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Post by drbill on Oct 23, 2020 9:46:52 GMT -6
While I agree overall with your thoughts Matt, there is an intangible esthetic that comes into play. "Art" and "artistic endeavor" are often not easily quantified, and for many, it becomes about more than just $$$. Consider the bedroom studio that's buying $5000 mics? Or the guitarist who buys a $10k guitar. Etc.. If they were following the "it's only about money" philosophy, they would be buying an SM7 or MXL mic only and a Chinese cloned Les Paul. There is more going on. It's complex, and it plays not only into pocketbooks, but also into the experience and the creativity invoked. One of my clients comes to mind. Film composer / songwriter. He will consistently go "over budget" and technically loose money to create his vision of what the music should be. Even though the budget will not support it. Short term - financial nonsense. Long term - it's worked very well for his career.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 10:25:38 GMT -6
A lot of those bedroom musicians and apartment guitarists with expensive instruments and mics are ridiculous cheap for mixing or mastering yet need the most done and complain the most. Their recording issues are only exceeded by people recording live instruments who went to local studios that mainly do sample based music with vocal tracks or voice over work.
The COVID rise of cell phone recordings makes it worse. Ever heard a guy mic an amp with an iPhone? Now I have.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 23, 2020 10:37:53 GMT -6
The COVID rise of cell phone recordings makes it worse. Ever heard a guy mic an amp with an iPhone? Now I have. yeah....just checked out someone's 'record' on spotify, pretty sure it's a phone on a chair closer to the acoustic than the vocal. The average voice memo sounds better.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 23, 2020 10:39:32 GMT -6
Let’s not forget that the biggest artist of last year was a “bedroom musician.”
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Post by Guitar on Oct 23, 2020 11:53:20 GMT -6
A lot of those bedroom musicians and apartment guitarists with expensive instruments and mics are ridiculous cheap for mixing or mastering yet need the most done and complain the most. Their recording issues are only exceeded by people recording live instruments who went to local studios that mainly do sample based music with vocal tracks or voice over work. The COVID rise of cell phone recordings makes it worse. Ever heard a guy mic an amp with an iPhone? Now I have. There's a single release on bandcamp that some people I know put out that was, for reasons I don't understand, recorded on three iphones rather than the studio gear they have. I was surprised at how decently good it sounded. I guess for that sort of no-fi, punk rock, house show, I know everyone here thing, it can surprisingly work. I guess anything could work is the real answer. This is sort of off topic, but if you could try to get that person to pay for your better sound reproduction, I'm not sure how far that conversation would go. I don't know if you mess with any "black metal" people but what most of us would call bad recording seems to be an inherent part of the genre, as far as I can tell. Probably the same thing for a "noise" artist.
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Post by Ward on Oct 23, 2020 12:05:20 GMT -6
Let’s not forget that the biggest artist of last year was a “bedroom musician.” So... you're a tough guy.
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Post by ericn on Oct 23, 2020 13:13:24 GMT -6
Let’s not forget that the biggest artist of last year was a “bedroom musician.” And it sounds like it! We exist at an interesting intersection of art and commerce, if you forget what was the traditional most valuable asset the room, the cost of entry is quite low for an industry that promises fame and fortune. The problem is this has lead to a very crowded market where many have given away their art in hopes of exposure, they never realize that devalues all of us and only makes it harder to gain one’s fortune. We should be able to distinguish the value we add but unfortunately those who can distinguish/ care seams to plummet as time goes by. Many fall into the trap of thinking it isn’t their talent that holds them back but the tools, they chase unobtaninum putting the gold even further out of reach.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 23, 2020 13:13:27 GMT -6
Let’s not forget that the biggest artist of last year was a “bedroom musician.” So... you're a tough guy. Huh?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 13:16:10 GMT -6
Let’s not forget that the biggest artist of last year was a “bedroom musician.” Yes and there’s gross early reflections, weird high end, and aliasing everywhere due to the choice of mic and Logic plugs. Yet they gave it a Grammy. That’s like giving post Cliff Burton Metallica a Grammy for their drum sound. What? I mean trash can and paint bucket street drummers are cool and all but all the coffee can snares on heavy metal records are pathetic.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 23, 2020 13:18:14 GMT -6
So... you're a tough guy. Huh? He meant "bad guy", I assume, but he's not hip. 😂😂
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Post by Guitar on Oct 23, 2020 13:22:34 GMT -6
So... you're a tough guy. Huh? Like it pretty rough guy, (I'm the Bad Guy)
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 23, 2020 13:45:00 GMT -6
Let’s not forget that the biggest artist of last year was a “bedroom musician.” Yes and there’s gross early reflections, weird high end, and aliasing everywhere due to the choice of mic and Logic plugs. Yet they gave it a Grammy. That’s like giving post Cliff Burton Metallica a Grammy for their drum sound. What? I mean trash can and paint bucket street drummers are cool and all but all the coffee can snares on heavy metal records are pathetic. Look, I’m on the side of quality fidelity. Why I else would I hang out here? But I’m also on the side of the means of production being accessible to musicians to whatever degree they want to utilize it. Since the beginning of recorded music great art has overcome and outweighed technical deficiencies and it continues to do so. It’s beautiful when musical genius combines with technical perfection. But I guess I react a bit when snobbish terms like “bedroom musician” are used.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 14:36:59 GMT -6
Yes and there’s gross early reflections, weird high end, and aliasing everywhere due to the choice of mic and Logic plugs. Yet they gave it a Grammy. That’s like giving post Cliff Burton Metallica a Grammy for their drum sound. What? I mean trash can and paint bucket street drummers are cool and all but all the coffee can snares on heavy metal records are pathetic. Look, I’m on the side of quality fidelity. Why I else would I hang out here? But I’m also on the side of the means of production being accessible to musicians to whatever degree they want to utilize it. Since the beginning of recorded music great art has overcome and outweighed technical deficiencies and it continues to do so. It’s beautiful when musical genius combines with technical perfection. But I guess I react a bit when snobbish terms like “bedroom musician” are used. The guy who fixed it up must’ve done a bang up job but I can’t unhear it but hey I think lots of portastudio rap and black metal sounds awesome so what do I know
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Post by Ward on Oct 24, 2020 9:26:35 GMT -6
So... you're a tough guy. Huh? Billie Eilish: So you're a tough guy Like it really rough guy Just can't get enough guy Chest always so puffed guy I'm that bad type Make your mama sad type Make-your-girlfriend-mad type Might seduce your dad type I'm the bad guy (Duh) I'm the bad guy
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Post by reddirt on Oct 24, 2020 16:57:04 GMT -6
My friend just did a quick throw up of a tune on his i-phone with acoustic and vox, he jagged a very good balance and it has vibe; the audio quality is good enough to present that vibe and the quality of his performance; if he'd tried to do it into my set up, we would probably have over-thought it and while it would have been clean it would most likely have lacked, so as i get older I stop worrying too much as long as it works. Cheers
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 24, 2020 19:32:12 GMT -6
My friend just did a quick throw up of a tune on his i-phone with acoustic and vox, he jagged a very good balance and it has vibe; the audio quality is good enough to present that vibe and the quality of his performance; if he'd tried to do it into my set up, we would probably have over-thought it and while it would have been clean it would most likely have lacked, so as i get older I stop worrying too much as long as it works. Cheers I think "lo fi digital" can live side by side with high end professional recording and one doesn't have to cancel out the other. I do understand the frustration though of hearing Grammy winning records that are deficient. Maybe AES should start giving out awards for best albums that combine art and engineering, and leave the Grammys to the whims of the pop culture.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 24, 2020 19:42:57 GMT -6
Remember when there used to be a Grammy for best album cover?
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Post by matt@IAA on Oct 24, 2020 19:49:48 GMT -6
While I agree overall with your thoughts Matt, there is an intangible esthetic that comes into play. "Art" and "artistic endeavor" are often not easily quantified, and for many, it becomes about more than just $$$. Consider the bedroom studio that's buying $5000 mics? Or the guitarist who buys a $10k guitar. Etc.. If they were following the "it's only about money" philosophy, they would be buying an SM7 or MXL mic only and a Chinese cloned Les Paul. There is more going on. It's complex, and it plays not only into pocketbooks, but also into the experience and the creativity invoked. One of my clients comes to mind. Film composer / songwriter. He will consistently go "over budget" and technically loose money to create his vision of what the music should be. Even though the budget will not support it. Short term - financial nonsense. Long term - it's worked very well for his career. Sure. There’s business, then there is art. If you’re going to do art, that’s fine. But don’t expect profit.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2020 20:49:12 GMT -6
Remember when there used to be a Grammy for best album cover? Still exists now they just call it Best Recording Packaging.
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Post by drbill on Oct 24, 2020 21:26:01 GMT -6
While I agree overall with your thoughts Matt, there is an intangible esthetic that comes into play. "Art" and "artistic endeavor" are often not easily quantified, and for many, it becomes about more than just $$$. Consider the bedroom studio that's buying $5000 mics? Or the guitarist who buys a $10k guitar. Etc.. If they were following the "it's only about money" philosophy, they would be buying an SM7 or MXL mic only and a Chinese cloned Les Paul. There is more going on. It's complex, and it plays not only into pocketbooks, but also into the experience and the creativity invoked. One of my clients comes to mind. Film composer / songwriter. He will consistently go "over budget" and technically loose money to create his vision of what the music should be. Even though the budget will not support it. Short term - financial nonsense. Long term - it's worked very well for his career. Sure. There’s business, then there is art. If you’re going to do art, that’s fine. But don’t expect profit. You CAN profit at art. At least that's been my experience. That said, I wouldn't be buying property and building a recording studio in 2020 with a traditional business plan.
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Post by matt@IAA on Oct 25, 2020 10:41:34 GMT -6
Of course you can profit at art, sorry I wasnt clear. You can but I wouldn’t expect it. By virtue of saying - this is art, this is not driven by profit motive - you shouldn’t expect profit to fall out. They may be mutually exclusive - what you need to do for art may not be financially successful. And that’s ok.
Like a song I like says, dreams cost money but money costs some dreams.
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Post by Ward on Oct 26, 2020 5:21:20 GMT -6
Sure. There’s business, then there is art. If you’re going to do art, that’s fine. But don’t expect profit. You CAN profit at art. At least that's been my experience. That said, I wouldn't be buying property and building a recording studio in 2020 with a traditional business plan. You can't tell jeremygillespie and me that . . . we live in hope of a new utopia.
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on Oct 26, 2020 14:23:06 GMT -6
Let’s not forget that the biggest artist of last year was a “bedroom musician.” Yes and there’s gross early reflections, weird high end, and aliasing everywhere due to the choice of mic and Logic plugs. Yet they gave it a Grammy. That’s like giving post Cliff Burton Metallica a Grammy for their drum sound. What? I mean trash can and paint bucket street drummers are cool and all but all the coffee can snares on heavy metal records are pathetic. you gotta watch this breakdown of their mixing. Matt Weiss is a KILLER engineer (Akon's dude) and breaks down WHY they won the Grammy for best engineering. If Rob went too clean, he would have killed the record. They were rewarding him for knowing how to hold back, not cuz he turned in a "GearSlutz/RGO" approved dime of a mix. Any way you slice it, that music video gives me CHILLLSSS!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 14:24:17 GMT -6
The other problem is just upkeep. I can’t afford to blow even cheap gear on these cheapskates. If the DBX, FMR, ART, or KRK stuff breaks for whatever reason, I’ve almost lost money repairing or replacing it. That’s why I’m always on the lookout for durable sacrificial gear. I’ve been burned with the current Harman (JBL, DBX, Crown etc) and Gibson (KRK and Tascam) gear too much to ever use their cheap stuff again. The plate amps in the powered monitors and the drive cores can distort so much and fry the drivers. Gibson has even worse problems.
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