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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 2, 2020 0:54:21 GMT -6
I mean to be fair..a normal U87 isn't a "wow" mic either. It's just good. Never great usually, but never bad either. Just consistent.
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 2, 2020 9:36:28 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Nov 2, 2020 10:04:48 GMT -6
So now that Warm has released some pics of the guts and capaule as well as a description of the parts and capsule, does anybody have any initial thoughts on this?
Even if it doesn't sound exactly like a real 67, I could still see the Warm 67 potentially being a useful mic, especially if they actually properly incorporated the often talked about, but rarely implemented negative feedback loop.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,811
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Post by ericn on Nov 2, 2020 11:15:08 GMT -6
First let me start by saying I have gleaned from this forum for several years now. Whenever I wanted or needed to learn something or was curious about gear I would learn a great deal from the members of this forum. Just finally signed up as a member. My first topic is mainly a question. Has anyone heard anything about Warm audio releasing a U67 clone. I was looking on guitar center and Musician's friend websites for the new revision of the wa87 and stumbled upon the wa67 as it is backordered. Curious as there is nowhere else this is being advertised not even on Warm audios site. Also curious on how the wa87 R2 sounds in comparison to the original wa87. Welcome to RGO, What is it your really looking for? Because here is the thing, as JK has stated before mics are all about the capsule. In sub $1K mics the capsule always seams to be compromised so they can budget in all the name brand parts. A good dynamic like a RE20, SM7, or M88 is going to probably get you a better tone unless your one of the few who the Warm fits like a glove. Under $1.5K there are plenty of mics that are not trying to be something that most won’t look down on and a few FET clones that will knock your socks off ( Heisermann FET, United 47 FET). I agree with JK the Warm mics don’t suck and can impress but every time I hear one I can’t help but think putting in a Capsule upgrade would give me more of what I want. Of course in the case of the WA87 that would be as much as the mic, add labor and other parts and I’m probably at $1.2-1.5K. For that price I end up with a pretty nice mic, but a used Neumann 87 can be found for $1.8K and says Neumann.
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Nov 2, 2020 14:03:01 GMT -6
First let me start by saying I have gleaned from this forum for several years now. Whenever I wanted or needed to learn something or was curious about gear I would learn a great deal from the members of this forum. Just finally signed up as a member. My first topic is mainly a question. Has anyone heard anything about Warm audio releasing a U67 clone. I was looking on guitar center and Musician's friend websites for the new revision of the wa87 and stumbled upon the wa67 as it is backordered. Curious as there is nowhere else this is being advertised not even on Warm audios site. Also curious on how the wa87 R2 sounds in comparison to the original wa87. Welcome to RGO, What is it your really looking for? Because here is the thing, as JK has stated before mics are all about the capsule. In sub $1K mics the capsule always seams to be compromised so they can budget in all the name brand parts. A good dynamic like a RE20, SM7, or M88 is going to probably get you a better tone unless your one of the few who the Warm fits like a glove. Under $1.5K there are plenty of mics that are not trying to be something that most won’t look down on and a few FET clones that will knock your socks off ( Heisermann FET, United 47 FET). I agree with JK the Warm mics don’t suck and can impress but every time I hear one I can’t help but think putting in a Capsule upgrade would give me more of what I want. Of course in the case of the WA87 that would be as much as the mic, add labor and other parts and I’m probably at $1.2-1.5K. For that price I end up with a pretty nice mic, but a used Neumann 87 can be found for $1.8K and says Neumann. I am not really looking for anything. I see that warm had revised the 87 and was wondering if anyone has heard the v2. If so is there really is an improvement as they claim. On another note when I was looking at the new wa87 I saw they had accidently put the wa67 up for presale before the mention from warm. This peaked my interest as to wanting to check it out. I have experience with their mics. I have had a wa47 and wa251 in my studio for a short time. I thought the wa47 was a good mic. The 251 was good as well but ultimately sent them both back. I later bought the 251 again and this time had to send it back 3 times for an exchange because poor quality control. Mainly in their power supply. Not to mention each 251 sounded completely different. I am hoping that the wa67 follows better components and quality control. From listening to the video above I can certainly hear a difference between the 2 mics but I must say it is pretty close. The original u67 seems to be more in your face versus the wa67. As far as the other mics you mention I do own a sm7b. It's ok. When it works it works. I also own a cv4 which is a great mic other than it's capsule. Your talking about an $1800 microphone. Lucky I got mine for $900. I recently swapped out it's capsule with the capsule that was in my wa47jr and put the cv4 capsule in the 47jr. Amazingly the cv4 sounds much better with the 47jr capsule. Will probably upgrade it eventually to a Heiserman or Beezneez. On the other hand the K67 capsule that came from the cv4 in the 47jr makes it sound better as well. I picked up an mxl revelation mic. The original version, from a company that was blowing them out. I got it for $250. The mic sounds really good. It seems to have the same style circuit as the u67. It has a k67 style capsule and the same tube the wa67 is using. I am surprised more people do not speak of it. They recently put out a version 2 of the mic for $499. The original mic went for $1,300. In my opinion you have to spend a good bit more than $1,500 to get a high quality mic. Reason I say this is I have tested the warm stuff with my cv4 which again is an $1800 mic. The warm stuff held it's own and actually their wa47 to me blew it out of the water. Mainly because the capsule in the cv4 is it's downfall. The warm stuff also blew away my Slate Ml1 and my sm7b. Even their wa47jr is not a bad mic. My hopes is the wa67 will rise above the rest of their offerings for the budget price. Their wa47 is nice but my cv4 with a 47 style capsule gave me the same results. As a vocalist and guitarist your always in pursuit of that elusive tone. I am always trying out new things. New pickups, different guitars etc. I find with vocals it is the same. Although I have been playing guitar a lot longer than I have been singing. The tone chasing for my vocals is a newer adventure for me. I have only really been taking singing serious for the last 8 years. Guitar well I have been playing for about 38 years. You never stop learning and growing. Recording myself has been more of a newer adventure. I did my own studio album for my band in 2012 and have been always learning. I am not ready or don't think I will ever be ready to drop 3k or more on a mic. I am of the mindset that pure talent trumps expensive gear. First demo I ever made was on an old British Hill mixing console to a Yamaha 4 track. The quality I got out of it landed us several days in a real studio here locally. The studio owner was floored at what I was able to achieve with that 4 track tape recorder. That was back in the adat days. Sure it would be nice to be able to afford the same gear foo fighters can like a $5000 bock but I have better things to spend money on. So if a $900 wa67 gets you almost there and it fits the style and character of my voice that would do just fine. I have been making do with the cv4 and mxl revelation. Just like any tone chaser always on the lookout for that thing without putting me in debt. I have gotten goo results with the sm7 and the slate as well as an old mxl 990s mic that I modded myself using a mic parts kit. Not a bad mic now. I don't like their 47 style capsule much. Certainly don't Think it was worth the price they charge. As soon as I can get my hands on the wa67 I will certainly try it out. Waqrm has been hit or miss on their quality control. The first wa273eq I got from them had a bad spot on one of the gain knobs. I sent it back and have been completely happy with it. The first wa47jr I got developed some issues after a few weeks. I sent it back for another and have had no problems. I did change the capsule for a different flavor. I have owned their wa47 for a short time and was impressed but my cv4 kind of did the same thing. Especially after I put a 47 style capsule in it. Their 251 well that was a different story. I order 3 of them and all 3 had the same quality control issues. Something with the power supply. Also each one sounded completely different. Hopefully they got their quality control issues resolved. I did notice that the new powers supply does not have the switch on it and they decided to use the switch on the mic itself. Anyway here is to forever chasing your tone.
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Post by drbill on Nov 2, 2020 15:23:07 GMT -6
Kinda hard to know without having the mic in your own place, but kudos to VK for doing a better 67 video than the vintage to new release 67 video they did. I guess they learned their lesson.... The warm sounds good. The vintage mic sounds better on "most" of the clips. There are instances where I might choose the warm over the vintage 67. The warm is really wooly on the low mids, and kind of sounds like a vintage 67 that needs a touch of maintenance. A tube swap could theoretically make the two a lot closer. Also, the vintage sounds kind of like it's been opened up on the HF, so.....there is that. Overall, I'd say warm did a good job of it.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 2, 2020 15:28:29 GMT -6
The wa67 is supposed to have a good ef08, but rolling tubes in mikes is part of the fun.
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Post by tkaitkai on Nov 2, 2020 15:33:38 GMT -6
The Warm sounds really good. The difference is a little more pronounced than I expected, especially given they're doing the "same take" method. The U67 has a clearer midrange and sounds more relaxed, whereas the Warm sounds a little honky by comparison. Not a crazy difference, but noticeable enough to where I prefer the U67. Still, we're talking about a $900 clone vs. the real deal. The Warm sounds fantastic on its own and is probably as good as it gets for that price. I'd love to try one.
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Post by Ward on Nov 3, 2020 6:17:12 GMT -6
Guitar, I have not been impressed with their 87 either, SNIP That's because they're not paying you to be impressed. ;-) Everyone they're paying, is very impressed. Do you know who Heiserman and audioscape pay to be impressed and endorse publicly? Nobody.
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Post by Ward on Nov 3, 2020 6:19:18 GMT -6
I mean to be fair..a normal U87 isn't a "wow" mic either. It's just good. Never great usually, but never bad either. Just consistent. You haven't heard my 1971 U87 then... which is normal for that 68-73/74 era. They had amazing grit and detail.
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Post by drbill on Nov 3, 2020 8:56:33 GMT -6
The wa67 is supposed to have a good ef08, but rolling tubes in mikes is part of the fun. I'm guessing that a really great "focused a bit towards a cleaner sound" tube roll could make it quite the contender.....
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Post by chessparov on Nov 3, 2020 9:53:58 GMT -6
Warm 87 R2 sounds very good. Between U87i and U87ai in tone.
Beesneez 87 is very close to vintage U87i. Will catch up tonight, after work. Chris
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 3, 2020 11:18:37 GMT -6
I mean to be fair..a normal U87 isn't a "wow" mic either. It's just good. Never great usually, but never bad either. Just consistent. You haven't heard my 1971 U87 then... which is normal for that 68-73/74 era. They had amazing grit and detail. That is true I haven't haha I've gotten lots of great results with U87s and U87ai's. Not denying that. That's it's trick though is nothing ever sounds bad in it. Ever. It might not knock your socks off but you'll be hard pressed to get it to sound bad.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 3, 2020 14:27:00 GMT -6
Sounds good...thought the vintage had more air and more top in general...but there's probably not worth - IMO - $13k worth of difference in the two.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 3, 2020 14:48:04 GMT -6
I guess I'm a u67 snob. I've never used one, but I've heard em a bunch, worked on mixes that were tracked with them. They do something I don't hear any other mic do. The wa-67 could be a nice, usable mic though. It just doesn't sound much like the 67 in this video or any other, to me. Then again, the reissue in the earlier VK video didn't, either.
I'll never let the dream die, though.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 4, 2020 1:51:35 GMT -6
just watched the video. The Vintage is so much better to me. Just so smooth and uniform sounding. The warm has too much sizzle and the low mids aren't as nice.
Probably doesn't suck though.
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Post by mike on Nov 4, 2020 2:08:09 GMT -6
Thought the difference in dimension and detail was pretty large to me, especially on male vocal.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Nov 4, 2020 4:05:22 GMT -6
The wa67 is supposed to have a good ef08, but rolling tubes in mikes is part of the fun. I'm guessing that a really great "focused a bit towards a cleaner sound" tube roll could make it quite the contender..... Looks like a new electro harmonics tube to me. Could definitely do with a NOS tube.
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Post by Quint on Dec 7, 2020 10:37:10 GMT -6
Did anybody see that Zen Pro is now offering the WA67 modded with a Neumann K67? $1759.
I wonder how close the WA67 circuit is to the original? With a real K67, that makes it an interesting proposition.
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 7, 2020 10:46:43 GMT -6
Interesting. There are clips on the clipalator of the WA67, WA67 with the Zen Mod, and the U67 Reissue.
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Post by Quint on Dec 7, 2020 11:08:03 GMT -6
Interesting. There are clips on the clipalator of the WA67, WA67 with the Zen Mod, and the U67 Reissue. There is apparently also a K87 mod for the WA87. As for the WA-67 mod, I know you can do the Max mod retrofit with a TLM67 or U87AI, but that's gonna set you back roughly $3K for the mod to the TLM67 and even more for the mod to the U87AI. Too bad Warm couldn't build their WA84s to accept a Neumann capsule. I still have to wonder how long Neumann will allow something like this to go on.
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 7, 2020 13:20:22 GMT -6
True. I didn't like the stock MK67. To add the Neumann BV12 is another $300 or so if you can do it yourself, and more if you need a tech to do it. I will say though that my modded MK67 sounds amazing.
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Post by Quint on Dec 7, 2020 13:42:57 GMT -6
True. I didn't like the stock MK67. To add the Neumann BV12 is another $300 or so if you can do it yourself, and more if you need a tech to do it. I will say though that my modded MK67 sounds amazing. From everything I've heard, the MK67 does sound great. I would happily take one and consider my 67 lust more or less complete. Zen also does a tranny mod, but their using a Tab variant of the BV12, for whatever that's worth.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 7, 2020 13:51:57 GMT -6
&Quint the prototype wa84 was reported to accept Neumann cap but mysteriously didn’t end up that way !
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Post by Quint on Dec 7, 2020 15:30:56 GMT -6
&Quint the prototype wa84 was reported to accept Neumann cap but mysteriously didn’t end up that way ! Yeah, I heard that.
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