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Post by mrholmes on Dec 7, 2020 17:46:42 GMT -6
During BF I bought their compressor bundle for 90% off. And they were so kind to change the LA3A, which I already owned, against their take on tape.
I must say they all sound very good, used the tape on LV just for toying around and my yaw dropped. Nonetheless, if it sounds like tape or not (I.D.G.A.S.) the LV was bigger nicer and more likeable - very big smile.
Double-checked the levels... for not fooling myself....
LA2A also sounds sweet and nice too..... haven't checked the 80s compressors yet.
I don't know what they do at BRA, but they do something right.
Bloody Krauts.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 17:52:54 GMT -6
They’re awesome! Ray Dratwa is the man. He does the best and most efficient modeling around.
Try his Fuse Audio Labs plugins. He upped his game going out on his own. They behave a bit more like analog gear, a bit less polished and sheeny, and get much, much weirder without any duds like the clicky VLA-FET. VCL-4 is the best behaving and most flexible itb optical comp but there’s no sheen or sweetness. The VCL-515 is the craziest Varimu plug around. The overshoot without the high pass filter engaged is insane.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 7, 2020 19:52:32 GMT -6
They’re awesome! Ray Dratwa is the man. He does the best and most efficient modeling around. Try his Fuse Audio Labs plugins. He upped his game going out on his own. They behave a bit more like analog gear, a bit less polished and sheeny, and get much, much weirder without any duds like the clicky VLA-FET. VCL-4 is the best behaving and most flexible itb optical comp but there’s no sheen or sweetness. The VCL-515 is the craziest Varimu plug around. The overshoot without the high pass filter engaged is insane. I read about him and they are still connected. Fuse Labs I own the VCL4 which can sound awesome on vocals. The FLA FET? I just used it to compare to the Purple MC 77, sounds darker to me, the 77 ads some extra sheen to the vocals followed by the rooster LA2 - nice combo, each just doing a few db of reduction. Have to demo the VCL 515....🎶🎛✌️ Two years ago I wouldn’t have thought that ITB ever gets it right. First big doubt was the MC77 I couldn’t hear a significant difference to my hardware. Sooner or later I can’t justify the racks anymore....
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Post by Ward on Dec 8, 2020 7:40:24 GMT -6
First big doubt was the MC77 I couldn’t hear a significant difference to my hardware. Sooner or later I can’t justify the racks anymore.... Luckily, I'm here to buy your old rack gear from you. 10¢ on the dollar!! Get rid of that old hardware... you don't need it anymore. Go to the dark side. They have M&Ms and Anime.
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2020 9:30:10 GMT -6
Yeah rack gear sucks. . I'm with ward. Gonna pile on..... My latest non-plugin - 4 Avalon 2055's. Coming to a theater near you soon..... Done with plugin hoarding. I mean, there's no way around it. I use em. But until my studio won't cool off or is so full I can't fit in it.....there will be more racks and more rack gear. I tried the BR stuff. It's OK for a plugin. Seems well done. Their tape plug sounds nothing like tape to me..... The one plug that hit me positively (although I haven't used it that much yet) was the magic death eye, which I think is supposed to be a bad sounding plugin, lol. I honestly am glad Ward of the state that many like plugins. <thumbsup>
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Post by Ward on Dec 8, 2020 9:50:51 GMT -6
Their tape plug sounds nothing like tape to me..... Nothing does. I mean, sweet rolls of cinnamon, we tried so hard to finally get past all the BS that came with tape . . . and now those who never suffered through it are clamouring for "the sound". The sound of wailing and gnashing of teeth . . . . in a torture chamber.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 11:13:37 GMT -6
Yeah rack gear sucks. . I'm with ward. Gonna pile on..... My latest non-plugin - 4 Avalon 2055's. Coming to a theater near you soon..... Done with plugin hoarding. I mean, there's no way around it. I use em. But until my studio won't cool off or is so full I can't fit in it.....there will be more racks and more rack gear. I tried the BR stuff. It's OK for a plugin. Seems well done. Their tape plug sounds nothing like tape to me..... Hey the Tokyo Dawn stuff is as good as any hardware I've used in it's own special way. Those, dither plugins, and Sound Radix Auto-Align on multi-miced instruments are the only things I can recommend 100% to everyone. Even Auto-align on entire drum kits messes up and makes them 2d and too transient heavy, destroying the kit as an entire instrument played by a musician occupying it's own space. Their tape is cool but it's just a cool effect. U-he Satin is still the only thing I've found that can even take being piled onto every track in every mix for what I do. It just sounds better that way piled up so I can barely hear it. Everything gels. No other tape sim does that for me. The Slate VTM pile up is so sheened like a JJ Abrams movie. The rest are cool 2-bus fx to cool lofi fx to just sound badizers.
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2020 11:34:48 GMT -6
Their tape plug sounds nothing like tape to me..... Nothing does. I mean, sweet rolls of cinnamon, we tried so hard to finally get past all the BS that came with tape . . . and now those who never suffered through it are clamouring for "the sound". The sound of wailing and gnashing of teeth . . . . in a torture chamber. Hahahahhhaaaaaa!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. This is truth. The guys who never had to align a 2" MCI two + X's every day never really know do they? Even for those who still own machines, how often do you think they align them? LOL
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2020 11:36:27 GMT -6
Yeah rack gear sucks.<snip>.... Hey the Tokyo Dawn stuff is as good as any hardware I've used in it's own special way. . Just curious Dan, respectfully, what kind of hardware have you used? I've got some of the Tokyo Dawn stuff. It's nice. It's not hardware from my perspective by a long shot. I'm curious what your hardware experience has been. You seem very informed on plugins. <thumbsup> I think we've pretty well derailed mrholmes thread....LOL
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 8, 2020 13:01:58 GMT -6
This reminder was not meant to become one of those endless ITB OTB discussions. Just a reminder that I like what I hear, nor I said anything like I had the hardware units in AB in here my studio - I don't.
I just said it sounds great and it reminds me a lot on my hardware. I can understand why some top AE switch now to all ITB 2019 2020. Its over that you have to search for the artifacts when putting on an 1176. I remember when I first used the real deal and I got back to the first UAD take on the 1176 a JOKE..... all the fun in the sound was not there. These days are long gone... they simulate more and more the fine details in many aspects.
I don't understand why messages of this kind normally are kindly commented, while mine is commented with sheer sarcasm. Makes the impression every blue board tuns into a typical blue board one day?
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 8, 2020 20:23:58 GMT -6
Hey the Tokyo Dawn stuff is as good as any hardware I've used in it's own special way. . Just curious Dan, respectfully, what kind of hardware have you used? I've got some of the Tokyo Dawn stuff. It's nice. It's not hardware from my perspective by a long shot. I'm curious what your hardware experience has been. You seem very informed on plugins. <thumbsup> I think we've pretty well derailed mrholmes thread....LOL Oh my I just said the new plugs can do the trick for me. But maybe it’s also that I perform the music better when I can work on different ideas just with a click. That all doesn’t mean I will sell my gear tomorrow. It means I can see the end of an era, the way we used to work is changing. Btw I don’t care anymore which tool works. You taught me not to second guess when it sounds good. Guess what....
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Post by lpedrum on Dec 8, 2020 21:27:59 GMT -6
I don't understand why messages of this kind normally are kindly commented, while mine is commented with sheer sarcasm. Makes the impression every blue board tuns into a typical blue board one day? It's simply very easy for guys that have amassed a large amount of outboard gear over decades to rag on plugins. I like both. Both are good. Both have their advantages over the other beyond simply $$ or convenience. I like to read everyones' opinion here. But maybe the "outboard is the only way to record" guys should lay off the software threads. After all, I don't see plugin lovers raiding threads about AudioScape calling them archaic, environmentally unfriendly, or overpriced.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 8, 2020 21:37:57 GMT -6
If I had good patchbays & PT wouldn’t wig randomly when printing HW inserts I would use all type of HW. Plugins aren’t a 1:1, it’s like comparing a well built clone to the real deal. Clone capture 90% of the real, it’s the extra 5-10% that separates the clone from real or HW from plugins.
If you can’t make great music without HW, using today’s plugins, it’s def not the plugins preventing that. Likewise if you can’t make great music with plugins, a bunch of HW won’t be the magic item for you to make great music.
We are all lucky to have such awesome HW & SW tools to work with!
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 8, 2020 22:44:58 GMT -6
Nothing does. I mean, sweet rolls of cinnamon, we tried so hard to finally get past all the BS that came with tape . . . and now those who never suffered through it are clamouring for "the sound". The sound of wailing and gnashing of teeth . . . . in a torture chamber. Hahahahhhaaaaaa!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. This is truth. The guys who never had to align a 2" MCI two + X's every day never really know do they? Even for those who still own machines, how often do you think they align them? LOL I never minded aligning the Studer 827 - no need for a tweaker! But man if I never see damn lynx again it’ll be too soon. Screw those things!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 23:16:32 GMT -6
Hey the Tokyo Dawn stuff is as good as any hardware I've used in it's own special way. . Just curious Dan, respectfully, what kind of hardware have you used? I've got some of the Tokyo Dawn stuff. It's nice. It's not hardware from my perspective by a long shot. I'm curious what your hardware experience has been. You seem very informed on plugins. <thumbsup> I think we've pretty well derailed mrholmes thread....LOL Pm sent on plugin tone stacks and aliased side chains
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2020 23:40:10 GMT -6
Hahahahhhaaaaaa!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. This is truth. The guys who never had to align a 2" MCI two + X's every day never really know do they? Even for those who still own machines, how often do you think they align them? LOL I never minded aligning the Studer 827 - no need for a tweaker! But man if I never see damn lynx again it’ll be too soon. Screw those things! Yeah, the 827 is a dream compared to a JH24. Yeah, I still have a pair of Lynx's staring at the back of my head from a rack in the back of the room. They made me a lot of $$, but yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Days of old.....Not everything was better.
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Post by drbill on Dec 8, 2020 23:49:46 GMT -6
BTW, just to be forthcoming - I've got nothing against plugins unless I have a better hardware choice - which I mostly do. I use em all the time. But when I need an 1176, LA, API EQ, Neve Pre, Tube saturation, VariMu, etc - I just use analog. No matter the hype in either direction I can get where I want almost instantly with my hardware, and it takes fiddling with plug ins. And I like to work fast. No plug-in stacks, no measurements, no worrying about aliasing or high sample rates or ?? Just hit a hardware insert and I'm there in seconds. Personally, I tend to not care for modeling mics, and I don't care for (most - I haven't tried all) modeling plugins. Where plugins shine for me is where they break new ground, not copying old worn out gear with worn out looking GUI's, and worn out numbers making every young AE think they are the same as the old gear with the same number and same look. I respect plugin manufacturers who break new ground tremendously. So....Sorry for the derailment mrholmes and folks. Now....... Back to plug-in LOVE!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 0:31:56 GMT -6
The modeling mics are crap. Who would use a Chinese condenser modeling a shure over a shure? Where’s my vintage SM57 IR and proximity affect dsp IR for blue tooth headsets and iPhone mics? That’s what some dumbasses actually need.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 9, 2020 7:45:53 GMT -6
Agreed with drbill that for the most part, hardware is still faster, with a bigger, broader sweet spot. But even most of us who love hardware are forced to live on a spectrum of "some hardware, some plugins," whether due to financial constraints, recall time constraints, space constraints, or significant-other-constraints. And each of us is at a slightly different place on that spectrum. So finding plugins that impart a bit of analog vibe is important for some of us. In keeping with mrholmes original thread direction, I'll say that I think one can do a lot worse than Black Rooster. I don't always love the envelope of the VLA-2A, but it's got nice tone. It's better than most other LA-2A plugs to my ears. After hearing what Ray has done with the LA4 @ Fuse Audio, I'd like to hear another attempt at an LA-2A from him. Brighton (from London Acoustics) is still the closest LA-2A in plugin form that I've ever heard. It's scary close to my Stam SA-2A. But it has to run in Nebula or the free Nebula Player, and takes a lot of CPU. The Black Rooster VEQ-1P is one of the better Pultec emus out there, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 9:57:35 GMT -6
The VPRE-73 is unreal smooth and sheeny. It’s like what people told you Neve was before you experienced mud, farts, and a steely high end that sounds medieval.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 9, 2020 10:29:21 GMT -6
BTW, just to be forthcoming - I've got nothing against plugins unless I have a better hardware choice - which I mostly do. I use em all the time. But when I need an 1176, LA, API EQ, Neve Pre, Tube saturation, VariMu, etc - I just use analog. No matter the hype in either direction I can get where I want almost instantly with my hardware, and it takes fiddling with plug ins. And I like to work fast. No plug-in stacks, no measurements, no worrying about aliasing or high sample rates or ?? Just hit a hardware insert and I'm there in seconds. Personally, I tend to not care for modeling mics, and I don't care for (most - I haven't tried all) modeling plugins. Where plugins shine for me is where they break new ground, not copying old worn out gear with worn out looking GUI's, and worn out numbers making every young AE think they are the same as the old gear with the same number and same look. I respect plugin manufacturers who break new ground tremendously. So....Sorry for the derailment mrholmes and folks. Now....... Back to plug-in LOVE!!!
With no word I said you can't use analog nor did I say that plug ins are the holy grail. I said they get damn good and you can create pro sounding music with them, and that I can see that some day it's maybe the only way for me.
I also do not get the fact why -we all- have the attitude to generalize things.
Can only speak for me: I don't want to limit my creativity, and I can hear in 2020 that both domains can work great.
Once again try the Sonnox Inflator with soft settings on the mix bus and you may, agree that it can replace a hardware piece.
Another thing comes to my mind. Potential SB customers are young, more narcissistic with this, and easily to offend when they seek their self-worth out of their fancy plug in collection.
I may, would not bash the use of plug ins too much, because you can lose potential customers. Even I have the SB still on my mind....
Overall:
Is all this important to me. No, my aim was to share my joy about a few good sounding tools. Nothing more and nothing less, I don't seek my self-worth out of gear. And I can live without sharing my joy with people I have never seen in my life.
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Post by drbill on Dec 9, 2020 13:16:34 GMT -6
BTW, just to be forthcoming - I've got nothing against plugins unless I have a better hardware choice - which I mostly do. I use em all the time. But when I need an 1176, LA, API EQ, Neve Pre, Tube saturation, VariMu, etc - I just use analog. No matter the hype in either direction I can get where I want almost instantly with my hardware, and it takes fiddling with plug ins. And I like to work fast. No plug-in stacks, no measurements, no worrying about aliasing or high sample rates or ?? Just hit a hardware insert and I'm there in seconds. Personally, I tend to not care for modeling mics, and I don't care for (most - I haven't tried all) modeling plugins. Where plugins shine for me is where they break new ground, not copying old worn out gear with worn out looking GUI's, and worn out numbers making every young AE think they are the same as the old gear with the same number and same look. I respect plugin manufacturers who break new ground tremendously. So....Sorry for the derailment mrholmes and folks. Now....... Back to plug-in LOVE!!!
With no word I said you can't use analog nor did I say that plug ins are the holy grail. I said they get damn good and you can create pro sounding music with them, and that I can see that some day it's maybe the only way for me.
I also do not get the fact why -we all- have the attitude to generalize things.
Can only speak for me: I don't want to limit my creativity, and I can hear in 2020 that both domains can work great.
Once again try the Sonnox Inflator with soft settings on the mix bus and you may, agree that it can replace a hardware piece.
Another thing comes to my mind. Potential SB customers are young, more narcissistic with this, and easily to offend when they seek their self-worth out of their fancy plug in collection.
I may, would not bash the use of plug ins too much, because you can lose potential customers. Even I have the SB still on my mind....
Overall:
Is all this important to me. No, my aim was to share my joy about a few good sounding tools. Nothing more and nothing less, I don't seek my self-worth out of gear. And I can live without sharing my joy with people I have never seen in my life.
mrholmes - first, I want to apologize for derailing your thread. So sorry. . My initial comment was to Ward , and not directed at you. After that, things kinda got out of hand. My comments are mine though, and I own them. As mentioned several times, I DO use plugins. I'm not a plug in hater. Many are as good or better than what could be done in the analog world. I do have to admit to getting frustrated at times with the constant "comparison" of plug ins to their original analog counterparts. It's inevitable I suppose. My experience does not show plug ins to be a replacement, and the "you just gotta believe" because AS, MB, etc, say so preaching does come off as tedious after awhile. . Especially if you have been so lucky as to own the originals and the plugins they emulate concurrently and be able to compare. As to your comments on the SB and it's potential customers : I really don't speak my opinions to fit into the marketing realm. I believe what I believe. My comments are spoken out of personal experience - not spoken to nurture future purchases. The SB can and does stand on it's own without me. I hope that at some point you get to at least try one to make up your own mind. Anyway, I appreciate you, and hope all is OK. Cheers, Bill
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Post by Guitar on Dec 9, 2020 17:27:48 GMT -6
I really like the Black Rooster plugins, they sort of impress me.
The VLA-3A was the first one that sort of made me go "wow." It sounds so good on so many things.
The Ashly compressor I can never tell if it's on or not, it's kind of fucked up. Just a really bad GUI. It seems to sound "OK."
The tape I DO use on whatever track, along side Oxide, sometimes Ampex, and the main tape is Softube Tape for me, that's on every channel. It doesn't always work but nothing does, I think it's good "as a tape plugin." Can hang with the rest of them.
The Pultec, I have just recently purchased, and haven't heavily compared to the UAD, or the RuleTec yet, but it seems to have a nice top end.
I'm not going to talk about specific hardware in a black rooster thread, but I do use hardware sometimes, I am on the spectrum Mark Williams pointed out, sort of heavily in the direction of plugins, but still with some chunky bits here in the racks and so on. I don't know if that's a bias, a judgement, or not but there it is.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 9, 2020 17:42:23 GMT -6
I don't know if this is a good idea or not but I was thinking it's possible RGO could have a "Plugins / Music Computers / Audio Interface" area if there's enough threads to go in one.
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Post by drbill on Dec 9, 2020 19:20:41 GMT -6
I don't know if this is a good idea or not but I was thinking it's possible RGO could have a "Plugins / Music Computers / Audio Interface" area if there's enough threads to go in one. That makes great sense to me!! More on point than a Bourbon forum. Or maybe not....
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