kcatthedog
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Gen 8040a
Nov 29, 2020 5:43:47 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 29, 2020 5:43:47 GMT -6
I see a used pair, reviews are good but some comment on the hen forward sound.
I have demoed gennies in the past and liked them but like the amphion 15, did find there was a mid push or something that wasn’t appealing to me.
I have a smaller treated room so am not concerned about using a sub.
The 8040a used, are as much as a new set of focal shape 6.5, which I had and liked in the past, wondering if the genny are now considered an older design now ?
Thx.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2020 12:04:33 GMT -6
Hard pass on Genelec and Focal. Amphion are okay with a 500w per channel into 8 ohms class ab amp or 1000w class d. The current 700w amphion class d amp should okay but the old ones were underpowered and could blow the tweeters.
Honestly just save for ATC or swing for cheaper passives. NHT, Bag End, diy kits. If you go active not ATC/Quested, get something replaceable. I like the current KRK 6.5” and Quested 8” more than any Focal and Genelec. They’re chewy, dry, dark and ruthless.
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kcatthedog
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Gen 8040a
Dec 1, 2020 4:31:13 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2020 4:31:13 GMT -6
In terms of the Quested suggestion, I have never heard them just read about them.
I see a used set of s7, which in my smaller room would likely be fine.
So, the descriptions of their balance , tight not hyped bass and detail etc., all true ?
They seem very well designed and the a/b amplifier also seem very well designed.
I have demoed and owned a large number of monitors, mostly 2 way, of all I appreciated the atc 25 the most sonically but also found , the way 3 way portray the mids, a good improvement.
Are Quested, kind of in the atc: British super well designed, engineered and excellent performance camp ?
Thx!
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kcatthedog
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Gen 8040a
Dec 1, 2020 4:42:27 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2020 4:42:27 GMT -6
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 1, 2020 9:14:31 GMT -6
Never tried the c3 but I have a pair of SuperOnes and I love them. They compliment my Adam A7's nicely. But it really depends what you're looking to get out of them. I wanted speakers that sounded "normal", not like "studio monitors". In that regard they contrast with my A7's in a way that make them both more usable.
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kcatthedog
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Gen 8040a
Dec 1, 2020 10:28:38 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2020 10:28:38 GMT -6
a good point, I had a7x’s and while I thought that ribbon tweeter refined, I wouldn’t call it natural sounding. Thx!
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ericn
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Gen 8040a
Dec 1, 2020 10:54:51 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Dec 1, 2020 10:54:51 GMT -6
When I sold my Genelec 1030’s almost 20 years ago I should have waited a year and bought Quested S-7’s instead of the Quested F11’s. The F11’s are not bad speakers they just were voiced to compete with the Genelecs and have a lot of that Genelec sound. The S7 is something special, I have only really listened twice, but both times with great vocals they just blow you away in the vocal range! They don’t go deep though. How good is the S7? The original plan for the Quested V3110 was an Series 3 way that would basically be an S7 and a 10in sub in the same cabinet, unfortunately it just couldn’t hit the price point.
Roger Quested’s original 3 way systems were built using ATC drivers, it was only after ATC started building monitors rather than being an OEM drivers that Roger started using Volt, Volt almost as low distortion as ATC, but we go deeper!
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Gen 8040a
Dec 1, 2020 14:14:18 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 14:14:18 GMT -6
In terms of the Quested suggestion, I have never heard them just read about them. I see a used set of s7, which in my smaller room would likely be fine. So, the descriptions of their balance , tight not hyped bass and detail etc., all true ? They seem very well designed and the a/b amplifier also seem very well designed. I have demoed and owned a large number of monitors, mostly 2 way, of all I appreciated the atc 25 the most sonically but also found , the way 3 way portray the mids, a good improvement. Are Quested, kind of in the atc: British super well designed, engineered and excellent performance camp ? Thx! For the three way Questeds, think ATCs with a much worse mid-dome. Atc makes the best one and the rest are all overdamped to kill modal Vibrations and sound slow. The current atc house tweeter is a lot better; for the quested tweeter think more “warmed over hi-fi speaker” tweeter that still has a good amount of detail. It’s closer to the Vifa scm25 tweeter than the ATC house one. The Questeds sound way bigger for the same size cab though. Quested really shines on the 8” woofer two ways that have way more bass than ATC and bigger cabs without suckout. The H108 and V2108. They’re some of the only 8” two ways that don’t suck along with the HS8 and LSR708. If you want a smaller woofer two way, the Quested S series are good but you’ll always be wanting to upgrade to the 8” Quested or the ATC 6.5” SCM20ASL if you ever hear them. There are some 6.5” competitors in the passive market that are Quested level but they don’t have the 8” driver and they’re still beneath the ATC SCM20ASL and they often cost more per pair! Proac SM100 costs the same as the H108 and passive SCM20 in the USA now and the Seas and Scanspeak drivers just suck vs the Volt woofer and ATC drivers despite what Gearslutz and ASR say!
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kcatthedog
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Gen 8040a
Dec 1, 2020 15:21:42 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2020 15:21:42 GMT -6
Gee Dan, stop beating around bush, gearhead up and tell us what you really think?
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 1, 2020 15:40:48 GMT -6
I see a used pair, reviews are good but some comment on the hen forward sound. I have demoed gennies in the past and liked them but like the amphion 15, did find there was a mid push or something that wasn’t appealing to me. I have a smaller treated room so am not concerned about using a sub. The 8040a used, are as much as a new set of focal shape 6.5, which I had and liked in the past, wondering if the genny are now considered an older design now ? Thx.
8040s use a Wave Guide it colors the sound.
I used them for a long time without not knowing what the problem was, the problem was the wave guide. I would rather buy a pair Ns10s...
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Gen 8040a
Dec 1, 2020 17:07:42 GMT -6
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 1, 2020 17:07:42 GMT -6
Has anyone had a chance to hear PSI speakers next to other high end speakers? I was on the fence about the a17 but I opted for an APS Klasik at the moment since it was 4 x’s cheaper. Figure it I don’t love it, I can always exchange for something else.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2020 17:17:56 GMT -6
When I auditioned the atc, and pmc, psi was the third monitor. I found them flat in comparison to the atc and the pmc, good but the bass wooly
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2020 17:24:58 GMT -6
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 1, 2020 18:50:59 GMT -6
That would be tempting if I had a room big enough for them.
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kcatthedog
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Gen 8040a
Dec 2, 2020 6:24:57 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 2, 2020 6:24:57 GMT -6
Am reading some reviews of the nht c3 passive sealed cabinet.
This comment doesn’t make senses to me: can someone explain ?
“Both speakers’ response at the listening position matched very well. Bass extension goes down to 50Hz, which surprised me. I perceived them as bass shy without subwoofers. Because of the C3’s shallow closed box bass rolloff, they can excite room modes that a vented speaker with a similar cutoff cannot. “
I am ok without the low bass and would appreciate the tight faster bass but how can a sealed box excite room modes more than a vented box: is that freq or energy dependent or a combo ?
Both the mid and tweeter are aluminum, this review found them detailed, flat and balanced a hair mid range forward in a good way to bring out vocals etc..
I thought aluminum had fallen a little out of fashion ?
Thoughts?
These monitors new are around a grand, which seems very good value for a very good 3 way?
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2020 10:23:53 GMT -6
Am reading some reviews of the nht c3 passive sealed cabinet. This comment doesn’t make senses to me: can someone explain ? “Both speakers’ response at the listening position matched very well. Bass extension goes down to 50Hz, which surprised me. I perceived them as bass shy without subwoofers. Because of the C3’s shallow closed box bass rolloff, they can excite room modes that a vented speaker with a similar cutoff cannot. “ I am ok without the low bass and would appreciate the tight faster bass but how can a sealed box excite room modes more than a vented box: is that freq or energy dependent or a combo ? Both the mid and tweeter are aluminum, this review found them detailed, flat and balanced a hair mid range forward in a good way to bring out vocals etc.. I thought aluminum had fallen a little out of fashion ? Thoughts? These monitors new are around a grand, which seems very good value for a very good 3 way? It’s a reviewer spouting something he read on the internet, weather in a sealed or vented or even open cabinet a speaker will excite room nodes.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 2, 2020 10:52:03 GMT -6
Ya, that’s what I thought. A sealed box should of designed properly have whatever extension it’s speaker has but sealed should be tighter maybe faster, the open, the characteristics of a ported box, maybe a little overhang, less clarity?
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ericn
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Gen 8040a
Dec 2, 2020 11:10:03 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2020 11:10:03 GMT -6
Ya, that’s what I thought. A sealed box should of designed properly have whatever extension it’s speaker has but sealed should be tighter maybe faster, the open, the characteristics of a ported box, maybe a little overhang, less clarity? m Nailed it l the ported will also go lower and the natural roll off will be faster.
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Gen 8040a
Dec 2, 2020 11:40:28 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 2, 2020 11:40:28 GMT -6
I have had both types: sealed and ported enclosures, and while there are lots of differences, I certainly noted and preferred that closed tighter sound and faster response .
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Gen 8040a
Dec 2, 2020 12:27:50 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2020 12:27:50 GMT -6
I have had both types: sealed and ported enclosures, and while there are lots of differences, I certainly noted and preferred that closed tighter sound and faster response . I think if you add in theory to your post I agree with the characterization s, but the thing is so much of this depends on the specific drive cabinet alignment..... One very important and often glossed over fact is that these days a fair amount of sealed cabinet monitors use an awful lot of DSP to extend the range, I no likely. So I guess don’t judge a speaker by it’s type of bass loading, judge it by its actual performance.
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Gen 8040a
Dec 2, 2020 12:39:51 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 2, 2020 12:39:51 GMT -6
Good point, but I likely have no way of demoing these monitors, so contextualize my sense of their performance based on what I can read, be advised and based on my own experiences with at least related designs ?
I like what I have read about the c3, was just struck by that one comment concerning the bass response.
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Post by svart on Dec 2, 2020 13:51:28 GMT -6
Hard pass on Genelec and Focal. Amphion are okay with a 500w per channel into 8 ohms class ab amp or 1000w class d. The current 700w amphion class d amp should okay but the old ones were underpowered and could blow the tweeters.Honestly just save for ATC or swing for cheaper passives. NHT, Bag End, diy kits. If you go active not ATC/Quested, get something replaceable. I like the current KRK 6.5” and Quested 8” more than any Focal and Genelec. They’re chewy, dry, dark and ruthless. Just for the record, "blowing" a speaker is a function of power and heat density for the coil's ability to sink heat and not melt the conductor, thus the driver being rated in Wattage rather than in voltage or current. "Underpowering" is exactly that, a reduction in wattage, a reduction in the heating of the coil and thus a reduction in the chance the coil will thermally destroy itself, which means that it's pure myth that a coil can be damaged by underpowering.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 14:50:23 GMT -6
Hard pass on Genelec and Focal. Amphion are okay with a 500w per channel into 8 ohms class ab amp or 1000w class d. The current 700w amphion class d amp should okay but the old ones were underpowered and could blow the tweeters.Honestly just save for ATC or swing for cheaper passives. NHT, Bag End, diy kits. If you go active not ATC/Quested, get something replaceable. I like the current KRK 6.5” and Quested 8” more than any Focal and Genelec. They’re chewy, dry, dark and ruthless. Just for the record, "blowing" a speaker is a function of power and heat density for the coil's ability to sink heat and not melt the conductor, thus the driver being rated in Wattage rather than in voltage or current. "Underpowering" is exactly that, a reduction in wattage, a reduction in the heating of the coil and thus a reduction in the chance the coil will thermally destroy itself, which means that it's pure myth that a coil can be damaged by underpowering. That's not necessarily true. An underpowered amp can easily destroy a speaker driver by distorting on transients. Class d amps distort much more than class ab amps when pushed. Look at the module spec sheets. Now most of them are hooked up to switching power supplies that can't deliver adequate current so they tend to be turned up more than the equivalent class ab. The cheap home theater chip amps powering entry little powered monitors can blow the drivers with extended normal use. I've heard a ton of blown JBL LSR 305s and KRK Rokits.
With an overpowered amp, only user error can blow the driver. This is a huge issue with small inefficient two way speakers like NHTs, Proacs, Amphions, and ATCs. ATC is the only one of those three that always sold and recommended adequate amplification.
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2020 15:12:06 GMT -6
Your both right and wrong, I can as easily blow up a 200watt speaker with 8 watts clipping as a 1000 watts of clean power it’s just going to fail in different ways. It’s also going to depend on the driver and how it’s loaded and the frequency range feeding the driver.
The advantage of all these class D plate amps is as much the DSP limiting that should kick in way before they start clipping or get near their rated power as well as that they won’t go down to DC.
Any speaker repair guy will tell you Heat, square waves and DC are all the primary faults for destroying a driver, DC less and less as time goes by.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 3, 2020 8:02:17 GMT -6
A curve ball idea.
Based on Jim Williams recommendation here a while back I bought a pair of the small emotiva b1 monitors.
I like their high end but like many small woofer two way find there are resonance and clarity issues in mid to low bass.
I can buy the small emotiva sub for $300, this would allow for splitting the low frequency to the sub taking them out of what was the woofer in the b1 but now becomes a mid driver, so the system becomes a 3 way system.
I would also have to do the normal sub set up process but for $300, this seems like a good low cost option ? If it doesn’t float my boat, could sell as a system , then shop for something better.
Thoughts ?
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