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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 19:17:39 GMT -6
It's my turn to ask a mic question. I have a friend who's an extraordinary classical pianist. He also owns the finest Steinway D I've ever recorded. He's got a number of pieces he'd like to record, but I'm not at all keen on stepping onto a university campus for a while. So I'm wondering if there's any way at all we can get a recording in his home (with me providing remote advice). He's got a pair of Steinways in the room and there's absolutely no extra space in there. I suppose there might be a close-mic situation that would work, but mics would have to be right down on the strings. So I'm wondering if anybody has had any luck with contact mics or perhaps something like Helpinstills. I know there's probably going to be tons of corrective EQ and more than a little added ambience.
I'd really rather record this piano as I've done many times before. But these aren't exactly regular times. I've been able to find decent workarounds for my friends who play strings, but piano is a different beast entirely.
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Post by matt@IAA on Aug 20, 2020 19:30:54 GMT -6
Piano is difficult under normal circumstances. I recorded a friend in his house a few years ago, though, in a teeny tiny room. I used a pair of LDCs right up under the lid, peeking in with the lid in the lowest “open” position. One aimed at the high end and one at the low. I think I had a third one under the body, in the back, but I don’t think I used it. It took a bit to get the right position and balance but it sounded good. The piece was pretty powerful and that setup captured the percussive energy well.
Then I ran a SDC Omni outside the door to the room, about 10’’ away, pointed it up and out to the house. The piano room opened to a two story foyer, wood floors, so there was some really nice ambience to blend in.
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Post by matt@IAA on Aug 20, 2020 19:31:38 GMT -6
Don’t forget to turn the ac off... 🤦♂️
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 19:47:32 GMT -6
Don’t forget to turn the ac off... 🤦♂️ Might have to get him to wait a while. It's been 100+ here most of the month! The auditorium we'd record in is terrible for HVAC. Acoustics are nice, but the place really roars. I've spent days in RX getting his recordings cleaned up. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 20, 2020 20:10:11 GMT -6
Well I've had great results recording piano's outside, a Steinway D actually, with just some DPA4060s. They come with some little mag mounts that I attach to the metal frame of the piano. You can close the lid too. Or put them on the underside of the frame against the sound board with wind protection.
Works pretty well. SUPER close sounding though.
Earthworks makes a stereo piano bar as well, which I've also used and had good results. But gets a lot of hammer/pedal noise.
You could look at just getting a mic clamp and setup and ORTF or X/Y and put the clamp on the center brace with the mics pointed towards the hammers. That'll give you a lot of that weird L/R panning affect though which for Classical is not something I'm a fan of.
I've done some good living room stuff though with the DPA4060s and then a pair of DPA4041s on a Grace Space bar(the small stereo one) and just set it off the pianos about 5' and miced like a normal nice A/B pair for Piano. Couldn't do that?
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 20, 2020 20:39:42 GMT -6
There are a couple of OK systems nothing great, but if I was buying I would check with the guys at Clair Global used gear and see if I could cut a great deal right now.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 20, 2020 22:21:16 GMT -6
Yeah, 4060’s inside do a surprisingly good job, I can always work with that. Worth trying their boundary mount.
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Post by nnajar on Aug 20, 2020 23:07:15 GMT -6
4060’s taped to the lid gets my vote. I’ve recorded many pianos that way.
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Post by stormymondays on Aug 21, 2020 6:06:21 GMT -6
Came here to suggest DPA 4060 too!  I've only used them on uprights, with the boundary mount and gaffer tape, but they sound great! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 6:09:11 GMT -6
4060’s taped to the lid gets my vote. I’ve recorded many pianos that way. I've used a 4060 stuck to the bottom of the soundboard as a spot, but have generally had a tree for main pickup. It's encouraging to hear of other success with it. I'm going to have to talk to the pianist about it. Ideally I want a setup he can manage on his own, once we figure out placement. I think my selling point is going to be that he can do this at home without worrying about having the piano moved or limited hours in the hall. I'd then be just the advisor/editor. His comfort level with the tech is going to be key. But what I'm not hearing (yet, anyway) is love for contact solutions. In my mind it must be awful, but I've never tried. |
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Post by nnajar on Aug 21, 2020 12:25:15 GMT -6
4060’s taped to the lid gets my vote. I’ve recorded many pianos that way. I've used a 4060 stuck to the bottom of the soundboard as a spot, but have generally had a tree for main pickup. It's encouraging to hear of other success with it. I'm going to have to talk to the pianist about it. Ideally I want a setup he can manage on his own, once we figure out placement. I think my selling point is going to be that he can do this at home without worrying about having the piano moved or limited hours in the hall. I'd then be just the advisor/editor. His comfort level with the tech is going to be key. But what I'm not hearing (yet, anyway) is love for contact solutions. In my mind it must be awful, but I've never tried. I think the DPA Lav (or any good lav) taped to the underside of the lid as a BLM in this scenario gives every advantage of a contact mic but with a sound more like a real piano. I've had times where, because of sound reinforcement, the lavs inside still weren't good enough and the little AKG contact mic - C411 I think - can provide a "usable" result. My opinion is that the barcus berry piano contact mic is DREADFUL but can be useful on a loud stage.... still if your needs are that severe I think it's better to stick a midi controller inside a piano housing and go digital. I digress.... But your friend isn't dealing with extra sound on stage to compete with or sound reinforcement or anything like that, so I think the lavs inside the piano is still the most appropriate solution for the stated scenario. |
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Post by EmRR on Aug 21, 2020 12:58:25 GMT -6
I'll say it again, the 4060 boundary mounts are well worth having, versus just taping them.
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Post by yotonic on Aug 21, 2020 18:37:26 GMT -6
I was impressed with the tone Andrew McMahon gets out of a Baldwin using a pair of
Shure Beta 91A Condenser Boundary Microphones
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Post by yotonic on Aug 21, 2020 18:46:12 GMT -6
I was impressed with the tone Andrew McMahon gets out of a Baldwin using a pair of
Shure Beta 91A Condenser Boundary Microphones
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I've only used them on uprights, with the boundary mount and gaffer tape, but they sound great!