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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 18:46:31 GMT -6
The kind of reverb that is huge and awesome but clients and fans might bitch about. The kind of reverb that was on your favorite records. This is REVERB. What are you guys using for what? What differentiates them for different uses for you?
This started when I grew absolutely sick of Valhalla and started back at square one with a Midiverb II and bought some emulations of it. I never liked Valhalla that much because it’s either aliased and bad lofi bright without turning into a trash can or weirdly smokey and diffuse. And I love good lofi reverb. There’s nothing like a proper trash can snare. Valhalla Vintage Verb just made me feel like I was mixing smooth r&b, bedroom music for baby making in candlelit bathtubs. Or worse, trap. I’d rather shoot myself in the skull than listen to trap. So I started trying out plugins of the classics.
I’ve been testing a bunch of plugin algorithmic ones and have a lot more to try. My new favorite for real world use so far is the PSP 2445. I use it in both mono and stereo and it sounds dark and huge at longer decays while not sounding wrong at .2s. I’ll make another thread about delays in a but but I am curious about these now.
AMS: The classic REVERB reverb. The UAD RMX 16 is the only plug I’m aware of. The recreations are out but expensive.
Lexicon: The lexicon branded plugs. Degraded Harman quality? UAD 224 and 480L vs the Relab 480L vs Lexicon brand? I’m not the biggest Lexicon reverb fan but they are classics.
Eventide: Is Ultraverb the same as the old TDM plug? The SP2016 looks like a must buy. I’ll definitely pick it up. How is versus the Lexicon standards? What about the all the little specialty reverbs? Are they all just individual algorithms from the H3000 and H4000?
EMT: PSP 2445 I was recommended out of the blue and had to buy right away because it was so awesome and sat so well. UAD has the 140 and 250. Has anyone tried the 246 hardware?
Alesis: The Midiverb I and II are the shit but the Quadraverb hardware disappointed me. Ugritone 1989verb is a nice drum beefener and the thickener is cool but it lacks the Alesis drive and dark crunch. Goodhertz Megaverb nails the crunch and is much more utilitarian but lacks the thickening abilities because the decay time only goes down to .5s
Yamaha Are there any emulations of the SPX 90?
Plates: The Rare Signals is so awesome but sounds so good it is often the best sounding thing in the mix. The reverb is better than the actual recording. The snare or vocal it is on just JUMPS! Kush Gold Plate is super flexible and never sounds bad. UVI Plate is cool and even more flexible but never seems to sound as good as the above ones.
Capital Chambers Awesome but can run into the same problem as the Rare signals for me. wow this band escaped from the garage/warehouse practice space to there?
Of course there is the Bricasti, Altiverb, VoS Epicverb (the most flexible trash can verb around), Phoenix, Waves Abbey Road, Waves, and others but I wanted to focus on the stuff that is on or infested the old records we love.
Dan
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Post by sean on Dec 7, 2020 22:16:38 GMT -6
Valhalla Shimmer has a “Bloom” preset that’s pretty much identical to the MidiVerb II patch (I’ve A/B). I think SoundToys Micro Pitch Shift has a Pitch Change C setting.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 8, 2020 1:08:16 GMT -6
Man, I updated my VVV and Vintage plates and Valhalla delay...and these plugs really might be the best value in the plug-in market. There are some new Lagos for different rooms and delays and they just make these even better.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 8, 2020 1:31:44 GMT -6
You didn’t mention LiquidSonics or experiential Audio or Fab Filter?
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Post by sean on Dec 8, 2020 8:36:38 GMT -6
The Exponential Audio stuff is great. There have definitely been situations where I’m glad I’ve had them!
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Post by Ward on Dec 8, 2020 9:54:37 GMT -6
The Exponential Audio stuff is great. There have definitely been situations where I’m glad I’ve had them! Is there still a PT10 compatible version available?
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2020 11:43:19 GMT -6
You mention both hardware and software. I think. Or maybe or maybe software based hardware emulations? I sold my 480L. If I could reliably keep it running, if it had any long term legs, and if I didn't get so dam much $$ for it, I'd still have it. The Bricasti doesn't do the Lexicon stuff as well as Lexicon does. I rarely use a bunch of the hardware verbs I still have. The one piece of hardware that nothing can touch (IMO) is my Bricasti. It stays, it gets used. I've not been super happy with convolutions, I tend to lean towards algorithmic verbs for whatever reason. Going to give reverberate a try and see how it hangs. So far, I'm not blown away, but I really haven't give it a fair shot yet, but out of the gate I wasn't wow'd.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Dec 8, 2020 12:28:10 GMT -6
One of the biggest things that always seams to draw us back to vintage digital hardware is the analog section and the conversion. If I bypass the analog section of a Lexicon or Eventide and use say the RADAR AD and DA it just doesn’t sound the same, most have described it as not as musical. So if I’m a plug-in developer I’m not just worried about porting these old algorithms I’m also tasked with modeling the analog sections and conversion.
As far as Convolution, I think it has /had the potential, but when the bottom fell out of the hardware reverb market you lost the big development budgets of Yamaha and Harmon. Now you can find those boxes for next to nothing, but those disks will cost you a small fortune.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 8, 2020 14:21:40 GMT -6
You mention both hardware and software. I think. Or maybe or maybe software based hardware emulations? I sold my 480L. If I could reliably keep it running, if it had any long term legs, and if I didn't get so dam much $$ for it, I'd still have it. The Bricasti doesn't do the Lexicon stuff as well as Lexicon does. I rarely use a bunch of the hardware verbs I still have. The one piece of hardware that nothing can touch (IMO) is my Bricasti. It stays, it gets used. I've not been super happy with convolutions, I tend to lean towards algorithmic verbs for whatever reason. Going to give reverberate a try and see how it hangs. So far, I'm not blown away, but I really haven't give it a fair shot yet, but out of the gate I wasn't wow'd. So far, my biggest issue with Reverberate is that it gives you more than enough rope to hang yourself. And it's easy to hang yourself. I find I'm having to tweak it to get happy. I'm not sure it'll become an everyday 'verb for me, but I'm glad to have it in the stable for experimentation.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 8, 2020 14:27:40 GMT -6
The kind of reverb that is huge and awesome but clients and fans might bitch about. The kind of reverb that was on your favorite records. This is REVERB. What are you guys using for what? What differentiates them for different uses for you? [...] AMS:The classic REVERB reverb. The UAD RMX 16 is the only plug I’m aware of. The recreations are out but expensive. Lexicon:The lexicon branded plugs. Degraded Harman quality? UAD 224 and 480L vs the Relab 480L vs Lexicon brand? I’m not the biggest Lexicon reverb fan but they are classics. Eventide:Is Ultraverb the same as the old TDM plug? The SP2016 looks like a must buy. I’ll definitely pick it up. How is versus the Lexicon standards? What about the all the little specialty reverbs? Are they all just individual algorithms from the H3000 and H4000? EMT:PSP 2445 I was recommended out of the blue and had to buy right away because it was so awesome and sat so well. UAD has the 140 and 250. Has anyone tried the 246 hardware? Alesis:The Midiverb I and II are the shit but the Quadraverb hardware disappointed me. Ugritone 1989verb is a nice drum beefener and the thickener is cool but it lacks the Alesis drive and dark crunch. Goodhertz Megaverb nails the crunch and is much more utilitarian but lacks the thickening abilities because the decay time only goes down to .5s YamahaAre there any emulations of the SPX 90? Plates:The Rare Signals is so awesome but sounds so good it is often the best sounding thing in the mix. The reverb is better than the actual recording. The snare or vocal it is on just JUMPS! Kush Gold Plate is super flexible and never sounds bad. UVI Plate is cool and even more flexible but never seems to sound as good as the above ones. Capital ChambersAwesome but can run into the same problem as the Rare signals for me. wow this band escaped from the garage/warehouse practice space to there? Of course there is the Bricasti, Altiverb, VoS Epicverb (the most flexible trash can verb around), Phoenix, Waves Abbey Road, Waves, and others but I wanted to focus on the stuff that is on or infested the old records we love. Dan You didn’t mention LiquidSonics or experiential Audio or Fab Filter? I have to say I've been really surprised over the past week pulling out LiquidSonics/Slate VerbSuite Classics. I had given up on that plugin a couple years ago b/c I just didn't like the interface, but I've been loving it the past few days. It's got a lot of units sampled in there, including the RMX16, SP2016, 224, 480, EMT250, a couple TC Electronics 'verbs, and more. Having said that, the Eventide SP2016 algo plugin is really good, and can definitely do that HUGE thing. It's on sale right now, too. And the LiquidSonics Lustrous Plates is really good for, well, plates.
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Post by drumsound on Dec 8, 2020 14:32:16 GMT -6
ITB I like the Eventide 2016, and the Soundtoys Plate (usually with Echoboy for predelay). The U-he Protoverb is truly unique. The idea is that its trying to mimic the air in a space, not the reflections. I mixed an acoustic record done in a small home studio and the Protoverb was the only reverb I used. I doesn't sound like "reverb" but it does expand the sound. And...ITS FREE. Depending on the mix situation, I still use my TC M3000 a lot. It just sounds great, and is really easy to dial in. For recall, I usually print its return to a stereo track. Though, if I know the artist is going to asking for a lot of revisions, I do more ITB effects and less hitting the outboard.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 8, 2020 17:01:32 GMT -6
One of the biggest things that always seams to draw us back to vintage digital hardware is the analog section and the conversion. If I bypass the analog section of a Lexicon or Eventide and use say the RADAR AD and DA it just doesn’t sound the same, most have described it as not as musical. So if I’m a plug-in developer I’m not just worried about porting these old algorithms I’m also tasked with modeling the analog sections and conversion. As far as Convolution, I think it has /had the potential, but when the bottom fell out of the hardware reverb market you lost the big development budgets of Yamaha and Harmon. Now you can find those boxes for next to nothing, but those disks will cost you a small fortune. The first time running a hardware 480L via an analog console was only exceeded when I brought up the reverb return faders of the near mint EMT140 I scored in 2017.
It was one of those "That's it!" moments.
Am yet to be wowed to the same extent by a plugin emulation.
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Post by christopher on Dec 8, 2020 17:20:57 GMT -6
I’ve been using tape echo w/feedback feeding an old pos DOD R-845 spring that has a terribly wimpy front end. I’m guessing some ICs are clipping? Has a little red clip light and it’s always on red. It’s just for fun, until I compare it to ITB verbs of all kinds, and that spring w/echo actually sounds more 3D than the convolution IR plates I normally use? It’s so ridiculous that I don’t even trust my own statement on this one. I wish I could get a plate someday though.
For plugin verb I’m demoing Sunset from IK multimedia, I’m definitely going to buy it. It’s literally the first plugin in years that has me excited. Mostly the visual part of the plugin, and the little “info” box in the options. I’m totally floored by this thing, use it on sends and I’m replacing all my noise floors with Sunset’s rooms and iso booths, and I’m super thrilled. Nice it comes with their 3 chambers, 2 plates, and a BX20. The plates and chambers are epic, but tape echo and spring is also covering similar ground. Nice thing the plugin has ultra clarity, I can always dirty it up if need be.
I’m pretty impressed with IK multimedia, the sound quality of their tape sims are the best available IMO, I compared their MCI jh 24 versus my 110 and it’s suprising how close in signature it sounded. And the prices are sane.
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Post by drumsound on Dec 8, 2020 23:56:24 GMT -6
I’ve been using tape echo w/feedback feeding an old pos DOD R-845 spring that has a terribly wimpy front end. I’m guessing some ICs are clipping? Has a little red clip light and it’s always on red. It’s just for fun, until I compare it to ITB verbs of all kinds, and that spring w/echo actually sounds more 3D than the convolution IR plates I normally use? It’s so ridiculous that I don’t even trust my own statement on this one. I wish I could get a plate someday though. For plugin verb I’m demoing Sunset from IK multimedia, I’m definitely going to buy it. It’s literally the first plugin in years that has me excited. Mostly the visual part of the plugin, and the little “info” box in the options. I’m totally floored by this thing, use it on sends and I’m replacing all my noise floors with Sunset’s rooms and iso booths, and I’m super thrilled. Nice it comes with their 3 chambers, 2 plates, and a BX20. The plates and chambers are epic, but tape echo and spring is also covering similar ground. Nice thing the plugin has ultra clarity, I can always dirty it up if need be. I’m pretty impressed with IK multimedia, the sound quality of their tape sims are the best available IMO, I compared their MCI jh 24 versus my 110 and it’s suprising how close in signature it sounded. And the prices are sane. One of the reasons I'm [finally] considering a PT upgrade is so I can try the Sunset Sound plugin!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 0:17:21 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I’m going to check out the Eventide SP2016 and the Goodhertz Protoverb. The Eventide is on sale so that helps. Anyone ever use the Relab LX480? It looks cool but is 100 more dollars than the Eventide. It does more though but the Eventide looks easier to use and that matters a lot for me. Fabfilter reverb looks cool too. I’m guessing it’s a bit boring and dry sounding? Everything I’ve heard about the Bricasti is awesome. I want one but cannot afford it now and need to get a new PC and more reliable monitors for my next big audio purchases.
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Post by superwack on Dec 9, 2020 0:29:16 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I’m going to check out the Eventide SP2016 and the Goodhertz Protoverb. The Eventide is on sale so that helps. Anyone ever use the Relab LX480? It looks cool but is 100 more dollars than the Eventide. It does more though but the Eventide looks easier to use and that matters a lot for me. Fabfilter reverb looks cool too. I’m guessing it’s a bit boring and dry sounding? Everything I’ve heard about the Bricasti is awesome. I want one but cannot afford it now and need to get a new PC and more reliable monitors for my next big audio purchases. Definitely check out the SP2016. Personally I think it's great, one of my favorites for sure. Have you demo'd Relab Sonsig Rev-A? It's got a streamlined interface but it is deep and it's got a 224 and Quantec output stage (also a clean one). I got the freebie CLA Echothing on BF and, frankly, thought the Plate sounded terrible so I was sniffing around (because I need more reverbs??!!?) and impulse bought the new-ish Denise Audio Perfect Plate on a whim. Haven't used it much but I really, really like it and it's got ducking and can do reverse plate. There is an "XL" version and you can update from the normal one - I didn't think I needed those features though. I’ll warn you there website is not too easy but if you go to the perfect plate XL and scroll down there is a good demo video where they go through both
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Post by drbill on Dec 9, 2020 1:19:53 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I’m going to check out the Eventide SP2016 and the Goodhertz Protoverb. The Eventide is on sale so that helps. Anyone ever use the Relab LX480? It looks cool but is 100 more dollars than the Eventide. It does more though but the Eventide looks easier to use and that matters a lot for me. Fabfilter reverb looks cool too. I’m guessing it’s a bit boring and dry sounding? Everything I’ve heard about the Bricasti is awesome. I want one but cannot afford it now and need to get a new PC and more reliable monitors for my next big audio purchases. Dan - the SP2016 is very good. The LX480 is good too. Probably better than the Lexicon plugs. I waffle back and forth with verbs. Like them for awhile, then tire of them. I've had the LX for quite awhile. And I still use it. I've been favoring the TC verb from Relab lately though. And the 2016 gets used a lot. I'd probably go with the LX over the 2016, but dam, thee 2016 is very cool too...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 2:33:44 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I’m going to check out the Eventide SP2016 and the Goodhertz Protoverb. The Eventide is on sale so that helps. Anyone ever use the Relab LX480? It looks cool but is 100 more dollars than the Eventide. It does more though but the Eventide looks easier to use and that matters a lot for me. Fabfilter reverb looks cool too. I’m guessing it’s a bit boring and dry sounding? Everything I’ve heard about the Bricasti is awesome. I want one but cannot afford it now and need to get a new PC and more reliable monitors for my next big audio purchases. Dan - the SP2016 is very good. The LX480 is good too. Probably better than the Lexicon plugs. I waffle back and forth with verbs. Like them for awhile, then tire of them. I've had the LX for quite awhile. And I still use it. I've been favoring the TC verb from Relab lately though. And the 2016 gets used a lot. I'd probably go with the LX over the 2016, but dam, thee 2016 is very cool too... Thanks that's how I am too. My guitar tech friend said the Lexicon was more flexible but the Eventide was cheaper but the Eventide just had that big sound in my demo tonight. I waffle between reverbs and am even using the PSP 2445 as room now. I was using the Goodhertz Megaverb for that for a few months too and creating rooms through eqing and adjusting the volume of sends to the reverb while heavily eqing and gating it for drums. The kush is for one snare in an upcoming project that needs that bright plate sound but lofi and it was just perfect for that.
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Post by keymod on Dec 9, 2020 3:58:53 GMT -6
My Kurzweil KSP8 with remote is one piece of hardware I hope to always have available.
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 9, 2020 5:55:55 GMT -6
I love Altiverb for its concert halls. It can really help me get that classical, singing in a hall feel. I’m using it all over my Christmas album for instruments, choirs vocals, etc. It’s been one of my go toos for that reason. I did a live classical recording of a choir and small orchestral ensemble in a church in NYC a few years back and was easily able to match the sound of the church itself using one of its church verbs.
I have been loving the Slate Verbsuite Classics for a few years now. Not only does it have a version of LiquidSonic’s M7 emulation, but the TC Electronic 6000 has a setting that is the vocal verb I have always been looking for, and these days ends up on everything I record. I’m really not sure what it is about that reverb, but I can’t even tell you how many times I send a mock up mix of a studio vocal to a client for review and they ask what the reverb is, or share a mix with an associate and they ask what it is. It’s definitely worth looking at, whether you are into the Slate stuff or not.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 9, 2020 6:18:43 GMT -6
I love Altiverb for its concert halls. It can really help me get that classical, singing in a hall feel. I’m using it all over my Christmas album for instruments, choirs vocals, etc. It’s been one of my go toos for that reason. I did a live classical recording of a choir and small orchestral ensemble in a church in NYC a few years back and was easily able to match the sound of the church itself using one of its church verbs. I have been loving the Slate Verbsuite Classics for a few years now. Not only does it have a version of LiquidSonic’s M7 emulation, but the TC Electronic 6000 has a setting that is the vocal verb I have always been looking for, and these days ends up on everything I record. I’m really not sure what it is about that reverb, but I can’t even tell you how many times I send a mock up mix of a studio vocal to a client for review and they ask what the reverb is, or share a mix with an associate and they ask what it is. It’s definitely worth looking at, whether you are into the Slate stuff or not. Which TC 6000 patch is it, Vincent? (If you don’t mind me asking.) Sooooo many choices in that plugin...
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Post by phantom on Dec 9, 2020 6:22:09 GMT -6
Liquidsonics Lustrous Plates (EMTs) and Seventh Heaven (Bricasti) are pretty good.
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 9, 2020 7:07:53 GMT -6
I love Altiverb for its concert halls. It can really help me get that classical, singing in a hall feel. I’m using it all over my Christmas album for instruments, choirs vocals, etc. It’s been one of my go toos for that reason. I did a live classical recording of a choir and small orchestral ensemble in a church in NYC a few years back and was easily able to match the sound of the church itself using one of its church verbs. I have been loving the Slate Verbsuite Classics for a few years now. Not only does it have a version of LiquidSonic’s M7 emulation, but the TC Electronic 6000 has a setting that is the vocal verb I have always been looking for, and these days ends up on everything I record. I’m really not sure what it is about that reverb, but I can’t even tell you how many times I send a mock up mix of a studio vocal to a client for review and they ask what the reverb is, or share a mix with an associate and they ask what it is. It’s definitely worth looking at, whether you are into the Slate stuff or not. Which TC 6000 patch is it, Vincent? (If you don’t mind me asking.) Sooooo many choices in that plugin... If you go to presets for vocal, its the 6k vocal plate. They call it a plate in the preset, but I actually think it's a hall/plate mix and is in the hall list on the actual emulations list. I'd have to double check that when I'm in the studio. I dial back the width and I use the effect in parallel, putting it on an effects send and sending my vocal to it. You have to control it using the send from your vocal. It's really easy to overload it and distort it. Then I sum them both into a vocal bus. This really seems to dial a sound I love. You can hear that in my "Autumn Leaves" video:
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 9, 2020 7:18:56 GMT -6
Which TC 6000 patch is it, Vincent? (If you don’t mind me asking.) Sooooo many choices in that plugin... If you go to presets for vocal, its the 6k vocal plate. They call it a plate in the preset, but I actually think it's a hall/plate mix and is in the hall list on the actual emulations list. I'd have to double check that when I'm in the studio. I dial back the width and I use the effect in parallel, putting it on an effects send and sending my vocal to it. You have to control it using the send from your vocal. It's really easy to overload it and distort it. Then I sum them both into a vocal bus. This really seems to dial a sound I love. You can hear that in my "Autumn Leaves" video: Awesome! Thanks, man! I'm looking forward to watching that clip later today.
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 9, 2020 10:13:58 GMT -6
For anyone interested, here is the classical track I was talking about using the Margarita Church in Altiverb:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/vincent-ricciardi/pater-in-manus-tuas-live-wst-monica-choir
Here is voice and the orchestra placed in Altiverb's Sydney Opera House:
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