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Post by svart on Sept 24, 2020 11:19:37 GMT -6
you guys ever just start thinking of things you'd change in your studios in the future but then it gets wildly out of hand?
I go through these periods of wanting to just unhook everything and starting from scratch again for no good reason other than just go through the discovery process of new methods and such.
Right now I use a hybrid system, 24 I/O with the inputs mapping directly to a patch bay for preamps. The outputs of the converters go the mixer and I'm mostly using it as an insert and summing unit these days. I'm also using a handful of outboard gear that's patched into the insert patchbay on specific channels almost 100% of the time.
During these periods of studio unrest, I usually clean out gear that I'm not using very much, or recently, can be replaced by plugins that are now getting pretty good at emulating hardware.
To that end, I'm also stuck with my SSL Alphalink and MX4 MADI interface card in a rack computer. It's about 6-7 years old at this point and it's still working perfectly but I'm thinking of the future and I've talked to a few folks with different setups trying to figure out what my next path might be. SSL Alphalinks are great but they're almost extinct and the MX4 cards/drivers/software IS extinct and unsupported. I also had a bad time trying to get the card to work as certain new (at the time) chipset families had issues with latency and would cause the card to disconnect from the application randomly and I would lose my audio streams. I don't have any reason that this would have become better over time and I don't want to go through that process again.
So I'm thinking of cutting down my setup considerably to a high powered laptop and MOTU converters via USB and getting rid of the rack computer/card/alphalink setup altogether and dumping a handful of gear and going mostly ITB. This would cost me many thousands of dollars to do and it solves almost zero issues yet I feel highly compelled to set this into motion for no other reason than to have something interesting to do while telling myself it's better to do this now than to wait for something to fail and have to do it rushed. I'm certain it would work almost exactly the same way that it does now, just with less hardware and power consumption..
Anyone else just feel like tearing it all up and starting again just to feel something new?
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Post by notneeson on Sept 24, 2020 11:56:10 GMT -6
Might be nice to do some work at home on phones with the laptop rig, if that’s appealing. I find it liberating not to do everything in my studio space, despite my appreciation of my outboard etc.
I’m on PT though so most of the things I worry about with upgrades probably don’t apply.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 13:37:57 GMT -6
Yeah all the time. I did it last year ditching gear and then did it again this year, changing over all plugins like a madman. The more hardware and software I measure and test in the real world in the heat of real work, the more stuff I reject, the better it gets. I’m going to do it again with monitoring, interface, and computers soon. GAS or boredom, idk what it is but piece of mind for me is worth a lot.
Motu avb is a good buy but I’d look into thunderbolt for lower latencies, reliability, and ease of use. Motu AVB over usb works well on windows but doesn’t play nicely with amp sims. Thunderbolt more reliable than usb and the lynx stuff is even more reliable than motu but I’ve had better experience with the the motu usb than lynx usb. Not that MOTU AVB tbolt is bad at all and Lynx tbolt is way more $$$$. The drivers just run better. Dante and RME MADI are rock solid but still require $$$$ pcie cards tying you to desktops. TotalMix has truncation issues and the Audinate software can’t compete with the built in digital mixers in MOTU, Lynx, and RME for replacing a small hardware mixer for monitoring. The purple site would say go rme for best usb drivers but you’ll be taking a step back from your alphalinks and pcie interface.
Some of the customized by Daw builders (Eg Scan in the uk) Clevo laptops are fine as are some of the recent thinkpad P series optimized correctly but a lot of current laptops have dpc latency hell. AMD still doesn’t perform as well as intel at lower latencies which should be a consideration if you want to ditch your mixer. The more you go itb, the more cpu and ram you want, the more a laptop will limit what you can do mix wise without freezing and waiting a minute.
In the last couple years I replaced with digital:
Yamaha digital consoles and adat pres with motu avb digital mixers. I finally stopped evaluating reaper too.
Fmr comps, 3630, and most dbx with Presswerk and now mainly DC8C 3 but they are harder to grasp. I have no need for any hardware with a lamo digital sidechain now. *glares at a few expensive hardware pieces*
Ditched waves, variety of sound, and plugin alliance for Klanghelm, Tokyo Dawn, and Goodhertz.
All fet style, fast non lookahead limiting is with Faraday Limiter now. I was so disappointed with fet type plugins, i was using mastering plugins for some time. Faraday is still not as flexible as hardware but is one of the only plugins capabale of proper ultra fast attack and release without spazzing out. I still want to buy a Drawmer 1978 but they were sold out in the start of covid when I was spending $$$$.
All hardware eqs and specialty modeled EQ plugs with SlickEQ GE, Slick EQ M, and SDRR 2 functions.
Tube line stages and Shattered Glass plugs with SDRR 2 and MJUC. I just don’t care that much about printing tube fx now. Tube gear is such a money sink.
Old cheap hardware verbs with MegaVerb and 1989verb.
I still can’t find anything close to hardware comps for two bus and drum bus so I will be wasting a few thousand on a couple those and need to pick one. Daking? Drawmer? API? SSL? IDK. Plugin comps also tend to shit out at ultra fast attack and release. Their control signals jsut alias. They need massive oversampling. Presswerk can sort of do cheap hardware vca on two bus and will snap harder than the soft knee live sound vcas but must be tweaked more and saturates more like a Fatso than an SSL. It lacks vibe and betterness compared to the live sound vcas (dbx, Drawmer, spl, alesis) And FMRs. They just get better until
They crap out. Presswerk will fuzz out. Kotelnikov can do it but can neither snap easily because of program dependencies nor be mixed into because of the peak crest knob.. The others just nuke (DC8C 3 which is harder to set than Presswerk but better saturation and Vulf which is a dedicated nuke) or make things smaller and shittier in ways they shouldn’t (Trackcomp vca models. The Glue fairs better but still bleh).
Right now I’m considering adding Voxengo Drumformer, Voxformer, Marquis, and Fabfilter products to the workflow but the Voxengo plugs other than Marquis are complex, Marquis can crunch out and won’t snap as easily as DC8C or Presswerk, and those will take time to learn. I need a reason to waste money with Fabfilter. FF has never even won a sound shootout to end up in a mix for me. I found JS ReEQ instead of Pro Q 3, Pro C2 has weird program dependencies and can get quite reedy and digital at deep gain reductions, and Saturn 2 still doesn’t sound as good as Klanghelm and U-he Satin.
Hope this helps in any way. Replacing anything in the workflow is very difficult and a wrought process.
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Post by matt on Sept 24, 2020 18:23:22 GMT -6
I unplugged everything in my 32 i/o hybrid rig and went in the box in April. Got rid of my desk too. Still coming to grips with the change but I already know I won't go back. Besides issues with hardware delay compensation and end of life gear (Symphony MK1), I started to feel boxed into one method because I became reluctant to twist knobs. I now have a healthy pile of gear to sell/trade, which I'm going to plow into Avid S1s and iPads. I already own a Dock and it's killer. I want to start using VCA spill as a core mixing technique, and the trio of Control/Dock/S1 will do it all night long: Attachment Deleted |
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Post by svart on Sept 25, 2020 9:47:05 GMT -6
I unplugged everything in my 32 i/o hybrid rig and went in the box in April. Got rid of my desk too. Still coming to grips with the change but I already know I won't go back. Besides issues with hardware delay compensation and end of life gear (Symphony MK1), I started to feel boxed into one method because I became reluctant to twist knobs. I now have a healthy pile of gear to sell/trade, which I'm going to plow into Avid S1s and iPads. I already own a Dock and it's killer. I want to start using VCA spill as a core mixing technique, and the trio of Control/Dock/S1 will do it all night long: Honestly I used to be very anti-ITB but now that plugs are generally pretty good at emulating hardware these days, I'm feeling much less apprehensive. I've come to like certain aspects of ITB mixing, especially the absolute recall stuff so I can move between projects in seconds. I'd still need to keep 24 inputs since I do use most of them during main tracking, so I'd go with a MOTU 24ai on that. I've been looking at their other offerings and since I'd need 8x analog outputs for headphone sends and a pair of RCA SPDIF/AES I/O for mixdown and monitoring on the digital monitors and a pair of analog outputs for the analog monitors. I'd likely go with their 828es interface for this as well but that leaves nothing for looping out to hardware if I wanted to keep any rack gear, although they have two sets of ADAT optical I/O and I currently use ADAT-to-analog converters to create my headphone mixes. I had hoped to get rid of those, but I suppose I could keep them. And then the computer, a new desk, etc. Lots of cash to scratch the itch that really doesn't need scratching yet. |
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Post by popmann on Sept 25, 2020 10:52:41 GMT -6
This would cost me many thousands of dollars to do and it solves almost zero issues yet I feel highly compelled to set this into motion for no other reason than to have something interesting to do while telling myself it's better to do this now than to wait for something to fail and have to do it rushed. I'm certain it would work almost exactly the same way that it does now, just with less hardware and power consumption.. Anyone else just feel like tearing it all up and starting again just to feel something new? A few years ago, I was certain that the future of my studio would be a SPL Crimson sitting on my Kronos's blank spot....with a spot for either an iMac or Macbook (and all the periphery it takes to make those viable) perched on a plank on the second tier of the keyboard stand. Speakers on stands. Whole studio. I found myself in cognitive dissonance about it. Name positives: 1- Less physical footprint 2- Probably slightly less power draw 3- Less peripheral pieces involved means...less complications with upgrades 4- Simpler day to day--plug mic or DI into SPL, hit record...vs the patching of outboard into clock sync Burl, etc... Negatives: 1-Less flexible 2-Less sonics 3- Less ability to run cutting edge VIs or expand computer capabilities TO... 4- More VI latency over USB So, I'm trading workflow flexibility, my passion for new VIs, potentially shit latency for said VIs, and LESS GOOD SOUND...for...a smaller footprint? There's logically zero sense to be made from that, but I was sort of obsessed with for the FIRST TIME EVER...not really having a studio in my house (per se)...Keyboard with a laptop dock and a few peripherals. I'm confident I could get into the ballpark of where I'm at (in terms of quality) with SO little footprint. Yet really...why? It's almost like a life disaster plan. Like "I can set his up ANYWHERE and work"... EDIT: But, I also just have that bent: less things. In like 1999'ish, I got on the bent that I had three electric guitars: Tele (w/ Texas Special PUS), Strat, and a Peavey Vandenberg (80s super strat with 25" PRS scale w/Duncan bridge HB)--and I bought a new Strat with a Duncan HB on the bridge and Texas Specials on the middle/neck--thinking that I'd just sell off the other three so I could go back to having "one flexible guitar". I put SO much time and money into tweaking that strat's electronics...trying to get it to be my 'Everything' and it simply wasn't killer at ANYTHING. So, I'd use it live--and nearly never in the studio. More recently, I've been eyeballing a PRS Paul's Guitar...thinking "I'm pretty set in how I play...and that could likely cover me"...one guitar to change strings and polish frets on...etc...It's like a $4k guitar. So, even having "learned my lesson" in that pursuit...still... |
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Post by subspace on Sept 25, 2020 11:41:39 GMT -6
I take my grand plan OCD out on the patchbay, where I can flail away with an iron until the compulsion dies from fatigue.
I switched to the MOTU 16A > Thunderbolt dock > MacBook Pro rig in 2015, haven’t shopped converters/interface/computers since. I’ve got the old Sydec converters via adat when I need more than 16 I/O.
Did a similar thing in 2011 when I added the little Audient desk/controller to my Trident sidecar, killed the hobby shopping for DAW contoller/analog automation/monitor controller/summing box... great excuse-killer purchase.
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Post by svart on Sept 25, 2020 13:19:20 GMT -6
This would cost me many thousands of dollars to do and it solves almost zero issues yet I feel highly compelled to set this into motion for no other reason than to have something interesting to do while telling myself it's better to do this now than to wait for something to fail and have to do it rushed. I'm certain it would work almost exactly the same way that it does now, just with less hardware and power consumption.. Anyone else just feel like tearing it all up and starting again just to feel something new? A few years ago, I was certain that the future of my studio would be a SPL Crimson sitting on my Kronos's blank spot....with a spot for either an iMac or Macbook (and all the periphery it takes to make those viable) perched on a plank on the second tier of the keyboard stand. Speakers on stands. Whole studio. I found myself in cognitive dissonance about it. Name positives: 1- Less physical footprint 2- Probably slightly less power draw 3- Less peripheral pieces involved means...less complications with upgrades 4- Simpler day to day--plug mic or DI into SPL, hit record...vs the patching of outboard into clock sync Burl, etc... Negatives: 1-Less flexible 2-Less sonics 3- Less ability to run cutting edge VIs or expand computer capabilities TO... 4- More VI latency over USB So, I'm trading workflow flexibility, my passion for new VIs, potentially shit latency for said VIs, and LESS GOOD SOUND...for...a smaller footprint? There's logically zero sense to be made from that, but I was sort of obsessed with for the FIRST TIME EVER...not really having a studio in my house (per se)...Keyboard with a laptop dock and a few peripherals. I'm confident I could get into the ballpark of where I'm at (in terms of quality) with SO little footprint. Yet really...why? It's almost like a life disaster plan. Like "I can set his up ANYWHERE and work"... EDIT: But, I also just have that bent: less things. In like 1999'ish, I got on the bent that I had three electric guitars: Tele (w/ Texas Special PUS), Strat, and a Peavey Vandenberg (80s super strat with 25" PRS scale w/Duncan bridge HB)--and I bought a new Strat with a Duncan HB on the bridge and Texas Specials on the middle/neck--thinking that I'd just sell off the other three so I could go back to having "one flexible guitar". I put SO much time and money into tweaking that strat's electronics...trying to get it to be my 'Everything' and it simply wasn't killer at ANYTHING. So, I'd use it live--and nearly never in the studio. More recently, I've been eyeballing a PRS Paul's Guitar...thinking "I'm pretty set in how I play...and that could likely cover me"...one guitar to change strings and polish frets on...etc...It's like a $4k guitar. So, even having "learned my lesson" in that pursuit...still... Appreciate the response. I'm weighing pros and cons as well. Pros are mostly getting everything up to a modern base, power savings and reduction in space used in the studio but I've been less and less compelled to deal with the hardware as I work and a plus would be less noise buildup and faster working. Sonic quality would be more of a side-grade and I don't think modern converters are worthy of worrying about. But you're right. "WHY?" is a good enough reason not to do it until I have to. Like I said before, I know that I'm just looking for ways to spark something in myself by shaking things up and it really doesn't have much to do with needs, and it's not a good enough reason to go on a buying spree. I think. I hope. But if there happens to be a catastrophic failure, there's not much I can do to come back from it as both hardware and software I'm using are now obsolete to the point where I'm not sure I could get it working again with new OS or computer hardware, etc. |
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Post by notneeson on Sept 25, 2020 13:54:24 GMT -6
A few years ago, I was certain that the future of my studio would be a SPL Crimson sitting on my Kronos's blank spot....with a spot for either an iMac or Macbook (and all the periphery it takes to make those viable) perched on a plank on the second tier of the keyboard stand. Speakers on stands. Whole studio. I found myself in cognitive dissonance about it. Name positives: 1- Less physical footprint 2- Probably slightly less power draw 3- Less peripheral pieces involved means...less complications with upgrades 4- Simpler day to day--plug mic or DI into SPL, hit record...vs the patching of outboard into clock sync Burl, etc... Negatives: 1-Less flexible 2-Less sonics 3- Less ability to run cutting edge VIs or expand computer capabilities TO... 4- More VI latency over USB So, I'm trading workflow flexibility, my passion for new VIs, potentially shit latency for said VIs, and LESS GOOD SOUND...for...a smaller footprint? There's logically zero sense to be made from that, but I was sort of obsessed with for the FIRST TIME EVER...not really having a studio in my house (per se)...Keyboard with a laptop dock and a few peripherals. I'm confident I could get into the ballpark of where I'm at (in terms of quality) with SO little footprint. Yet really...why? It's almost like a life disaster plan. Like "I can set his up ANYWHERE and work"... EDIT: But, I also just have that bent: less things. In like 1999'ish, I got on the bent that I had three electric guitars: Tele (w/ Texas Special PUS), Strat, and a Peavey Vandenberg (80s super strat with 25" PRS scale w/Duncan bridge HB)--and I bought a new Strat with a Duncan HB on the bridge and Texas Specials on the middle/neck--thinking that I'd just sell off the other three so I could go back to having "one flexible guitar". I put SO much time and money into tweaking that strat's electronics...trying to get it to be my 'Everything' and it simply wasn't killer at ANYTHING. So, I'd use it live--and nearly never in the studio. More recently, I've been eyeballing a PRS Paul's Guitar...thinking "I'm pretty set in how I play...and that could likely cover me"...one guitar to change strings and polish frets on...etc...It's like a $4k guitar. So, even having "learned my lesson" in that pursuit...still... Appreciate the response. I'm weighing pros and cons as well. Pros are mostly getting everything up to a modern base, power savings and reduction in space used in the studio but I've been less and less compelled to deal with the hardware as I work and a plus would be less noise buildup and faster working. Sonic quality would be more of a side-grade and I don't think modern converters are worthy of worrying about. But you're right. "WHY?" is a good enough reason not to do it until I have to. Like I said before, I know that I'm just looking for ways to spark something in myself by shaking things up and it really doesn't have much to do with needs, and it's not a good enough reason to go on a buying spree. I think. I hope. But if there happens to be a catastrophic failure, there's not much I can do to come back from it as both hardware and software I'm using are now obsolete to the point where I'm not sure I could get it working again with new OS or computer hardware, etc. That’s an interesting thought experiment: how cheaply could you pull together a back up of the obsolete rig just to sit on. (I know that’s not what you are pondering). |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 25, 2020 14:45:39 GMT -6
I'm coming to this from the other angle. I had lots of experience recording in studios and had my own pro home studio back in the analogue days. I left the music business and 15 years later my wife convinced me to do some music work again. So... after looking around, I bought the UAD Apollo the first week it came out. It was essentially, a studio in a box. I had never done any digital recording myself, so my responses were unbiased. The Apollo fulfilled its promise. I was able to record a track for my wedding 3 days after getting it.
So, hearing plug-ins was a new experience, and I had fresh ears. Most were dull, especially Waves and Slate. The UAD Ampex ATR-102 plug was a small miracle, "betterizing" everything as the first thing on my 2 Bus. I tried their compressors and honestly still don't like them. The 1176 was OK. In fact, Logic's compressors are better. Digital reverbs were excellent, so I wasn't missing much there, in fact, I now had more flexibility than ever with the Relab XL 480, Liquid Sonics Bricasti files, Sound Toys Little Plate and Phoenix Verb. I never loved the Apollo converters, but the current generation is fine enough, finally. I occasionally use their Helios and 1073 preamps, but basically track with outboard preamps.
Where I've landed 8 years later is I want a Dangerous Music 2 bus +, which would bring some analogue color back, but I'll keep my outboard pres and maybe upgrade to some others as I go. I've always thought good mics was priority one. Back in the day I used Neumann's. Today I have the Soyuz 0-19, the Stam SA67, Avantone C-95 as a backup, and access to vintage Neumann KM84's and U47 FET's.
So, I'd say keep pairing down Svart. I made my last album here, ITB after tracking, and got unexpected compliments on the audio quality from pros I respect. Keep good pres, keep great mics, no need for hardware reverbs, unless you already have a Bricasti, get great converters, and you'll flow a lot faster.
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Post by svart on Sept 25, 2020 15:11:50 GMT -6
Appreciate the response. I'm weighing pros and cons as well. Pros are mostly getting everything up to a modern base, power savings and reduction in space used in the studio but I've been less and less compelled to deal with the hardware as I work and a plus would be less noise buildup and faster working. Sonic quality would be more of a side-grade and I don't think modern converters are worthy of worrying about. But you're right. "WHY?" is a good enough reason not to do it until I have to. Like I said before, I know that I'm just looking for ways to spark something in myself by shaking things up and it really doesn't have much to do with needs, and it's not a good enough reason to go on a buying spree. I think. I hope. But if there happens to be a catastrophic failure, there's not much I can do to come back from it as both hardware and software I'm using are now obsolete to the point where I'm not sure I could get it working again with new OS or computer hardware, etc. That’s an interesting thought experiment: how cheaply could you pull together a back up of the obsolete rig just to sit on. (I know that’s not what you are pondering). Well, I guess it could be. Since some of the pieces I use are out of production, I'd have to resort to trying to find them used and generally in unknown condition. The MX4 DSP/MADI card is extremely hard to find, with only couple popping up on ebay for $$$$. The Alphalink converters are a little more prolific but also commanding pretty high $$$ used. It'd take me around 2500$ just to replace those with used pieces if they needed to be replaced. The computer would also have to be used pieces and that would probably be another 600$ or more plus the time I'd need to figure out the drivers and such. So, it's almost easier to start again with all new gear. The two MOTU pieces I'd need are about 2K$ and I'd probably get a boss laptop instead of a rack computer, so 700-1K$ for around 3K$ total bill, much the same as it would be trying to replace the old gear with used stuff. At least then I could start fresh and have something modern to start from once again. |
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Post by svart on Sept 25, 2020 15:18:54 GMT -6
I'm coming to this from the other angle. I had lots of experience recording in studios and had my own pro home studio back in the analogue days. I left the music business and 15 years later my wife convinced me to do some music work again. So... after looking around, I bought the UAD Apollo the first week it came out. It was essentially, a studio in a box. I had never done any digital recording myself, so my responses were unbiased. The Apollo fulfilled its promise. I was able to record a track for my wedding 3 days after getting it. So, hearing plug-ins was a new experience, and I had fresh ears. Most were dull, especially Waves and Slate. The UAD Ampex EMT-140 plug was a small miracle, "betterizing" everything as the first thing on my 2 Bus. I tried their compressors and honestly still don't like them. The 1176 was OK. In fact, Logic's compressors are better. Digital reverbs were excellent, so I wasn't missing much there, in fact, I now had more flexibility than ever with the Relab XL 480, Liquid Sonics Bricasti files, Sound Toys Little Plate and Phoenix Verb. I never loved the Apollo converters, but the current generation is fine enough, finally. I occasionally use their Helios and 1073 preamps, but basically track with outboard preamps. Where I've landed 8 years later is I want a Dangerous Music 2 bus +, which would bring some analogue color back, but I'll keep my outboard pres and maybe upgrade to some others as I go. I've always thought good mics was priority one. Back in the day I used Neumann's. Today I have the Soyuz 0-19, the Stam SA67, Avantone C-95 as a backup, and access to vintage Neumann KM84's and U47 FET's. So, I'd say keep pairing down Svart. I made my last album here, ITB after tracking, and got unexpected compliments on the audio quality from pros I respect. Keep good pres, keep great mics, no need for hardware reverbs, unless you already have a Bricasti, get great converters, and you'll flow a lot faster. I think I might try to do an ITB mix on something I've already recorded and mixed a while ago and see how it turns out. I'm sure I could emulate what I've already done but I'm interested in seeing how different the lack of analog gear might make it. You're also right, the software reverbs these days are getting so incredibly good that I no longer even want a Bricasti at all, and that used to be one of my biggest desires for the studio but could never really get around that 3K$ pricetag for one reverb.. The SSL Alphalink converters I'm using do not leave anything to be desired. As long as I don't regress from their quality I won't even notice. Definitely keeping the preamps and maybe a couple hardware devices if I do end up doing all this. |
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Post by ragan on Sept 25, 2020 15:45:02 GMT -6
svart I would encourage a SW vs HW test. They’re always revealing for me. Best way I’ve found is to do a several tracks and listen to them together. Run them through your hardware and through plug-in emulations of that hardware (or as close to that as can be done). RMS normalize everything, group them and then blindly toggle back and forth between the hardware and software group. For me, I need to hear a whole song image (not necessarily a bunch of overdubs but at least like some wide guitars, bass, drums, vox), how things sit in their spaces and interact and punch together. Single comparisons don’t tend to tell me as much about that. I love software and rely heavily on lots of plugins but in many cases hardware still wins for me, sonically. Running tests helps me decide what workflow burdens are worth what sonic gains (or the converse). And getting those mental data points really helps define and delineate various wandering ideas about what to buy or sell or move into or away from.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 25, 2020 18:26:51 GMT -6
I've been in a similar situation for a while.
I've got a Midas Verona for a console, but it has a bunch of minor issues.
Channels 6 and 11 are completely dead. Left channel of the 2 buss is flakey, so I switched to using bus 7-8 as my master. Aux 3 is inconsistent. All of the stereo channels are unbalanced (pulling left or right) and can't be used as stereo. All of this can be worked around, but at the same time, I'm mainly using the board for routing and headphone mixes. I've got stacks of outboard preamps and eq.
I had worked out a deal to bring in a high end small form console as a replacement, but that fell apart.
Now I'm at a crossroads. Do I try to get something high end that I'll use the built in preamps and eqs? Do I get a similar console that will cover the basic needs cheap. Do I ditch a console all together and just set up my tracking gear in a mastering style desk and use digital cue sends?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 25, 2020 23:07:37 GMT -6
Svart, it might take you a while to get the best ITB mixes. Just yesterday I tried adding the UAD Neve channel strip with EQ to a guitar track after I recorded it. Damn if it didn't perk that electric guitar right up.
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Post by popmann on Sept 26, 2020 10:15:03 GMT -6
Id also piint out that if something happened to the SSL card, there are other MADI solutions....to keep on keeping on. Even switching to a laptop, RME has a USB MADIface and the big Thunderbolt+Usb3 UFX+ that has some MADI ports.
Further thought i had later in the day-maybe more philisophical....gear hunting is fun, and part of the learning process. But, there also comes an age where you KNOW what you need, and if you’ve been fortunate enough to put those together, its a little bit like a phantom limb. “Whats new?”....planning....GAS’ing....becuase it as always a healthy part of the pursuit....until its not.
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Post by svart on Sept 26, 2020 10:54:46 GMT -6
Id also piint out that if something happened to the SSL card, there are other MADI solutions....to keep on keeping on. Even switching to a laptop, RME has a USB MADIface and the big Thunderbolt+Usb3 UFX+ that has some MADI ports. Further thought i had later in the day-maybe more philisophical....gear hunting is fun, and part of the learning process. But, there also comes an age where you KNOW what you need, and if you’ve been fortunate enough to put those together, its a little bit like a phantom limb. “Whats new?”....planning....GAS’ing....becuase it as always a healthy part of the pursuit....until its not. The ssl Madi card has DSP based routing that I'm currently using for the low latency headphone returns. I couldn't do that with the DAW routing because the latency would be too much. The motu gear has a comparable option for low latency routing to headphones. |
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Post by popmann on Sept 26, 2020 16:25:17 GMT -6
So does literally every interface that isnt made by Presonus or Avid. Just saying....everything worth buying has hardware DSP routing and basic mixing. Both the RMEs i mentioned will have a whole TOTALMIX mixer for as many channels as there is IO.
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Post by soundintheround on Sept 26, 2020 16:54:06 GMT -6
YES! There’s a fine balance between breaking the whole studio down and starting over vs. actually making some music. Lately I’ve been resisting the urge  |
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Post by sean on Sept 26, 2020 17:02:46 GMT -6
I think I’ve finally convinced myself to suck it up and install the Trident Series 70 that’s been in my laundry room for 2 years and make a real mix room in the basement. Just have to find 3 able bodies to help me move it’s 7’ frame into the room I just don’t think it’ll be in the cards to buy/rent a new tracking space in the next year so I need to make the best use of what I have. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Sept 27, 2020 5:27:30 GMT -6
Do what makes you happy and gets the best results for you or your clients.
What are you missing from your workflow or sound that ITB or Hybrid can add?
I don’t have much HW but what I have does stuff my plugins don’t. Even my WA76 ( I know warm sucks lmao ) but for me it’s better than my best 1176 plugin.
I want more HW but it does add time to mixing esp when PT acts up w/ delay compensation. Then I’m stuck in a rabbit hole making sure my HW inserts/ prints are sample accurate in time not phasing & the client ain’t paying for that smh. This has only happen twice tho so minute compared to the big pic.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Sept 27, 2020 5:30:27 GMT -6
I've been in a similar situation for a while. I've got a Midas Verona for a console, but it has a bunch of minor issues. Channels 6 and 11 are completely dead. Left channel of the 2 buss is flakey, so I switched to using bus 7-8 as my master. Aux 3 is inconsistent. All of the stereo channels are unbalanced (pulling left or right) and can't be used as stereo. All of this can be worked around, but at the same time, I'm mainly using the board for routing and headphone mixes. I've got stacks of outboard preamps and eq. I had worked out a deal to bring in a high end small form console as a replacement, but that fell apart. Now I'm at a crossroads. Do I try to get something high end that I'll use the built in preamps and eqs? Do I get a similar console that will cover the basic needs cheap. Do I ditch a console all together and just set up my tracking gear in a mastering style desk and use digital cue sends? Was shocked when u said u mix ITB. Since you have so many pres and comps I would throw a Hear back system in and ditch the Midas. From your post it sounds like the console is more of a PITA than a workflow enhancer. Also removing the console prob better for monitoring if the console is the center piece still ( the speakers sound bouncing off the console ) |
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Post by christopher on Sept 27, 2020 11:45:01 GMT -6
I think I’ve finally convinced myself to suck it up and install the Trident Series 70 that’s been in my laundry room for 2 years and make a real mix room in the basement. Just have to find 3 able bodies to help me move it’s 7’ frame into the room I just don’t think it’ll be in the cards to buy/rent a new tracking space in the next year so I need to make the best use of what I have. I setup my console (MCI/Sony broadcast board) and 2 track 110 in a cubby corner of the overly cluttered garage. And can only use Ns10s very quietly in untreated bookshelf style setup. It’s very pathetic and embarrassing. I check s/n and lows on headphones. It figures... I’m getting the best mixes I’ve ever gotten, to my ears anyway. The more I use the console the less work I have to do. First I was printing stems only for recall purposes, then started monitoring off the board, now using about 12 tracks of mixing stereo groups. I’ve got the references going through a sub bus w/ EQ so I can boost lows and highs, and match my mix to the monitors. For some reason this is working better than using plugins to correct the monitor low end. I send everything to the same sub group and use EQ to match the bass and drums. After that, bypass that correction EQ, sum and parallel. Then I old school play the faders and sends /returns while printing. It’s fun anyway.. |
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Post by Guitar on Sept 27, 2020 15:30:37 GMT -6
I have fought off this urge a few times. I have also had an ongoing obsession with a "B Rig" or a "mobile rig" that in practice, only gets used maybe once or twice in a year.
It's something you could add on to what you already have without changing anything. If it's compact enough to have around.
I like being able to get to different locations to do the same or similar work. Moving the "big rig" is not something I ever want to experience again.
There can also be some "modular" racks that stay in the A room and go with you when you leave. That's what I'm working on now. There is a secondary computer also, which gives me peace of mind, and I don't like moving around the main computer much anyway.
Think there are going to be two smallish racks. One with the interfaces, one with "high end" mic preamps. Mics and etc go in hard cases or bags, and so on.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 27, 2020 18:40:35 GMT -6
svart I would encourage a SW vs HW test. They’re always revealing for me. Best way I’ve found is to do a several tracks and listen to them together. Run them through your hardware and through plug-in emulations of that hardware (or as close to that as can be done). RMS normalize everything, group them and then blindly toggle back and forth between the hardware and software group. For me, I need to hear a whole song image (not necessarily a bunch of overdubs but at least like some wide guitars, bass, drums, vox), how things sit in their spaces and interact and punch together. Single comparisons don’t tend to tell me as much about that. I love software and rely heavily on lots of plugins but in many cases hardware still wins for me, sonically. Running tests helps me decide what workflow burdens are worth what sonic gains (or the converse). And getting those mental data points really helps define and delineate various wandering ideas about what to buy or sell or move into or away from. YES! With reverb expecially. You CAN'T judge a reverb except in context, in a more or less full mix. |
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