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Post by guitarheadhunt on Oct 5, 2020 15:13:40 GMT -6
First let me start by saying I have gleaned from this forum for several years now. Whenever I wanted or needed to learn something or was curious about gear I would learn a great deal from the members of this forum. Just finally signed up as a member.
My first topic is mainly a question. Has anyone heard anything about Warm audio releasing a U67 clone. I was looking on guitar center and Musician's friend websites for the new revision of the wa87 and stumbled upon the wa67 as it is backordered. Curious as there is nowhere else this is being advertised not even on Warm audios site. Also curious on how the wa87 R2 sounds in comparison to the original wa87.
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Post by tkaitkai on Oct 5, 2020 15:28:39 GMT -6
That's fascinating. I had to Google it, but I did indeed find a WA-67 on Guitar Center's website. Looks like it's probably an upcoming release that hasn't been announced yet. Or possibly an older design that was scrapped, but based on the headbasket and the Gotham cable, I'd guess it's a new mic.
Actually pretty awesome, now that I think about it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 5, 2020 15:34:52 GMT -6
Well. That’s interesting. Good first post!
I must say, I continue to get tracks from the WA-47 that I was impressed with...and I didn’t think the 251 was that bad either. It lots of times these cheaper mics can work well for some but reeaaaallly don’t on others. Like if you have to cut out bottom, you’re left with a pretty bad midrange and top. I think they did well approximating the sound of a 47...be interesting to hear their take on a 67.
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Post by Quint on Oct 5, 2020 16:00:48 GMT -6
Interesting. www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/warm-audio-wa-67I'm actually surprised it took them this long. Assuming that they are reusing the same capsule from the WA-87, this seems like a no brainer for Warm. I have a pair of the WA-87 and actually like them quite a bit, though I am going to swap out the trannys for BV-12s one of these days. I see that they're using a Lundahl on the WA-67. I wonder how "right" they got the sibilance-killing feedback mechanism in the circuit? That seems to be one of the things that most of the clones never seem to properly address.
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Oct 5, 2020 16:10:10 GMT -6
www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/warm-audio-wa-67 Here is the link. Yesterday you were able to order even though it said backordered. Now it says unavailable. I wonder if they accidently let the cat out of the bag. As far as their other Warm mics I did have the WA-47 and the WA-251 in my studio for a trial. I liked them both and ultimately returned both. I was comparing them to my CV4. The WA47 was better than the WA251 most of the time. It depend on the vocal I was cutting. The 47 had a low mid thing going and seemed to have a bit of a build up there. It reminded me of the sound of the CV4 without all the high end harshness the CV4 can have and adding the warmth from that low mid. The wa251 certainly had that scooped sound as well as a muddiness in the low mids. Sometimes I liked it other times I didn't. I returned them thinking maybe if I changed the capsule of the CV4 I would like it better. I then found the 251 on sale one day and bought it again. This time I went through 3 of them before I decided the quality control on the 251's were not very good. Mainly the power supply. All 3 had a bad breakup and made a horrific sound when I would switch the dial on the power supply. I tried cleaning them but that did not work. I decided I would wait for the right time to buy the WA47. Since then I replaced the capsule on my CV4 with the capsule out of my WA47 jr. Now the mic sounds much better. Makes me wonder how a Heiserman or Beezneez would sound in it. I did put the CV4 capsule in the 47 jr and now that mic sounds even better to me. It seemed as if the 47 stock capsule in the jr gave it a more covered sound. Now it has opened right up. I got the idea from hearing CDkelly talk about what he does to the 47jr by switching to an 87 style capsule. I figured well the CV4 is a 67 capsule so why not. I am curious in that WA-67. I will say I found a great deal on a new old stock MXL Revelation microphone. I am surprised that Mic doesn't get more attention. I got mine for about $350 from pro sound and stage lighting. They had a handful of them and sold out. Now MXL has released the Revelation 2 which seems to be the same mic for $499. The original was about $1200. They seem to be going for that U67 thing. It has an ef86 tube and a 67 capsule. It does sport a transformer but no telling what it is. I never heard a real 67 but the Revelation certainly is in the same league as the Cv4 and the wa mics I have tried.
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Post by Quint on Oct 5, 2020 16:18:23 GMT -6
www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/warm-audio-wa-67 Here is the link. Yesterday you were able to order even though it said backordered. Now it says unavailable. I wonder if they accidently let the cat out of the bag. As far as their other Warm mics I did have the WA-47 and the WA-251 in my studio for a trial. I liked them both and ultimately returned both. I was comparing them to my CV4. The WA47 was better than the WA251 most of the time. It depend on the vocal I was cutting. The 47 had a low mid thing going and seemed to have a bit of a build up there. It reminded me of the sound of the CV4 without all the high end harshness the CV4 can have and adding the warmth from that low mid. The wa251 certainly had that scooped sound as well as a muddiness in the low mids. Sometimes I liked it other times I didn't. I returned them thinking maybe if I changed the capsule of the CV4 I would like it better. I then found the 251 on sale one day and bought it again. This time I went through 3 of them before I decided the quality control on the 251's were not very good. Mainly the power supply. All 3 had a bad breakup and made a horrific sound when I would switch the dial on the power supply. I tried cleaning them but that did not work. I decided I would wait for the right time to buy the WA47. Since then I replaced the capsule on my CV4 with the capsule out of my WA47 jr. Now the mic sounds much better. Makes me wonder how a Heiserman or Beezneez would sound in it. I did put the CV4 capsule in the 47 jr and now that mic sounds even better to me. It seemed as if the 47 stock capsule in the jr gave it a more covered sound. Now it has opened right up. I got the idea from hearing CDkelly talk about what he does to the 47jr by switching to an 87 style capsule. I figured well the CV4 is a 67 capsule so why not. I am curious in that WA-67. I will say I found a great deal on a new old stock MXL Revelation microphone. I am surprised that Mic doesn't get more attention. I got mine for about $350 from pro sound and stage lighting. They had a handful of them and sold out. Now MXL has released the Revelation 2 which seems to be the same mic for $499. The original was about $1200. They seem to be going for that U67 thing. It has an ef86 tube and a 67 capsule. It does sport a transformer but no telling what it is. I never heard a real 67 but the Revelation certainly is in the same league as the Cv4 and the wa mics I have tried. What was the price for WA-67?
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Oct 5, 2020 16:21:59 GMT -6
Interesting. www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/warm-audio-wa-67I'm actually surprised it took them this long. Assuming that they are reusing the same capsule from the WA-87, this seems like a no brainer for Warm. I have a pair of the WA-87 and actually like them quite a bit, though I am going to swap out the trannys for BV-12s one of these days. I see that they're using a Lundahl on the WA-67. I wonder how "right" they got the sibilance-killing feedback mechanism in the circuit? That seems to be one of the things that most of the clones never seem to properly address. It says K67 style capsule. Not sure if it's the same.
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Oct 5, 2020 16:23:42 GMT -6
www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/warm-audio-wa-67 Here is the link. Yesterday you were able to order even though it said backordered. Now it says unavailable. I wonder if they accidently let the cat out of the bag. As far as their other Warm mics I did have the WA-47 and the WA-251 in my studio for a trial. I liked them both and ultimately returned both. I was comparing them to my CV4. The WA47 was better than the WA251 most of the time. It depend on the vocal I was cutting. The 47 had a low mid thing going and seemed to have a bit of a build up there. It reminded me of the sound of the CV4 without all the high end harshness the CV4 can have and adding the warmth from that low mid. The wa251 certainly had that scooped sound as well as a muddiness in the low mids. Sometimes I liked it other times I didn't. I returned them thinking maybe if I changed the capsule of the CV4 I would like it better. I then found the 251 on sale one day and bought it again. This time I went through 3 of them before I decided the quality control on the 251's were not very good. Mainly the power supply. All 3 had a bad breakup and made a horrific sound when I would switch the dial on the power supply. I tried cleaning them but that did not work. I decided I would wait for the right time to buy the WA47. Since then I replaced the capsule on my CV4 with the capsule out of my WA47 jr. Now the mic sounds much better. Makes me wonder how a Heiserman or Beezneez would sound in it. I did put the CV4 capsule in the 47 jr and now that mic sounds even better to me. It seemed as if the 47 stock capsule in the jr gave it a more covered sound. Now it has opened right up. I got the idea from hearing CDkelly talk about what he does to the 47jr by switching to an 87 style capsule. I figured well the CV4 is a 67 capsule so why not. I am curious in that WA-67. I will say I found a great deal on a new old stock MXL Revelation microphone. I am surprised that Mic doesn't get more attention. I got mine for about $350 from pro sound and stage lighting. They had a handful of them and sold out. Now MXL has released the Revelation 2 which seems to be the same mic for $499. The original was about $1200. They seem to be going for that U67 thing. It has an ef86 tube and a 67 capsule. It does sport a transformer but no telling what it is. I never heard a real 67 but the Revelation certainly is in the same league as the Cv4 and the wa mics I have tried. What was the price for WA-67? It was the same price as the WA47 like $899
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Post by gwlee7 on Oct 5, 2020 16:37:58 GMT -6
I have a Wa 251 and a Wa 87. They are good for what they are. Fairly decent, sorta mid priced microphones. That said, I feel like I made a mistake and would have been better off remembering the same hard lesson that I learned chasing guitars and guitar amps. And, that lesson is to save your money and buy something that you aren’t just “settling” for. I should have combined the money spent on the Wa 87 and the 251 and bought one much better mic than having two average ones. Apparently, it’s a lesson I have to learn every time I get into some new aspect of music making.
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Post by Quint on Oct 5, 2020 16:39:40 GMT -6
Interesting. www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/warm-audio-wa-67I'm actually surprised it took them this long. Assuming that they are reusing the same capsule from the WA-87, this seems like a no brainer for Warm. I have a pair of the WA-87 and actually like them quite a bit, though I am going to swap out the trannys for BV-12s one of these days. I see that they're using a Lundahl on the WA-67. I wonder how "right" they got the sibilance-killing feedback mechanism in the circuit? That seems to be one of the things that most of the clones never seem to properly address. It says K67 style capsule. Not sure if it's the same. Neumann uses the same capsule for the 67 and 87, so I'm just assuming that Warm would do the same, especially when considering the cost saving measures that Warm typically employs. Why design two different capsules if Neumann doesn't even do that? But maybe Warm did? I guess we'll find out more soon enough.
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Oct 5, 2020 16:56:54 GMT -6
I have a Wa 251 and a Wa 87. They are good for what they are. Fairly decent, sorta mid priced microphones. That said, I feel like I made a mistake and would have been better off remembering the same hard lesson that I learned chasing guitars and guitar amps. And, that lesson is to save your money and buy something that you aren’t just “settling” for. I should have combined the money spent on the Wa 87 and the 251 and bought one much better mic than having two average ones. Apparently, it’s a lesson I have to learn every time I get into some new aspect of music making. I hear you loud and clear. I spoil myself when it comes to guitars. I use to use only high end Ibanez but once I got my hands on my first musicman!! Let's just say it's an expensive habit. As far as your mic choices you only have a collective $1300 in those 2 mics. I think you would be hard pressed to get anything much better than what you have. You would need to venture into the 3k to 5k range for that. For me that's just not realistic. I could see if I was making my living at music but I don't. For that matter I have gotten great results with my $399 SM7b going into my wa73 pre going into my kt2a comp. Got to love it. Today's technology. My first demo was done on an old British Hill mixing board feeding my old Yamaha 4 track. Using nothing but sm57's. I bounced every track I could to the 4th track. I then went to a local studio and dumped everything to adat. Then used the rest of the available tracks to do backup vocals. It turned out so good the studio owner gave us a free day in his studio to see what we could do in his place. Then that turned into another free day. I guess my point is back then in the late 80's early 90's we used what we had and made choices based on that. It allowed for more time being creative. Doing creative things to make the demo work. Sometimes I wish it was just that simple again. We tend to make it more complicated these days with all the choices. Some days my wife will ask what are you doing. My reply " I am looking at porn" She say's yeah right and I say "no really gear porn". That said I am curious about this 67.
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Post by gwlee7 on Oct 5, 2020 17:26:44 GMT -6
These are fair points. Like I said, these are good mics.
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Post by drumsound on Oct 5, 2020 18:08:23 GMT -6
What was the price for WA-67? It was the same price as the WA47 like $899 For 100 bucks more you could get an Advanced Audio CM67se. You've got a small company where you can easily get to the main guy if there's an issue. And being they sell direct there's a pretty big "saving" compared to a company with distribution and dealer pricing. I reviewed the CM67se and it is a really lovely mic. Warm QC always seems to be an issue...
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Post by ragan on Oct 5, 2020 18:44:18 GMT -6
Aren't all the AA mics the same CCDA circuit with differently voiced capsules? Not that there's anything wrong with that (cue Seinfeld clip), it's an effective, low cost way to get very clean sound. But I'd hope if Warm is doing this, they're doing the whole 67 circuit. Without the de-emphasis network, it's not really in the territory of a real U67.
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Post by brenta on Oct 5, 2020 21:35:36 GMT -6
Aren't all the AA mics the same CCDA circuit with differently voiced capsules? Not that there's anything wrong with that (cue Seinfeld clip), it's an effective, low cost way to get very clean sound. But I'd hope if Warm is doing this, they're doing the whole 67 circuit. Without the de-emphasis network, it's not really in the territory of a real U67. I certainly agree with you that it’s not the same without the de-emphasis circuit. By now it’s an open secret that Warm uses 3u capsules. You would know better than me, but but is seems Guosheng is really good at tuning k67 capsules to achieve different sounds. I think Barbaric’s previous stock “67” (not one of his custom builds) was a clean tube circuit with 3u’s “smooth top” k67. He’s now switched primarily to Maiku capsules for his stock mics.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 5, 2020 22:07:34 GMT -6
I have a Wa 251 and a Wa 87. They are good for what they are. Fairly decent, sorta mid priced microphones. That said, I feel like I made a mistake and would have been better off remembering the same hard lesson that I learned chasing guitars and guitar amps. And, that lesson is to save your money and buy something that you aren’t just “settling” for. I should have combined the money spent on the Wa 87 and the 251 and bought one much better mic than having two average ones. Apparently, it’s a lesson I have to learn every time I get into some new aspect of music making. Ever thought of doing the Signal Art upgrade to your WA251? Click HERE.
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Post by drumsound on Oct 5, 2020 22:37:45 GMT -6
Aren't all the AA mics the same CCDA circuit with differently voiced capsules? Not that there's anything wrong with that (cue Seinfeld clip), it's an effective, low cost way to get very clean sound. But I'd hope if Warm is doing this, they're doing the whole 67 circuit. Without the de-emphasis network, it's not really in the territory of a real U67. I do not believe that to be true. Circuits are, I believe, designed for each mic. The idea behind their mics is to make mics based on the sound of the classic.
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Oct 5, 2020 22:55:56 GMT -6
Aren't all the AA mics the same CCDA circuit with differently voiced capsules? Not that there's anything wrong with that (cue Seinfeld clip), it's an effective, low cost way to get very clean sound. But I'd hope if Warm is doing this, they're doing the whole 67 circuit. Without the de-emphasis network, it's not really in the territory of a real U67. I do not believe that to be true. Circuits are, I believe, designed for each mic. The idea behind their mics is to make mics based on the sound of the classic. From what I have read in multiple places and on AA website they predominantly use the CCDA circuit using different values with different components and different capsules to achieve a close proximity to the sound the mic is shooting for. It's kind of like microphone parts.com. They use the same circuit in most of their builds. AA would be best suited to really answer this questions but I believe ragan is right. As far as warm I do agree I have seen some serious quality control issues on their 251. I only tried one of the wa47 at it was a great mic. The first 47 jr I had I had to send back to sweetwater for a replacement. Same with my WA273. I have had no problems with their wa76 or the replacements. Their 251 is another story. I had ordered 1 and sent it back 3 times until I finally said forget it. I would certainly be willing to try the wa-67.
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Post by gwlee7 on Oct 6, 2020 5:16:02 GMT -6
I have a Wa 251 and a Wa 87. They are good for what they are. Fairly decent, sorta mid priced microphones. That said, I feel like I made a mistake and would have been better off remembering the same hard lesson that I learned chasing guitars and guitar amps. And, that lesson is to save your money and buy something that you aren’t just “settling” for. I should have combined the money spent on the Wa 87 and the 251 and bought one much better mic than having two average ones. Apparently, it’s a lesson I have to learn every time I get into some new aspect of music making. Ever thought of doing the Signal Art upgrade to your WA251? Click HERE. Something to consider down the road perhaps. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 6, 2020 5:23:21 GMT -6
Aren't all the AA mics the same CCDA circuit with differently voiced capsules? Not that there's anything wrong with that (cue Seinfeld clip), it's an effective, low cost way to get very clean sound. But I'd hope if Warm is doing this, they're doing the whole 67 circuit. Without the de-emphasis network, it's not really in the territory of a real U67. My guess is someone added the page to the website prematurely. Anyway, all the original AA mics have the same basic circuit with capsule and transformer choices dialing in the sound. No tuned capsules. Just their own K47, K67, and CEK12 style capsules. There are two variations of the circuit. The CM49 and CM251 were a little different than the others. You could interchange their power supplies with each other, but not with the other AA mics. The CM67se, CM12, and the earlier CM47s were interchangeable. I liked my CM67se, but it was more inline with a modded U67 than a regular U67. I did have a “vintage” mode on mine too, but it was a touch dull in that mode. There is no deemphasis circuit in it. AA’s k67 isn’t as bright as Neumann’s and they used a BV8 to give the mic a little more beef. Still, I really liked it until I grabbed the RMS 269. Now that my MK67 is modded with a Neumann BV12 it would be hard to go backward. That said, I’m really curious about the WA67. It could be a hell of a work horse mic for people on a budget. I have the WA47 in here currently courtesy of mike . I have been waiting on AA’s new CM47LE to shoot them out in one of my videos, but delays due to COVID have made it tricky. Everytime they get stock, they end up having to fill back orders. Which is great for them. I’m happy people are ordering from them. I’ve been messing around with the warm WA47 for a few months now and I have to say it’s the best budget 47 I have ever used. Will it compete with a FleA 47... no, but I prefer it to the CM48T I demoed here. That is not to say that I disliked the CM48T, just that the WA47 sounds more like I expect a 47 style mic to sound like. I had a Peluso 2247se for a long time. It would be a real toss up for me between them. I would say the Peluso had a bit more clarity and might be a better all rounder, but the WA47 has that compressed 47 sound. It’s a bit of an exaggeration of the sound, but still. I’ve seen them go used for $600. That’s not a bad deal. As I move closer and closer to bringing in more musicians and try to get away from Virtual Instruments it makes a good argument that having a pair of cheaper WA mics surrounded by some of my high end mics isn’t a bad idea. I look forward to hearing samples of this mic.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 12, 2020 7:14:22 GMT -6
My buddy did his recent album with a WA-47 upgraded by Chad at Signal Arts. The upgrades cleaned it up quite a bit. At 1k with the upgrades it's a solid very good sounding mic. Last week I brought my Stam SA-67 over to his place for a vocal track and his jaw dropped. Bigness, 3D quality , Neumanesque honk, transparency, plenty of gain without extra noise. It's the closest new production mic I've heard to the quality of the 5k Chandler REDD 47, and it's around 2k. I haven't heard the Neumann 67 reissue yet, and I'm hoping to do a comparison eventually.
So, the Warm is much better than many mid-budget mics, but once you sit it next to the big boys, well, it suffers in comparison. BUT... occasionally it's a good fit for a particular vocalist and you can get excellent work done.
Unfortunately, Stam probably won't be making the SA67 for a few months while they deal with the Covid crisis.
If I were you, under 1k, I'd look at the Lewitt 640. A friend did some incredible tracks with it. I find it sounds like a 414, but with a better bottom.
Or maybe a Stam SA87
Oh, and welcome to the forum guitarheadhunt!
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 1, 2020 6:35:38 GMT -6
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 1, 2020 9:05:12 GMT -6
Very interesting.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 1, 2020 12:47:57 GMT -6
I love the insight in this thread, on RGO in general. To address an earlier point someone made, K87 and K67 capsules are in fact different, only in the way that the K87 has electrically isolated backplates. The K67 also has separate backplates, for acoustical matching and consistency, but they are electrically coupled. The difference matters in some versions of the amplifier circuits of these microphones, for the pattern selection. They should sound the same if the amplifier circuit is compatible.
I bought some Warm WA-84 and sent them back. They are very middle of the road sounding microphones. If you are in the middle of the road, I guess that's great. I tend to veer off to one side or the other. I also build things so to me Warm money is "DIY Money" and it's hard to justify those new prices.
Seems like a tough sell at those price points, given how many other options there are right now. Your Stams, Audioscapes, Klark Tekniks, all that. The thing that Warm seems to nail is producing a ton of this stuff and outfitting it at everyone's favorite vending machine websites. I guess that gives them an edge in ease of sales and acquisition.
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 1, 2020 22:49:28 GMT -6
Guitar, I have not been impressed with their 87 either, except on voice over. I have a client/student who has one. A colleague of mine who came to me when she got complaints about her voice over recordings. It was a marked improvement over the crappy scarlet mic she had before. I have the WA47 in here now. A Flea or Heiserman it isn’t, but I like it better than other discount 47s I’ve used. I’m hoping the WA67 is in that vein.
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