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Post by ragan on May 13, 2021 10:08:04 GMT -6
Nice guitar, is that the tele? Drums are exploding that's a great sound. Thanks! That is a Tele on the right, yeah. Cheap Squier Classic Vibe that I have Cavalier pickups in. I've said it many times but it's one of the guitars I reach for most, despite it being very cheap. Middle guitar is a Gretsch Electromatic (also dirt cheap, and not that great of a guitar, but it's the only thing I've got with a Bigsby at the moment). Les Paul on the left.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 24, 2021 10:51:52 GMT -6
Was this a tweaked preset? I’m going back and forth on buying these
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Post by ragan on Jul 24, 2021 11:00:30 GMT -6
Was this a tweaked preset? I’m going back and forth on buying these No. I haven't actually ever used an SD3 preset. I dunno, when I load them to check them out I get all "wait, what's going on? Why is that routed over there? What's that weird ambience doing and how do I get rid of it?" I just always want to start with the raw kit and go from there I guess.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 24, 2021 12:48:09 GMT -6
Was this a tweaked preset? I’m going back and forth on buying these No. I haven't actually ever used an SD3 preset. I dunno, when I load them to check them out I get all "wait, what's going on? Why is that routed over there? What's that weird ambience doing and how do I get rid of it?" I just always want to start with the raw kit and go from there I guess. I’ve usually just tweaked. But I think I need to sit down and start from scratch. Problem is, sometimes what sounds great to me solo isn’t what works in the mix. Probably just need to forgo all processing but the room - track them - then treat them like I’m mixing real drums. You mind sharing one of your presets like in Just Got Lost? Drums are my bugaboo - not familiar enough with them to go “oh - that sound - that’s a Rogers blah blah.”
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Post by ragan on Jul 24, 2021 14:51:27 GMT -6
No. I haven't actually ever used an SD3 preset. I dunno, when I load them to check them out I get all "wait, what's going on? Why is that routed over there? What's that weird ambience doing and how do I get rid of it?" I just always want to start with the raw kit and go from there I guess. I’ve usually just tweaked. But I think I need to sit down and start from scratch. Problem is, sometimes what sounds great to me solo isn’t what works in the mix. Probably just need to forgo all processing but the room - track them - then treat them like I’m mixing real drums. You mind sharing one of your presets like in Just Got Lost? Drums are my bugaboo - not familiar enough with them to go “oh - that sound - that’s a Rogers blah blah.” Yeah you bet. Standby...
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 24, 2021 14:56:29 GMT -6
Some of those Sparkle and Oyster presets sound pretty damn good
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Post by ragan on Jul 24, 2021 15:21:57 GMT -6
Johnkenn So here's what's going on on Just Got Lost. I hadn't remembered this but I apparently used the Kramer drums. I thought it was Indiependent. This is the Ludwig Keystone kit with the Rogers 60s Dynasonic snare. I've also got a snare sample stacked on, which is a one shot of my brother's Rogers Dynasonic from the drum tracking for this record. Coincidence that it's the same kind of snare, I wasn't trying to match it up intentionally. I pretty much always mess around with the tuning, the velocity curve and the envelope. The kick has an overdriven 909 sample stacked on it, from the SD3 electronic sample library. No internal SD3 bussing or processing. I always have the bleeds on for every mic unless something is problematic. X-Kick is the 909 sample and X-User Mic1 is my own Rogers snare one shot sample. There are various bussing things going on in PT, but mostly it's an aux with everything going to it (Drums), another aux with only certain things going to it (DrumsCmp) which has heavy compression on it. This is usually mostly just individual drum mics, not OH or ambient mics. These two auxes feed the final drum aux (DRUMS) which goes to the mixbus. Also on this record we tracked cymbals separately so there are a pair of cymbal room mics and also cymbal OH mics going to their own aux (CymbalAUX) which feed into the regular/non-compressed drum aux (Drums). There are a few ducking type things going on, like the toms having a send on Bus 39. The instance of The Glue on the hi-hats (Hats.BD) is using Bus 39 to duck the toms out of them. That's unusual for me and I don't remember why I decided I needed to do that. The tracks that are from my own tracking (not SD3) are Kick.BD (which is all the way down), SN.BD (also muted), the OH tracks, Rack.BD, Floor.BD, Hats.BD, and Hall.BD (a mic down my hall, which kinda sounded like crap but I got some use out of it). Also the cymbals. Insert 5-6 on the main DRUMS aux is a pair of WA76.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 24, 2021 15:47:17 GMT -6
Thanks! Where are your toms? Am I missing them? I do like the idea of getting the raw sounds and skipping all the dippity do in SD3...for some reason, I think I've been way too passive about shaping the sounds coming out of SD3 compared to how I would shape them if they were real drums. Not sure why - just a mind block.
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Post by ragan on Jul 24, 2021 15:51:49 GMT -6
Thanks! Where are your toms? Am I missing them? I do like the idea of getting the raw sounds and skipping all the dippity do in SD3...for some reason, I think I've been way too passive about shaping the sounds coming out of SD3 compared to how I would shape them if they were real drums. Not sure why - just a mind block. Yeah man, go nuts! That's the whole point for my purposes, treat SD3 like just mic'd drums. Plus I haven't found the internal SD3 plugins to sound all that great. Re: toms, I had the toms converted to MIDI via Tracker so that they'd be there in the OH and room mics and whatnot, but I wasn't using the SD3 close tom mics. Rack.BD and Floor.BD are the toms from the actual drums I tracked, so I'm using those.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 24, 2021 16:02:26 GMT -6
Bought the SDX...I need to sell a few I don't really use.
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Post by wiz on Jul 24, 2021 17:32:29 GMT -6
Bought the SDX...I need to sell a few I don't really use. Damn I would have sold you mine…..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 25, 2021 6:51:37 GMT -6
Something about the snare has always bugged me about SD2, I haven't used SD3 yet, but the sound of Ragan's snare bugs me the same way. It's just too hard a whack and boom. I've tried everything I can to adjust that, but failed every time. More digitally adept musicians might have a workaround, but it's the main reason I just want a real drummer again.
I met with Albert Bouchard a few weeks ago. He's with the Blue Oyster Cult, among other great projects. He's a friend of a friend and lives in my building. I never knew, ha! He promised to help me a bit on getting SD3 right. Hopefully that will happen soon, I'm about to move.
Something confuses me, as does UAD's Luna. I never used SD2's mixer, I sent either stereo tracks to Logic, or all the individual drums to Logic. From there, I'd add some processing, not much, but my own choices. Ocean Way for room sound, (sometimes), Seventh Heaven for the main reverb sound, API 2500 on a bus for some light compression on drums, etc..
Why would I want to use SD's mixer?
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 25, 2021 7:13:58 GMT -6
All (most?) drum programs, let you individually tweak each component of the kit, including it’s dynamics, so you might be able to control the snare to your preference in the sd2 mixer and then output it as you normally would ?
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2021 9:04:42 GMT -6
With the velocity curve, tuning, and envelope you can pretty much literally make the snare be anything you want.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2021 9:31:31 GMT -6
Bought the SDX...I need to sell a few I don't really use. Damn I would have sold you mine….. Damnit
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2021 9:38:47 GMT -6
There’s some really good stuff in Legacy. And some excellent starting places - surprisingly in the Toontrack presets. ragan are you sometimes shortening the envelope? Like - sometimes the kick is out of control a little. For stacking, I’ve got to figure out how to assign it to my maschine…I can assign the stack hit, but then strangely, I lose the use of several other kit pieces. These Oyster and Sparkle kits might end up being my go-tos. Not much use for some of the kicks, but I like the snares and some of the cymbals.
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2021 9:51:22 GMT -6
There’s some really good stuff in Legacy. And some excellent starting places - surprisingly in the Toontrack presets. ragan are you sometimes shortening the envelope? Like - sometimes the kick is out of control a little. For stacking, I’ve got to figure out how to assign it to my maschine…I can assign the stack hit, but then strangely, I lose the use of several other kit pieces. These Oyster and Sparkle kits might end up being my go-tos. Not much use for some of the kicks, but I like the snares and some of the cymbals. Yeah I do shorten the decay with the envelope parameters sometimes. I also use Transient Designer on kicks a lot, pulling the ambience way down.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2021 9:53:33 GMT -6
There’s some really good stuff in Legacy. And some excellent starting places - surprisingly in the Toontrack presets. ragan are you sometimes shortening the envelope? Like - sometimes the kick is out of control a little. For stacking, I’ve got to figure out how to assign it to my maschine…I can assign the stack hit, but then strangely, I lose the use of several other kit pieces. These Oyster and Sparkle kits might end up being my go-tos. Not much use for some of the kicks, but I like the snares and some of the cymbals. Yeah I do shorten the decay with the envelope parameters sometimes. I also use Transient Designer on kicks a lot, pulling the ambience way down. Yeah and the 909 adds thump instead of bong I guess.
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2021 11:47:36 GMT -6
Something about the snare has always bugged me about SD2, I haven't used SD3 yet, but the sound of Ragan's snare bugs me the same way. It's just too hard a whack and boom. I've tried everything I can to adjust that, but failed every time. More digitally adept musicians might have a workaround, but it's the main reason I just want a real drummer again. I met with Albert Bouchard a few weeks ago. He's with the Blue Oyster Cult, among other great projects. He's a friend of a friend and lives in my building. I never knew, ha! He promised to help me a bit on getting SD3 right. Hopefully that will happen soon, I'm about to move. Something confuses me, as does UAD's Luna. I never used SD2's mixer, I sent either stereo tracks to Logic, or all the individual drums to Logic. From there, I'd add some processing, not much, but my own choices. Ocean Way for room sound, (sometimes), Seventh Heaven for the main reverb sound, API 2500 on a bus for some light compression on drums, etc.. Why would I want to use SD's mixer? Also probably worth noting/clarifying that the images I posted in response to John are from the mix session for one of the tracks off the record I just released (you can find it here: realgearonline.com/thread/12991/ragan-crowe-damnedest-daylight-shines) and not from the clips I've posted in this thread.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2021 12:41:00 GMT -6
ragan is that just nonlin verb on the snare?
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2021 12:58:49 GMT -6
ragan is that just nonlin verb on the snare? I’m not sure what you’re referencing. A PT insert or send or something? I don’t think there’s any reverb on the snare.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2021 13:21:02 GMT -6
Maybe it's just some manipulation of the envelope...but in just got lost, gold, etc. Almost sounds like a nonlinear thing
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2021 13:37:49 GMT -6
Maybe it's just some manipulation of the envelope...but in just got lost, gold, etc. Almost sounds like a nonlinear thing Ah gotcha. I don’t think there’s any reverb on either. It’s just SD3 room sounds being compressed and extended. I rarely use reverb on drums.
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Post by notneeson on Jul 25, 2021 13:55:56 GMT -6
Maybe it's just some manipulation of the envelope...but in just got lost, gold, etc. Almost sounds like a nonlinear thing Ah gotcha. I don’t think there’s any reverb on either. It’s just SD3 room sounds being compressed and extended. I rarely use reverb on drums. Do you delay your rooms? No repeats, but shift them back?
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2021 14:02:04 GMT -6
Ah gotcha. I don’t think there’s any reverb on either. It’s just SD3 room sounds being compressed and extended. I rarely use reverb on drums. Do you delay your rooms? No repeats, but shift them back? I don't. I'll try it though! I think I've done that in the past, don't really remember what my impression of it was.
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