around the same time this ships three new brands should also ship. With the Bock and Dave Pearlman's there will be quite a field to compare.
I have an original 251 if anybody wants to ship me one to test 😊
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Post by lordalvin on Jan 1, 2021 11:31:43 GMT -6
Anxious to hear some samples in comparison with a vintage 251, the Upton too. Heiserman, please do a shootout with a vintage Elam 251 if you can! The vintage Elam in the BH photo video shootout sounds fantastic. I would not mind having that sound in my studio.. I have been going back and forth with Dave comparing the H 251 to clips we made of real vintage 251's including the mic I used on Golden Hour and another beautiful original microphone in Nashville. We have also compared it to various reissue mics and custom builds. I can't believe how much work goes into every detail. At this point I am having a tough time telling the H 251 apart from the mic that we all identified as the best sounding, most original vintage 251 we could get our hands on. For Kacey's voice I went through 8 different vintage 251's and rejected 7 of them. So many of the vintage mics don't age well and people do stupid things to them to try to fix them or make them sound better. I can say this. I won't be renting the Golden Hour microphone any more.
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 1, 2021 11:44:52 GMT -6
Anxious to hear some samples in comparison with a vintage 251, the Upton too. Heiserman, please do a shootout with a vintage Elam 251 if you can! The vintage Elam in the BH photo video shootout sounds fantastic. I would not mind having that sound in my studio.. I have been going back and forth with Dave comparing the H 251 to clips we made of real vintage 251's including the mic I used on Golden Hour and another beautiful original microphone in Nashville. We have also compared it to various reissue mics and custom builds. I can't believe how much work goes into every detail. At this point I am having a tough time telling the H 251 apart from the mic that we all identified as the best sounding, most original vintage 251 we could get our hands on. For Kacey's voice I went through 8 different vintage 251's and rejected 7 of them. So many of the vintage mics don't age well and people do stupid things to them to try to fix them or make them sound better. I can say this. I won't be renting the Golden Hour microphone any more. Yes. Even examples of modern mics can sound vastly different. Tube mics are truly dependent on tube quality (which is hit and miss these day, especially 6072 tubes), and consistency of transformer and capsules. It always kills me that no one conducting these tests tries figure 8 or omni. That is where you see whether real care and workmanship was put into the important building blocks of the mic.
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Post by lordalvin on Jan 1, 2021 11:57:25 GMT -6
I have been going back and forth with Dave comparing the H 251 to clips we made of real vintage 251's including the mic I used on Golden Hour and another beautiful original microphone in Nashville. We have also compared it to various reissue mics and custom builds. I can't believe how much work goes into every detail. At this point I am having a tough time telling the H 251 apart from the mic that we all identified as the best sounding, most original vintage 251 we could get our hands on. For Kacey's voice I went through 8 different vintage 251's and rejected 7 of them. So many of the vintage mics don't age well and people do stupid things to them to try to fix them or make them sound better. I can say this. I won't be renting the Golden Hour microphone any more. Yes. Even examples of modern mics can sound vastly different. Tube mics are truly dependent on tube quality (which is hit and miss these day, especially 6072 tubes), and consistency of transformer and capsules. It always kills me that no one conducting these tests tries figure 8 or omni. That is where you see whether real care and workmanship was put into the important building blocks of the mic. Agreed. I was especially interested in figure 8 on the H 251 because I prefer that pattern on the original mic. It's has a little less gain, but it sounds really full and compressed in a nice way. It also does a nice job of rejecting the acoustic guitar if the person is playing and singing at the same time.
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wave
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Posts: 46
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Post by wave on Jan 1, 2021 11:59:40 GMT -6
Yes. Even examples of modern mics can sound vastly different. Tube mics are truly dependent on tube quality (which is hit and miss these day, especially 6072 tubes), and consistency of transformer and capsules. It always kills me that no one conducting these tests tries figure 8 or omni. That is where you see whether real care and workmanship was put into the important building blocks of the mic. We always test in every pattern. On the first 251 testing round, where we decided on the vintage mic to use for a target, we did all the clips in every pattern with every source. Those files are up here somewhere and include my first prototype, an Upton, the Golden Hour mic and the target mic ("Dolly" owned by JSteiger)
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wave
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Post by wave on Jan 1, 2021 12:01:44 GMT -6
Oh and for clarity, my first prototype is not this H251 prototype...
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 1, 2021 12:29:43 GMT -6
That's great to hear Dave. Not all boutique manufacturers seem to be so diligent. One of my OEM customers just wrote me about trying a batch of expensive handmade capsules from a boutique supplier: "What a disappointment really, non of the four sides did sound the same, and one side was even about 2db down."
That can even be said for many of my stock of vintage capsules.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 1, 2021 12:46:44 GMT -6
My ADK GK-12d definitely has slightly different capsules on front and back. I rotated it to the side up front that sounds the best on voice, I think it was a touch more bass response. Kind of subtle but why not.
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 1, 2021 12:49:39 GMT -6
Yes. Even Klaus Heyne is well known for recommending listening to both sides of a capsule to determine the better sounding half and then using that half as the cardioid side.
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Post by Ward on Jan 1, 2021 14:41:46 GMT -6
Yes. Even Klaus Heyne is well known for recommending listening to both sides of a capsule to determine the better sounding half and then using that half as the cardioid side. Klaus does an awful lot of fine-tuning U67RIs and can tailer any microphone to better fit any singer. Not all original 251s sounded the same. It was actually very hard to find two that perfectly matched AFAIK. wave has taken great pains to take a widely regarded 'perfect' 251 and not just meet that level but go even beyond it with a little scooping and slightly more open midrange. The sound capture is incredible.
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 1, 2021 14:52:31 GMT -6
Yes. Even Klaus Heyne is well known for recommending listening to both sides of a capsule to determine the better sounding half and then using that half as the cardioid side. Klaus does an awful lot of fine-tuning U67RIs and can tailer any microphone to better fit any singer. Not all original 251s sounded the same. It was actually very hard to find two that perfectly matched AFAIK. wave has taken great pains to take a widely regarded 'perfect' 251 and not just meet that level but go even beyond it with a little scooping and slightly more open midrange. The sound capture is incredible. Yes as an owner of a 251 and having worked on many of them (because of my work almost exclusively with AKG product) I agree. They can range from the sublime to the boring.
You have us at a disadvantage Ward (lucky son of a gun) in that you are one of the rare few that have heard this mic. I am looking forward to some real world comparisons by group members.
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Post by Ward on Jan 1, 2021 15:07:39 GMT -6
Klaus does an awful lot of fine-tuning U67RIs and can tailer any microphone to better fit any singer. Not all original 251s sounded the same. It was actually very hard to find two that perfectly matched AFAIK. wave has taken great pains to take a widely regarded 'perfect' 251 and not just meet that level but go even beyond it with a little scooping and slightly more open midrange. The sound capture is incredible. Yes as an owner of a 251 and having worked on many of them (because of my work almost exclusively with AKG product) I agree. They can range from the sublime to the boring. You have us at a disadvantage Ward (lucky son of a gun) in that you are one of the rare few that have heard this mic. I am looking forward to some real world comparisons by group members.
I can't wait either!! None of us hear exactly the same way, so a wide variety of qualified opinions is EXTREMELY important! And making comparison between a line model and something like Dolly always gives us a good idea. You're in a unique club, Tim, being one of the few CK12 builders people can depend on. Love to hear an objective take from you on it some day as well!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 1, 2021 15:34:54 GMT -6
Yes as an owner of a 251 and having worked on many of them (because of my work almost exclusively with AKG product) I agree. They can range from the sublime to the boring. You have us at a disadvantage Ward (lucky son of a gun) in that you are one of the rare few that have heard this mic. I am looking forward to some real world comparisons by group members.
I can't wait either!! None of us hear exactly the same way, so a wide variety of qualified opinions is EXTREMELY important! And making comparison between a line model and something like Dolly always gives us a good idea. You're in a unique club, Tim, being one of the few CK12 builders people can depend on. Love to hear an objective take from you on it some day as well! I’m not sure why we would want Tim reviewing a competitor’s product. And I’d say the same if it were the other way around.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 1, 2021 16:41:48 GMT -6
You guys should start a pro audio podcast called Tim And Eric Awesome Microphones, Great Job.
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 1, 2021 16:51:00 GMT -6
Yes!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 1, 2021 16:51:06 GMT -6
Ok. Back on topic.
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Post by reddirt on Jan 1, 2021 17:10:50 GMT -6
Lets keep this site's core values at the forefront of all our communications .
A Happy and respectful New Year to us all.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by reddirt on Jan 1, 2021 17:13:21 GMT -6
Normal service hopefully resumes Cheers, Ross
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 1, 2021 19:48:43 GMT -6
tskguy , do you have pricing set for this microphone yet?
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ericn
Temp
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Post by ericn on Jan 1, 2021 20:45:32 GMT -6
Lets keep this site's core values at the forefront of all our communications . A Happy and respectful New Year to us all. Cheers, Ross Keep John stocked with good Booze?
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jan 1, 2021 22:26:52 GMT -6
tskguy , do you have pricing set for this microphone yet? Pricing has not been set quite yet. We should have that figured out soon.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 1, 2021 22:32:35 GMT -6
I've been telling people at gearslutz about this thread, haha. It's an RGO exclusive so I'm trying to spread the word.
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