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Post by ab101 on Dec 14, 2020 16:22:36 GMT -6
Hi Friends:
So I have a great Heritage eq in 500 format that I love on bass - but it does not have a HPF on it.
So I have a software (DMG equality) hpf on the track that gets use before the signal goes to the Heritage eq (73eq jr) on mixdown. (I noticed BAE has a 73eq unit - with a HPF built-in, but this unit is backordered.)
Is this a bad idea? In my thinking, I would have like the HPF after the boost on the 500 series unit, but it does not have one.
Does it matter where the HPF is in the chain?
Thoughts? Comments? Recommendations?
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 14, 2020 16:33:09 GMT -6
From a transfer function perspective it doesn’t matter. Gain is multiplicative so the order doesn’t matter. I guess for maximum headroom you would want to do it before the stage where you might be boosting low end.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 14, 2020 18:11:32 GMT -6
I expect it would be useful to have the HPF on the actual preamp if you're running out of the preamp into a compressor. Then you could clear the muck before hitting the comp.
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Post by tkaitkai on Dec 14, 2020 18:29:43 GMT -6
It's not a bad idea, but as jcoutu1 mentioned, when compressing pre-A/D, you might want to hi-pass before the compressor. But if you're exclusively talking about recording bass, I usually wouldn't hi-pass on the way in at all. I almost never hi-pass DI instruments unless the low end is just totally overwhelming. I'd rather keep the low end in tact and filter out LF when I have the final tone. But that's just me. If you're dead set on using a HPF, you could try a low shelf cut at 35Hz on the 73EQ. |
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Post by svart on Dec 14, 2020 19:26:41 GMT -6
Depends on what you're trying to do. If you just want to cut low end, then anywhere is fine.
If you're doing a trick, like the Andy Wallace low end trick, then the order is important. BTW, the trick is to boost the extreme lows, like 40hz, into something that distorts slightly, then cutting at a higher point. The harmonics generated by the 40hz distortion are higher frequency and the hpf after cuts the extreme lows so that what's left are just the higher order harmonics.
It's similar to the missing fundamental trick or how RBass works.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921 
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Post by ericn on Dec 14, 2020 19:35:28 GMT -6
In most cases you want it on the pre amp before any compression or AD just to keep the comp from keying on anything your not hearing or use up all your headroom. It’s always nice to have a sweepable HPF somewhere in the rack so you can get to that Goldilocks point. Once you have sweepable HPF you never want to go back.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 14, 2020 22:22:47 GMT -6
It's not a bad idea, but as jcoutu1 mentioned, when compressing pre-A/D, you might want to hi-pass before the compressor. But if you're exclusively talking about recording bass, I usually wouldn't hi-pass on the way in at all. I almost never hi-pass DI instruments unless the low end is just totally overwhelming. I'd rather keep the low end in tact and filter out LF when I have the final tone. But that's just me. I have an opposing experience generally, bassists beat on that thang and DI signals almost always have larger percussive energy below 35 Hz, frequently down to DC. Cleaning that junk out makes EVERYTHING better. It's similar to a mic that needs a shockmount, but 10 times worse! For this purpose, I built HPF's with 12/16/25/31Hz selections. |
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Post by ab101 on Dec 14, 2020 22:39:23 GMT -6
Thank you all. I am loving this forum. It reminds me of the old 3daudioinc board, which was awesome.
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Post by tkaitkai on Dec 15, 2020 8:17:21 GMT -6
It's not a bad idea, but as jcoutu1 mentioned, when compressing pre-A/D, you might want to hi-pass before the compressor. But if you're exclusively talking about recording bass, I usually wouldn't hi-pass on the way in at all. I almost never hi-pass DI instruments unless the low end is just totally overwhelming. I'd rather keep the low end in tact and filter out LF when I have the final tone. But that's just me. I have an opposing experience generally, bassists beat on that thang and DI signals almost always have larger percussive energy below 35 Hz, frequently down to DC. Cleaning that junk out makes EVERYTHING better. It's similar to a mic that needs a shockmount, but 10 times worse! For this purpose, I built HPF's with 12/16/25/31Hz selections. I can see that. I definitely hi-pass most basses at some point, but for me, it's usually ITB once I have the "amped" tone that I'm looking for. Then again, the only HW filters I have at the moment are 75 and 90Hz... if I had the ones you built, I'd probably use them! |
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Post by schmalzy on Dec 15, 2020 8:41:53 GMT -6
But if you're exclusively talking about recording bass, I usually wouldn't hi-pass on the way in at all. I almost never hi-pass DI instruments unless the low end is just totally overwhelming. I'd rather keep the low end in tact and filter out LF when I have the final tone. But that's just me. I have an opposing experience generally, bassists beat on that thang and DI signals almost always have larger percussive energy below 35 Hz, frequently down to DC. Cleaning that junk out makes EVERYTHING better. It's similar to a mic that needs a shockmount, but 10 times worse! For this purpose, I built HPF's with 12/16/25/31Hz selections. This is why I use my Neve-style preamps for bass DI whenever possible. I think their transformers do a not-that-efficient job down at 30hz. It kind of cleans some of that stuff up before it even gets to my compression. I'll often do a multi-band sort of thing with the bass when I'm working with inconsistent playing or music that needs ultra-consistent lows. Compress (limit if ya' feelin' nasty) the low end before hitting any other processing and let everything else pass through the multi-band comp with little-to-no compression. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 15, 2020 22:29:21 GMT -6
10Hz baby  ok maybe 15 / 18/ 20 Hz at the most ( pics & vids to large to U/L ) Need to see that excursion, make them woofers xmax, not past linearity tho don’t want u to blow your subs! I filter at the bass track. Rarely on the on mixbuss b/c the phase from the EQ n sharp slopes makes the peaks of the mix higher & can affect your 2 bus ( analog ) chain you have gain staged into ) |
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Post by Blackdawg on Dec 15, 2020 23:39:01 GMT -6
Depends on what you're trying to do. If you just want to cut low end, then anywhere is fine. If you're doing a trick, like the Andy Wallace low end trick, then the order is important. BTW, the trick is to boost the extreme lows, like 40hz, into something that distorts slightly, then cutting at a higher point. The harmonics generated by the 40hz distortion are higher frequency and the hpf after cuts the extreme lows so that what's left are just the higher order harmonics. It's similar to the missing fundamental trick or how RBass works. I need to try this sometime. Keep forgetting to though. |
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ok maybe 15 / 18/ 20 Hz at the most 