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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 15:02:01 GMT -6
The groupdiy weren’t paying the original designers and manufacturers. This ain’t a clone. Better is not a clone. The Retro 176 is cooler than the original. Capi can be more “API” than contemporary API. The diy 1176 can be more similar to the originals than the ua 1176ln. They can beat the UA repros. SSL is still the king of SSL but there are a bunch of different flavors now with more bass. Daking is a cleaned up Trident and rules hard.
Who are you? Paul “The cloners should all be burned alive” Wolff? Even Paul Wolff helped out CAPI after he sold API.
Audioscape is not Behringer or Warm. If they recreated some of the unobtainium gear I want and made it more maintainable and flexible, I would sell a ton of stuff and buy it. There is stuff that needs to be cloned. Half of us are kicking ourselves for not buying the Helios recreations years ago. They’re worth bank now and the UAD and Waves aren’t close because they’re not UA hardware and Kramer Tape was the coolest thing in the Kramer bundle.
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Post by jsteiger on Oct 18, 2020 15:19:05 GMT -6
Even Paul Wolff helped out CAPI after he sold API. Never with circuit/design related things. More inspiration and teaming up for some trade shows than anything else. (Sorry to hijack)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2020 15:37:09 GMT -6
if it's better, its better because peter purpose made it better. all they did was photocopy his work. they used the exact same layout for pete's sake! they used the same way to mount the EL panel, the same front panel and pot placement. they didnt clone the original, they just cloned a clone. i didnt come here to start a flame war, i just observed thats a steep price for two commercialized diy designs with no-name transformers. if you want to pay top dollar for that be my guest. hey, maybe im off base and they just happened to come up with the same answers by themselvs. if so i apologize and i take it all back. just a big coincidence and misunderstanding. we can all use our eyes to see that they are the same. maybe they can clarify whether they copied his design or not. You may well be right, but unless you have seen the inside of this model it’s pure conjecture. The other point of group DIY designs of vintage gear being just as much of a rip off is just as much as valid as your argument. Just because something is in a kit form if it’s being sold it’s just as much of a commercial item. The problem and most of the Group DIY designers of clones know this, as much as there is a gentleman’s agreement in the DIY community, they have no legal leg to stand on if somebody copies their work of cloning a vintage design because the original design isn’t theirs.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2020 16:24:32 GMT -6
So, Joe, what’s your real issue , as you are kinda taking over the thread and with respect, I want to know about the piece of gear, if you catch my drift.
If you want to tilt against the wind of living in clone world with lapsed patents etc., why not start a new thread about that ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 16:34:32 GMT -6
UA isn’t making LA3A or LA4 anymore. They’re coding mostly good but not great plugins and having a Chinese OEM make very usable but by no means exceptional interfaces for them. The la2a and 1176 recreations aren’t the same as the originals. Parts are oop. If not for gear lust and willing to take ideas and improve them, we wouldn’t have lots of classic products. The clones also fuel sales of the real things when people realize that the cheap clones are cheap for a reason. Clones and dismembered consoles have led to classics being made available outside of consoles costing tens of thousands of dollars.
Without them, you wouldn’t even have access to the real thing without having a tech rack it. Exactly like a ton of classic gear that’s not popular anymore, better than many classics and clones, and the intact modules can’t be easily used in modern setups without mods and power supplies.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2020 16:49:58 GMT -6
they post plenty of pictures of the insides i dont care about people cloning. cloning isnt the same thing as taking the complete design work from someone else and passing it off as your own. the la3a isnt a 500 series. peter purpose put it into 500 series. they didnt clone a la3a they cloned peters design. thats why theirs doesnt look anything like an la3a but it is a read ringer for peters 500 series design. same thing they did with fripholms TG1 and called it their d comp. then they took peters design, put it in a louder than liftoff chassis and call it something new. original design content 0%. at least they're paying louder than liftoff for what they're using. give them all your money, i dont care. but at least know what your paying for. And Peter cloned a UA design, I don’t see a Putman family member saying anything!
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Post by audioscape on Oct 18, 2020 17:22:11 GMT -6
Our team makes ALL of our pcb designs, front panel layouts and spend countless hours sourcing the right components that make each product sound the way it should. Anyone in the audio industry knows who winds our xfos and can attest that they are nothing less than top notch. And that is just the beginning of the journey. We then employ local audio engineers here on site to build these custom designs, a lot of happy people here making these units, it really is a cool place to be. I understand how some people can be upset in today’s climate but I feel like the anger is misguided and misdirected. It’s quite unfortunate. Accusing someone of theft with no basis in facts or footing in reality is extremely disheartening. If you have any real concerns please feel free to email or call anytime. 👍 - Chris
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2020 17:54:22 GMT -6
uh huh. but did you start with peter's design or not? how about fripholm's? Did they start with Putnam’s? Here is where this gets interesting and where I would be careful: nobody knows or will say if the sale of UA by Harmon included IP, if it didn’t Samsung owns it all and they have good IP lawyers.
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Post by Ward on Oct 18, 2020 18:32:50 GMT -6
uh huh. but did you start with peter's design or not? how about fripholm's? So . . . what's your real name and who do you work for? i'm sorry for the personal question, I'd just like to know the name of the argumentative douche-nozzle pretending to ask real questions.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2020 18:47:32 GMT -6
Ya Joe, you blow in here and disrupt this thread and grind your axe, please give it a rest.
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Post by drbill on Oct 18, 2020 19:24:05 GMT -6
uh huh. but did you start with peter's design or not? how about fripholm's? You got a generalized explanation, and a personal invitation to answer all your questions. Why not take Chris up on it? Or are there deeper motives of just stirring things up on the internet?
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Post by ragan on Oct 18, 2020 20:03:16 GMT -6
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Joe’s expressing his concerns. It’s a forum not a cheerleading club. I’ve got some Audioscape in my rack and may have more at some point. I wish them continued success. There’s always been a bit of an uneasy relationship with the DIY scene and the entrepreneurs who’ve benefited from it. If the similar offerings from AS have nothing to do with the DIY offerings that came before them Chris can easily say so. If he doesn’t want to get into it in public and wants to let people make what they will of that, great. That’s his prerogative.
I don’t see any reason to be snowflakes about direct discourse. It taints the legitimacy of a forum if everyone circles the wagons around their pet brand. If someone is being disrespectful or a dick that’s one thing (there are those who get a constant pass for it, of course, see the above douche-nozzle comment) but just asking direct questions in a murky situation is no reason to be so precious about everything.
My $0.02.
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Post by drbill on Oct 18, 2020 20:14:06 GMT -6
There's respectful questioning and "expressing one's concerns", and there are accusations. Some may not see the difference between the two. Others do.
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Post by ragan on Oct 18, 2020 20:30:46 GMT -6
There's respectful questioning and "expressing one's concerns", and there are accusations. Some may not see the difference between the two. Others do. Of course, and where that boundary lies is subjective and down to personal interpretation.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2020 20:43:29 GMT -6
There's respectful questioning and "expressing one's concerns", and there are accusations. Some may not see the difference between the two. Others do. Agreed, & the fact that to present this argument he shows photos of components not a view of the traces shows that the one presenting the argument doesn’t even know how to make this argument.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2020 21:05:51 GMT -6
All good Ragan, but I hate it when Peeps take over thread about a new release, which I am interested in , with their issue of cloning etc., which I am not interested in. At best it’s tangentially related and if that’s their issue, I’d really prefer they start another thread, so like you said, those who want to discuss that can and those of us who don’t can actually read about the gear, which I am interested in. As I recall, I was one of the early requesters for this : 2 in a 19 inch rack and I really do want to know more about it. My .02 cents, shit that Cdn, you beat me !
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Post by sirthought on Oct 18, 2020 21:06:03 GMT -6
I think how Joe brought this up was interesting and not disrespectful. It's an important consideration for some people. I have no problems with bringing it up.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 18, 2020 23:33:22 GMT -6
I think how Joe brought this up was interesting and not disrespectful. It's an important consideration for some people. I have no problems with bringing it up. Yeah, but if you brought it up, it wouldn't be the sum total of your first half-dozen posts to the forum. There are ways to have a respectful conversation about what he's bringing up, but IMO he's chosen a different path.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2020 6:45:19 GMT -6
I think how Joe brought this up was interesting and not disrespectful. It's an important consideration for some people. I have no problems with bringing it up. The thing is he has no evidence! I don’t have a problem if somebody calls out R&D via copier if they show some evidence, examples: 1. Chameleon’s exact copy of Chandler PCB. 2. Behringer’s PCB’s where they even copied the Aphex name. I’m talking shots of the full PCB’s back and front where you see traces and full layout. Just because a budget clone maker comes out with a product doesn’t mean they cloned your favorite DIY clone! If there is evidence fine show it, but to throw out accusations with out evidence is just wrong.
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Post by Ward on Oct 19, 2020 6:55:03 GMT -6
There's respectful questioning and "expressing one's concerns", and there are accusations. Some may not see the difference between the two. Others do. So much this. You can ask questions respectfully, even challenge another's statements respectfully without going all "Bill Gates, stop copying Steve Jobs homework" on someone's ass . . . and yes, I still have that T-shirt, cos it was funny.
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Post by BradM on Oct 19, 2020 14:22:16 GMT -6
It looks like all the units that were intially released in the first batch by Audioscape were sold out in a day. Did anyone here manage to snag one?
Brad
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 19, 2020 14:25:51 GMT -6
It looks like all the units that were intially released in the first batch by Audioscape were sold out in a day. Did anyone here manage to snag one? Brad This is the real question that should have been asked a while ago..haha I will get one, just not yet. Saving probably for a big CAPI Black Friday purchase...if possible.
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Post by audioscape on Oct 19, 2020 16:54:49 GMT -6
It looks like all the units that were intially released in the first batch by Audioscape were sold out in a day. Did anyone here manage to snag one? Brad This is the real question that should have been asked a while ago..haha I will get one, just not yet. Saving probably for a big CAPI Black Friday purchase...if possible. Agreed!! Hahahaha, thank you SO MUCH to everyone who purchased a D3A!! Means the world to us!! ❤️❤️❤️
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Post by Ward on Oct 22, 2020 5:25:49 GMT -6
I spent hours with my new audioscape V3a last night and the night before. It's impossible to get a bad sound out of this unit! So, anyhow, I ran the Left and Right outs of my Digidesign 11 guitar preamp - I only use it for the Vox AC30 emulation which is spot-on (I have 5 vintage AC30s and all the right speakers). Left side went into a UA LA3a, right side went into the V3a. Set the same, it is virtually indistinguishable. There are slight differences but there are differences with each LA3a also. The treble bleed circuit is a little more effective on the V3a than the LA3a but release/recovery time might be a tiny bit slower. That happens depending on the T4 circuit or unit in optical compressor. I also ran it against my Mohog 76 - which is extremely LA3 like in behavior and tone. Again, impessed AF. It's on my long list of demo videos I must do some day! #ASAF
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 22, 2020 9:33:21 GMT -6
I spent hours with my new audioscape V3a last night and the night before. It's impossible to get a bad sound out of this unit! So, anyhow, I ran the Left and Right outs of my Digidesign 11 guitar preamp - I only use it for the Vox AC30 emulation which is spot-on (I have 5 vintage AC30s and all the right speakers). Left side went into a UA LA3a, right side went into the V3a. Set the same, it is virtually indistinguishable. There are slight differences but there are differences with each LA3a also. The treble bleed circuit is a little more effective on the V3a than the LA3a but release/recovery time might be a tiny bit slower. That happens depending on the T4 circuit or unit in optical compressor. I also ran it against my Mohog 76 - which is extremely LA3 like in behavior and tone. Again, impessed AF. It's on my long list of demo videos I must do some day! #ASAF you talking V3a or D3a here? cause you're saying D3a
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