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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 26, 2020 14:06:14 GMT -6
Blockchain was developed to make digital currency (Bitcoin specifically) work, but it can be used for anything. It's essentially a secure open ledger, where each transaction is confirmed by the whole network and becomes a part of the next. This is going to affect nearly every industry. For example, I do some work in power. Part of the challenge of distributed power (like - user-level solar cells and batteries) is balancing their activity with the grid to keep frequency / voltage stable. With blockchain the grid can "ping" all known nodes and there can be a bid/ask to turn on/off, once a minute. Each on transaction would be matched to an off, for distributed native balancing, but working exactly how the financial markets work (every buyer is matched with a trader). These transactions are recorded in the blockchain, and then once a month or day or whatever there's a settle-up for the net power "sale" or "buy". Another way to do this is with smart contracts. It basically sets up a digital vending machine where the terms and content are provided by one signer, and anyone who interacts correctly with the contract (i.e., buy + sign) gets the object. There's a lot of nice here - it requires no middleman, its anonymous, it's secure, its efficient. The major tie-in to music is in this mode distribution. You can set up the digital vending machine for your content, anyone can buy, and as soon as the stream or purchase happens the artist is paid. Instantly, and directly. It can solve some of the trickiness of royalty splits, and there's even people trying to set up digital royalty trading markets - basically allowing artists to crowdfund content creation using the same free market mechanisms that businesses use to raise capital. Uh...you just explained that better than I ever could have. lol I would imagine the collection agencies (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) and labels/publishers/streamers (too much transparency) will fight this tooth and nail.
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Post by matt on Oct 26, 2020 19:27:11 GMT -6
I am not looking for sympathy... but I felt it would be good for me to share this....as I share good things about my music....and honestly I need to get it off my chest. At this point, it’s got to be purely about your love for it. Only for yourself. ^^^^ This, 100%. Me and the boys talk about this regularly, as in "wouldn't it be great to be known/popular/successful" etc, etc. Or, "we need to get more songs out". Every time it comes up (last Saturday on Zoom) I reply the same way- I do it for them and pretty much nothing else. I do it because they are life-long friends since high school, brothers from other mothers, and every hour and every penny I invest in all the things it takes to make music is because the time we've spent together (and will again when COVID is over) is precious to me. After six years of writing music we have barely one album of our own material, and it doesn't bother me. Some people paint to fulfill their artistic ambition. We make music, since we were 15 (we all just entered our 60s). Yes we are old, but we rock more than ever, and our passion is undiminished. I wouldn't have it any other way. Keep pushing Peter. There's a reason why we all keep making music in the face of intense adversity. We are musicians. What else would we do?
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 27, 2020 4:20:39 GMT -6
Most people are consumed with politics these days. The unrest that politics brings with it allows little time for enjoying art of any kind. This whole world is at a tipping point and music just doesn't factor in. It's not you, it's just the way things are.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 11:53:48 GMT -6
I've been in a similar boat with boxes of CDs that are now sitting in a closet barely selling at all. They sold ok when the artist was touring a bit, but I have tried to give copies away to friends only to be told "I don't have a CD player anymore." The artist was resistant to any streaming sites but years later I think the writing is on the wall. This isn't an issue of people no longer listening to music and no money being generated from it; it's an issue of the billions being generated by ad revenue on streaming platforms are not being fairly paid back to the artists. Here were some stats on the subject that I found interesting. "In the first months of 2020, audio consumption appeared to be well on its way to meeting or surpassing last year’s H1 year-over-year (y-o-y) growth of 15.7%, with year-to-date growth reaching 14.6% by March 12. Yet, between March 13 and July 2, total audio activity grew by only 6.2%, bringing total 2020 year-to-date growth to 9.4%. Total album sales dropped 18.1% y-o-y in H1, with much of the decline coming during the months following the start of the pandemic (-25.2%). Physical albums were clearly impacted by the pandemic. Pre-COVID-19 data shows growth of 4.6%, but sales plummeted 35.4% in the following months, resulting in a y-o-y decrease of 20.3% to 27.9 million. Digital album sales continued to decrease (-14.3%), albeit less than at the same time in 2019, with sales figures down by a smaller amount after the declaration of the pandemic, likely as consumers switched their album buying from physical to digital formats. Vinyl LP sales, which is included in the physical album sales data, remains the exception, growing by 11.2% y-o-y to reach 9.2 million sales. Although on-demand audio streaming seems to have been somewhat impacted by the pandemic, it is the driving force behind audio consumption growth, as it has been for the past few years. Indeed, while streaming did dip after the reported growth of 20.4% pre-COVID-19 to 13.8% post-COVID-19, H1 y-o-y growth remained in double-digits (16.2%), to reach 419.8 billion streams. Other data from Comscore shows that the time spent consuming streaming audio increased during COVID-19. It looks as though some of this increase was spent with Jazz and Classical music. While other genres of streaming audio such as Children’s (+57.4%), Country (+21.2%), Latin (+17.7%), R&B/Hip-Hop (+13.6%) and Pop (+13.5%) saw y-o-y growth overall during the first half of the year, only the soothing sounds of Jazz (+3.1%) and Classical (4.5%) saw growth in the post-COVID-19 months. Classical, in particular, went from a decrease of 1.3% in streams pre-COVID-19 to 8.7% growth after March 12." www.marketingcharts.com/industries/media-and-entertainment-114490
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 13:31:38 GMT -6
I've been in a similar boat with boxes of CDs that are now sitting in a closet barely selling at all. They sold ok when the artist was touring a bit, but I have tried to give copies away to friends only to be told "I don't have a CD player anymore." The artist was resistant to any streaming sites but years later I think the writing is on the wall. This isn't an issue of people no longer listening to music and no money being generated from it; it's an issue of the billions being generated by ad revenue on streaming platforms are not being fairly paid back to the artists. Here were some stats on the subject that I found interesting. "In the first months of 2020, audio consumption appeared to be well on its way to meeting or surpassing last year’s H1 year-over-year (y-o-y) growth of 15.7%, with year-to-date growth reaching 14.6% by March 12. Yet, between March 13 and July 2, total audio activity grew by only 6.2%, bringing total 2020 year-to-date growth to 9.4%. Total album sales dropped 18.1% y-o-y in H1, with much of the decline coming during the months following the start of the pandemic (-25.2%). Physical albums were clearly impacted by the pandemic. Pre-COVID-19 data shows growth of 4.6%, but sales plummeted 35.4% in the following months, resulting in a y-o-y decrease of 20.3% to 27.9 million. Digital album sales continued to decrease (-14.3%), albeit less than at the same time in 2019, with sales figures down by a smaller amount after the declaration of the pandemic, likely as consumers switched their album buying from physical to digital formats. Vinyl LP sales, which is included in the physical album sales data, remains the exception, growing by 11.2% y-o-y to reach 9.2 million sales. Although on-demand audio streaming seems to have been somewhat impacted by the pandemic, it is the driving force behind audio consumption growth, as it has been for the past few years. Indeed, while streaming did dip after the reported growth of 20.4% pre-COVID-19 to 13.8% post-COVID-19, H1 y-o-y growth remained in double-digits (16.2%), to reach 419.8 billion streams. Other data from Comscore shows that the time spent consuming streaming audio increased during COVID-19. It looks as though some of this increase was spent with Jazz and Classical music. While other genres of streaming audio such as Children’s (+57.4%), Country (+21.2%), Latin (+17.7%), R&B/Hip-Hop (+13.6%) and Pop (+13.5%) saw y-o-y growth overall during the first half of the year, only the soothing sounds of Jazz (+3.1%) and Classical (4.5%) saw growth in the post-COVID-19 months. Classical, in particular, went from a decrease of 1.3% in streams pre-COVID-19 to 8.7% growth after March 12." www.marketingcharts.com/industries/media-and-entertainment-114490The labels partially fund Spotify. Spotify is able to appear to be in the red by paying executive millions of dollars in bonuses despite not turning a profit. There has to be some kind of Hollywood accounting at work. II never understood why any independent artists in a genre not pop or pop hip hop would put their music on Spotify over just putting it on Bandcamp. I know a people who make a a hundred to few thousand dollars with bandcamp release and offering a cd or cdr version with download. Most of the initial purchasers pay a little more to get the CD. If the cd is priced right and you grow to hate the record, you can sell the cd and be out less than if you bought the digital download. The CD or CDR is important because it gives the buyer something tangible. The criticism about Amazon and Netflix not making a profit is an invalid comparison. Amazon paid their suppliers. Netflix pays for productions and buys the rights to shows. Spotify does not pay beforehand except for Joe Rogan and the payments to the artists do not come from them buying the rights like cable syndication but from royalty payouts that go contrary to what was signed for the record, which could’ve been decades ago. Even labels basically pay beforehand because they all pull so much Hollywood accounting (white collar crime and fraud) that the advance is the payment for the record. Some of the bigger indie labels are the worst of the worst and had major distribution or were controlled by majors at one point. They will fraudulently claim rights that were never signed away and then illicitly distribute, repress, and stream the records. Even some of the bootlegs floating around were pressed by the label from the tapes because they didn’t want to pay royalties. Or they would bootleg copies in other territories, do “trades” with their controlled but separate legal entity distributor so they didn’t count as sales, remainder pressings to sell the rest of the lot without paying royalties and then repress the record, etc. Now you can find multiple versions of records online from different labels and only one (or none) holds the current rights. Some of the small labels even lie about having sold the rights in spite of photographs and contracts signed by their lawyers too.
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Post by drbill on Oct 27, 2020 14:05:14 GMT -6
Lest people loose hope and actually BELIEVE there is no money to be made in music anymore......
"According to a new report by Music Business Worldwide, major labels raked in $1 million an hour off streaming in 2019 alone."
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Post by stratboy on Oct 27, 2020 14:20:12 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Oct 27, 2020 15:53:18 GMT -6
Lest people loose hope and actually BELIEVE there is no money to be made in music anymore...... "According to a new report by Music Business Worldwide, major labels raked in $1 million an hour off streaming in 2019 alone." BTW, that's roughly 9 BILLION a year. I think there's plenty of money floating around in the music biz. It just doesn't seem to be ending up in the right hands.....
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 27, 2020 17:51:16 GMT -6
Lest people loose hope and actually BELIEVE there is no money to be made in music anymore...... "According to a new report by Music Business Worldwide, major labels raked in $1 million an hour off streaming in 2019 alone." BTW, that's roughly 9 BILLION a year. I think there's plenty of money floating around in the music biz. It just doesn't seem to be ending up in the right hands..... If you hold stocks in all major steeaming services as a major label you make sure that the majority of the $$$ is not for indipendent artist. Spotify is not lying when they say that more and more indipendent artist make an income from streaming.... but its still as rare as the sudden world success when we were young....
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Post by matt@IAA on Oct 27, 2020 18:50:33 GMT -6
BTW, that's roughly 9 BILLION a year. I think there's plenty of money floating around in the music biz. It just doesn't seem to be ending up in the right hands..... Sounds like a big number but there are two problems. One, it is down big time from its peak in the late 90s, so the pie is smaller - 30-70% smaller, depending on how you count. And second, the pie is sliced up between a LOT more people.
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Post by drbill on Oct 27, 2020 19:06:10 GMT -6
BTW, that's roughly 9 BILLION a year. I think there's plenty of money floating around in the music biz. It just doesn't seem to be ending up in the right hands..... Sounds like a big number but there are two problems. One, it is down big time from its peak in the late 90s, so the pie is smaller - 30-70% smaller, depending on how you count. And second, the pie is sliced up between a LOT more people. It should be noted that that's only the streaming royalty for labels. Add on to that artist streaming royalties which are only a bit less, merch, live gigs, publishing, writers royalties, sync's, performance royalties, neighboring rights royalties, etc., etc.. There is money out there. Much of it still laying on the table waiting to be picked up. (Just learning neighboring rights here, and in 2 quarters I've hit a solid 5 figures.) But it's a new ball game, and you have to learn to play by new rules. I'm not saying that it doesn't suck - it does. But life and business is what you make it, and it's not as dismal as it seems at first glance if you learn the game. You're right about the piece of cake/pie being sliced in exponentially more pieces, BUT - most of those pieces are trying to compete in the game with a 1990's to early 2000's mentality - and it's not going to work. You've got to think different. Add to that, that there's so much crap out there, so if you have quality artistic integrity like wiz, you're going to immediately jump up above a large part of the dross.
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Post by matt@IAA on Oct 27, 2020 19:29:45 GMT -6
Yes, I agree with you. But the industry as a whole is around half the size it was in 1999, with what seems like a hundred times as many hands in the pot.
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Post by drbill on Oct 27, 2020 19:34:16 GMT -6
Yes, I agree with you. But the industry as a whole is around half the size it was in 1999, with what seems like a hundred times as many hands in the pot. I think most artists / engineers / studio's, etc. would be thrilled to be making half as much as they did in 1999. Personally, I'm making exponentially more and I'm not even working in LA anymore. I guess I'm an outlier, but I've made a career out of switching things up, reinventing myself over half a dozen times, trying new things, and incessantly working my a$$ off. I'm staying optimistic, cause the other options are toxic for creativity, and once you loose that, you might as well hang it up.
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 27, 2020 22:45:03 GMT -6
Yes, I agree with you. But the industry as a whole is around half the size it was in 1999, with what seems like a hundred times as many hands in the pot. I think most artists / engineers / studio's, etc. would be thrilled to be making half as much as they did in 1999. Personally, I'm making exponentially more and I'm not even working in LA anymore. I guess I'm an outlier, but I've made a career out of switching things up, reinventing myself over half a dozen times, trying new things, and incessantly working my a$$ off. I'm staying optimistic, cause the other options are toxic for creativity, and once you loose that, you might as well hang it up. Everybody including you had thier Wiz phase. Its hard to stay optimistic ... seeing one of my songs was used for a documentary and for thousands of streams german GEMA payed me 50 bucks. Come on.
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Post by drbill on Oct 28, 2020 0:03:02 GMT -6
I think most artists / engineers / studio's, etc. would be thrilled to be making half as much as they did in 1999. Personally, I'm making exponentially more and I'm not even working in LA anymore. I guess I'm an outlier, but I've made a career out of switching things up, reinventing myself over half a dozen times, trying new things, and incessantly working my a$$ off. I'm staying optimistic, cause the other options are toxic for creativity, and once you loose that, you might as well hang it up. Everybody including you had thier Wiz phase. Its hard to stay optimistic ... seeing one of my songs was used for a documentary and for thousands of streams german GEMA payed me 50 bucks. Come on. No one ever said staying optimistic is easy. It isn't. If being in music was easy and staying optimistic was simple, everyone would be doing it successfully. And it's fairly obvious that optimism is in short supply these days.... On the placement : Congrats. I know you probably think of it as a failure, but that's a decent payout for one placement. One song and one placement is not a catalog and not a career - but it's a good start. Over the last couple decades, I've accumulated thousands of placements that pay from $0.01 to hundreds per quarter. It's a numbers game - in your scenario, 10 songs is $500, 100 songs is $5,000. 1000 songs is $50,000. IME - it's not about landing a coke commercial for $100k, it's about the long game. Numbers and long term placements is the name of the game in sync if that's what you want to do.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 28, 2020 0:05:22 GMT -6
Yes, I agree with you. But the industry as a whole is around half the size it was in 1999, with what seems like a hundred times as many hands in the pot. I think most artists / engineers / studio's, etc. would be thrilled to be making half as much as they did in 1999. Personally, I'm making exponentially more and I'm not even working in LA anymore. I guess I'm an outlier, but I've made a career out of switching things up, reinventing myself over half a dozen times, trying new things, and incessantly working my a$$ off. I'm staying optimistic, cause the other options are toxic for creativity, and once you loose that, you might as well hang it up. I hear you Bill and in theory I don't disagree--I've done a lot of career reinventing over the years. But should every hardworking, talented musician and AE be asked to constantly reinvent the wheel and create their own career model? Not every artist has an entrepreneur's brain. Did we ask Steve Jobs or Jack Welch to write a symphony or mix a hit record? It really helps to by savvy with the business end of things. But until the system allows artists to focus on being artists a lot of talented people will never succeed--or worse yet, never even try.
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Post by drbill on Oct 28, 2020 0:24:02 GMT -6
But until the system allows artists to focus on being artists a lot of talented people will never succeed--or worse yet, never even try. Indeed. But without trying, there can be no failure. And without failure there can be no success. Each man has to follow his own heart, make his own best plan....and roll the dice. It would be short sighted and almost criminal to casually recommend this biz to anyone just starting out, but it is also just as short sighted to try to dissuade those whose destiny is unknown and whose determination is unbridled.... It's kind of how it always was...and probably always will be. Only different. Gotta roll with the times. My dad always taught me that in bad economic times, hard work and innovation make huge inroads. We can choose to fold, or think different. I have no idea how the game is going to shake out in the end.... Time will tell. But if you don't pony up and play, it's a guarantee you will never win.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 28, 2020 7:19:02 GMT -6
The streamers still whine about not being able to turn a profit...and that’s with paying out only 10% to the creators. But when an impression is worth (supposedly) .005 cents, that is only .0005 cents split between the writers and publishers. That’s $500 per million. Got a publisher? Now you have at least $250. Got a co—writer? No you’ve got $125. How many independent artists ever even sniff one million impressions?
This is not a living wage for intellectual property. Especially when songwriters (in the US) don’t have the right to negotiate pricing or the ability to withhold their music. The owners of the masters control that. (Labels)
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Post by wiz on Oct 28, 2020 21:03:17 GMT -6
Thanks again for the support guys.... All picked up and dusted off, and back into it. Recut an old tune, Johnkenn this is Logics Vintage organ in use....its good enough till something better comes along... certainly in my fingers....I have to overdub the rotary speaker speed changes. Words Fall Down Like RainCheers Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 28, 2020 22:17:28 GMT -6
Thanks again for the support guys.... All picked up and dusted off, and back into it. Recut an old tune, Johnkenn this is Logics Vintage organ in use....its good enough till something better comes along... certainly in my fingers....I have to overdub the rotary speaker speed changes. Words Fall Down Like Rain
Cheers Wiz Sounds awesome man! Love that first verse. So just my opinion, but I think steel would really take that over the top.
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Post by wiz on Oct 28, 2020 23:13:30 GMT -6
Thanks again for the support guys.... All picked up and dusted off, and back into it. Recut an old tune, Johnkenn this is Logics Vintage organ in use....its good enough till something better comes along... certainly in my fingers....I have to overdub the rotary speaker speed changes. Words Fall Down Like Rain
Cheers Wiz Sounds awesome man! Love that first verse. So just my opinion, but I think steel would really take that over the top. Thanks mate...can u recommend a steel player?
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 29, 2020 6:42:46 GMT -6
Sounds awesome man! Love that first verse. So just my opinion, but I think steel would really take that over the top. Thanks mate...can u recommend a steel player? www.andyellison.com/devinmalone.com/
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Post by OtisGreying on Oct 29, 2020 14:35:27 GMT -6
Lest people loose hope and actually BELIEVE there is no money to be made in music anymore...... "According to a new report by Music Business Worldwide, major labels raked in $1 million an hour off streaming in 2019 alone." Exactly. IMO, there is much more money in music available to many independent creators now than there was in the last twenty years. Streaming has essentially abolished illegal downloads and my entire circle of friends pay 10$ a month for their music, it used to be my entire circle of friends paid 0 and illegally downloaded.
Also, the fact is: more creators today have more stake in their masters than in the last 20 years where you had to sign everything away to get any airtime whatsoever, because of streaming.
It's just a matter of being a part of the type of music that is trending to some degree: Trap, Pop, Bedroom pop, Indie folk, Indie pop, peaceful piano, guitar, ambience (things that get on playlists) this is key.
You're music needs to meet a category that is being categorized into the current playlists to some degree, spotify playlists is modern day radio, and the *#1 point of exposure*, and many independent artists or artists with fairly small independent labels are very much featured in them and going strong. The difference today is that marketing online plays a bigger role than ever because everything and everyone relies so heavily on the internet, so if you're releasing music and expecting a result, you need a bigger plan than just placing your stuff in a local record store, the majority of people who were going to the record store to find music are now finding it surfing Spotify. Things change
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Post by ericn on Oct 29, 2020 14:41:27 GMT -6
The streamers still whine about not being able to turn a profit...and that’s with paying out only 10% to the creators. But when an impression is worth (supposedly) .005 cents, that is only .0005 cents split between the writers and publishers. That’s $500 per million. Got a publisher? Now you have at least $250. Got a co—writer? No you’ve got $125. How many independent artists ever even sniff one million impressions? This is not a living wage for intellectual property. Especially when songwriters (in the US) don’t have the right to negotiate pricing or the ability to withhold their music. The owners of the masters control that. (Labels) Part of the problem here is scale, in the age of Streaming where we own less and less we no longer have any purchases of 1. Now myself included rent so to speak so the entire scheme is based on each time I decide to rent each song. Most of us probably don’t play a track or album enough to justify the old school payments based off n the new world schedule, but we could all afford to eat on it. I just saw an article talking about the Biden campaign paying $2.50 per 1000 impressions and I couldn’t help but think some small market radio station sales guy was either laughing his ass off or throwing up based on his numbers and what he charged. See that’s the thing we were all sold this whole bill of goods that the internet and streaming offered the possibility of these huge numbers numbers, they never materialized but like Las Vegas the music biz isn’t about what’s real, it’s about what could be. The solution? Everybody gets to right a Taylor Swift single? Strike? Hell if I know, but I do know this with COVID and the disappearance of live gigs with the revenue they brought it in more and musicians are taking a hard look at how this all pays out and nobody is happy.
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Post by OtisGreying on Oct 29, 2020 14:42:05 GMT -6
The streamers still whine about not being able to turn a profit...and that’s with paying out only 10% to the creators. But when an impression is worth (supposedly) .005 cents, that is only .0005 cents split between the writers and publishers. That’s $500 per million. Got a publisher? Now you have at least $250. Got a co—writer? No you’ve got $125. How many independent artists ever even sniff one million impressions? This is not a living wage for intellectual property. Especially when songwriters (in the US) don’t have the right to negotiate pricing or the ability to withhold their music. The owners of the masters control that. (Labels) Many do. There are also many independent labels that indie artists are under that do pretty well. With streaming its all about playlists. If you're not making music that can fit into a playlist that people are interested in, if you're music is too different or old sounding, you're gonna have a bad time. That's where the streaming market is today. "Bedroom pop" for example. There are countless bedroom pop/laptop producer artists who make this shoegaze shit and they're making tons of money because that's whats "in" and trendy as far as streaming goes. But if you're on the other side of that and not within the margin of what's popular right now or being playlisted, you're not getting any help from Spotify and you're probably not gonna make anything.
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