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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 24, 2020 23:31:51 GMT -6
Get one SR-2N (if not both) now and thank me later. Once I got my pair there was no need to keep using any "cheap but cool" ribbon... or to save up for more expensive ones! $1080 for a matched pair? Kind of a no-brainer. vintageking.com/stager-microphones-sr-2n-matched-pair Looks great, but I’m not sure *anything* over $1000 is a no-brainer in my household. Well, except for the MRI I just had. That was a no-brainer. OK, that didn’t go where I expected when I started this reply. Let me try again: Purely restricting oneself to physical goods, I’m not sure anything over $1000 is a no-brainer in my household.
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Post by Omicron9 on Aug 25, 2020 6:51:25 GMT -6
For OH duties, piano, and others, I nominate the stereo Cascade. I've had mine for years and am always pleasantly surprised with it on various sources.
-09
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Post by Ward on Aug 25, 2020 8:13:09 GMT -6
M160 is a Hypercardioid, meaning it has a small rear lobe of pickup. The front lobe is more "narrow" or pointed than a cardioid. The rear lobe is much smaller than a figure 8 though. The nulls would be at some angle to the rear of the mic, not 180 degrees opposite. Here's a graph I found. This graph is calling the nulls 120 degrees and 240 degrees off axis. I'm no great fan of MS but a Beyer M160 and a M130 is a magical combination.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,919
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Post by ericn on Aug 25, 2020 8:16:22 GMT -6
M160 is a Hypercardioid, meaning it has a small rear lobe of pickup. The front lobe is more "narrow" or pointed than a cardioid. The rear lobe is much smaller than a figure 8 though. The nulls would be at some angle to the rear of the mic, not 180 degrees opposite. Here's a graph I found. This graph is calling the nulls 120 degrees and 240 degrees off axis. I'm no great fan of MS but a Beyer M160 and a M130 is a magical combination. Yep, but if you ever get a chance to try the Fostex M/S printed ribbon, you might convert.
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Post by Quint on Aug 25, 2020 8:26:52 GMT -6
I'm no great fan of MS but a Beyer M160 and a M130 is a magical combination. Yep, but if you ever get a chance to try the Fostex M/S printed ribbon, you might convert. Tell me more.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 25, 2020 8:28:03 GMT -6
M160 is a Hypercardioid, meaning it has a small rear lobe of pickup. The front lobe is more "narrow" or pointed than a cardioid. The rear lobe is much smaller than a figure 8 though. The nulls would be at some angle to the rear of the mic, not 180 degrees opposite. Here's a graph I found. This graph is calling the nulls 120 degrees and 240 degrees off axis. I'm no great fan of MS but a Beyer M160 and a M130 is a magical combination. I use an EV RE11 mid and MXL R80 side in front of my drum kit, it's kind of a wonderful combination. If I had an M160 I would definitely try it in the middle.
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Post by Ward on Aug 25, 2020 9:04:06 GMT -6
I'm no great fan of MS but a Beyer M160 and a M130 is a magical combination. Yep, but if you ever get a chance to try the Fostex M/S printed ribbon, you might convert. I have the Fostex M88RP printed ribbon mic like this one . . . But you must be referring to the M22, correct ?
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 25, 2020 9:14:42 GMT -6
Yep, but if you ever get a chance to try the Fostex M/S printed ribbon, you might convert. I have the Fostex M88RP printed ribbon mic like this one . . . But you must be referring to the M22, correct ? Yeah the M22 www.coutant.org/m22rp/index.html
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 25, 2020 9:16:44 GMT -6
Yep, but if you ever get a chance to try the Fostex M/S printed ribbon, you might convert. Tell me more. The Fostex M22, a little shy in the lowend, but the thing was just so easy to get a great stereo recording out of. Plus you can use it as a pretty decent mono mic.
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Post by Michael O. on Aug 25, 2020 13:01:08 GMT -6
I'm no great fan of MS but a Beyer M160 and a M130 is a magical combination. Yep, but if you ever get a chance to try the Fostex M/S printed ribbon, you might convert. Completely forgot about the Foster printed ribbon mics, they’re excellent! I’ve used them but never owned one though, maybe time to change that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 14:35:24 GMT -6
M160 is a Hypercardioid, meaning it has a small rear lobe of pickup. The front lobe is more "narrow" or pointed than a cardioid. The rear lobe is much smaller than a figure 8 though. The nulls would be at some angle to the rear of the mic, not 180 degrees opposite. Here's a graph I found. This graph is calling the nulls 120 degrees and 240 degrees off axis. Right. The M160 is different than most ribbons, which are in figure 8. I guess what I was trying to ask was how much of the stereo localization, that Sloweye mentioned, is due to a narrower hypercardiod pickup pattern on the front of the M160 versus the fact that it doesn't pick up in the back near as much as a typical ribbon? I'm guessing it's probably some of both. I'm sure it's both, but if I'm trusting my ears, it's more the former. To be a little clearer though, I've gotten better separation out of them than ANY mic I've used. 441 is probably a close second. Those are super-cardioid.
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Post by Ward on Aug 25, 2020 21:32:07 GMT -6
Yep, but if you ever get a chance to try the Fostex M/S printed ribbon, you might convert. Completely forgot about the Foster printed ribbon mics, they’re excellent! I’ve used them but never owned one though, maybe time to change that. I predict a sudden rise in the prices of used Fostex printer ribbon microphones by tomorrow.
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Post by terryaudio on Aug 27, 2020 18:42:50 GMT -6
Beyer M260. The rolloff is perfect. Great for everything. Vintage ones have them on a rotary switch - M or V.
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Post by Ward on Aug 28, 2020 6:45:23 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Sept 2, 2020 14:05:41 GMT -6
So I went ahead and picked up a pair of Stager SR-2n. I'm still thinking I'm probably going to get a pair of the Bumblebee RM-5, but the conversation about Beyer M160 got me interested in those as well.
I always forget about them, but the fact that they null pretty well to the rear (as well as the sides), and have a hypercardiod-ish pattern to the front, all with a ribbon sound, has me thinking about these.
How does the M160 compare in sound to the SR-2n or the RM-5/RM-6?
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Post by jamiesego on Sept 2, 2020 15:15:50 GMT -6
So I went ahead and picked up a pair of Stager SR-2n. I'm still thinking I'm probably going to get a pair of the Bumblebee RM-5, but the conversation about Beyer M160 got me interested in those as well. I always forget about them, but the fact that they null pretty well to the rear (as well as the sides), and have a hypercardiod-ish pattern to the front, all with a ribbon sound, has me thinking about these. How does the M160 compare in sound to the SR-2n or the RM-5/RM-6? I’ve never tried the bumblebees but I have an SR-2n and two M160’s. All the Stagers have a huge low end and proximity effect. It’s great for a lot of things like in front of a drum kit or thinner vocals. M160’s are a little more focused in the upper mids somewhat similar to 4038 or maybe a slightly more “vintage” sounding 121. They sound great on a small body acoustic, especially fingerpicked. The tight hypercardioid is really useful in many situations. You could a get a killer drum sound with just an SR-2n in front of the kit and an M160 on overhead. Plus with the M160 you can tell clients it’s the Zep drum room mic or the Hendrix vocal and guitar mic. 😉
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Post by Quint on Sept 2, 2020 19:51:40 GMT -6
So I went ahead and picked up a pair of Stager SR-2n. I'm still thinking I'm probably going to get a pair of the Bumblebee RM-5, but the conversation about Beyer M160 got me interested in those as well. I always forget about them, but the fact that they null pretty well to the rear (as well as the sides), and have a hypercardiod-ish pattern to the front, all with a ribbon sound, has me thinking about these. How does the M160 compare in sound to the SR-2n or the RM-5/RM-6? I’ve never tried the bumblebees but I have an SR-2n and two M160’s. All the Stagers have a huge low end and proximity effect. It’s great for a lot of things like in front of a drum kit or thinner vocals. M160’s are a little more focused in the upper mids somewhat similar to 4038 or maybe a slightly more “vintage” sounding 121. They sound great on a small body acoustic, especially fingerpicked. The tight hypercardioid is really useful in many situations. You could a get a killer drum sound with just an SR-2n in front of the kit and an M160 on overhead. Plus with the M160 you can tell clients it’s the Zep drum room mic or the Hendrix vocal and guitar mic. 😉 I like the idea of having a pair of the M160 around for guitar amps in a live band tracking situation. Seems like you could have your cake and eat it too, as far as getting a nice ribbon sound without a ton of potential bleed coming in from the rear lobe, as would be the case if you were using a typical fig8 ribbon. Based on the upper mid focus you describe, that might make these perfect for amps. I may have to pick up a pair sooner than later.
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Post by dagogo on Sept 2, 2020 20:13:53 GMT -6
I used to have M160, M260, and 4038 and ended up selling all because I never used them. But of course, now I want to buy another ribbon mic. My room is much smaller now and I think I would benefit by having that option.
Those Stagers look nice so I'll be interested to hear your impressions.
Has anyone ever heard those RM BIV Russian ribbons? He made a stereo ribbon I was curious about a few years ago but it looks like it's discontinued.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 4, 2020 16:52:33 GMT -6
I have an M260 that has been "77-DX-ed" by Stephen Sank. It is brighter than the Bumblebee mics. I tend to use it on guitar amps as it sounds nice and has low output.
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Post by Quint on Sept 4, 2020 17:23:02 GMT -6
I have an M260 that has been "77-DX-ed" by Stephen Sank. It is brighter than the Bumblebee mics. I tend to use it on guitar amps as it sounds nice and has low output. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a pair of Bumblebees, most likely the RM-5. If I were to apply some high freq eq to the RM-5, how close can that get me to the sound of the RM-6? I think I generally prefer the darker sound of the RM-5, but I could see where the brighter sound of the RM-6 could he cool too. It would be great if adding some simple eq to the RM-5 would get you most of the way there to sounding like an RM-6.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 4, 2020 18:00:19 GMT -6
The differences between the RM-5 and RM-6 are not just EQ, but also transient response due to the mass of the ribbon. The RM-5 has a 2" long 2.5 micron ribbon. The RM-6 has a 1" long 1.2 micron ribbon.
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Post by drumsound on Sept 4, 2020 23:05:31 GMT -6
I will second the sE VR1 as exceptional for the price. This is me using two of them about 3 feet away singing and playing a song about moving to TX when my wife got a promotion. I like them a lot. I also have a more expensive KSM313 that is better but it’s also 3 times the price. drive.google.com/file/d/1qlS4vqyb199u0nFPTYrzMxrk_vvZw07J/view?usp=drivesdkEdited to add that this is straight into my apollo twin that I was using at the time with no other processing They sound even better using my Daking pres. That's a great song, and recording. I usually don't like ribbons on acoustics, but its perfect on this. nice work. That is pretty great. That's a pretty compelling recording. Especially as it seems to be done in an incredibly small box of a room with parallel walls, and such. Wonder if they lip sync'd it. Mic's reach and immediacy seems very excellent. A well done recording for 2 mics and simultaneous performance. Ahh...went back and re-read the description - it was a lip sync. But it was still recorded in one pass. Makes sense to me as the sync was a little off sometimes, and the blend with the musicians as seated in the video is a little suspect. and the thing that really freaks me out is how much the shaker player looks like a young tom petty. Haha! Buy the 5's! I thought the same thing about the Petty looking guy! Looks great, but I’m not sure *anything* over $1000 is a no-brainer in my household. Well, except for the MRI I just had. That was a no-brainer. OK, that didn’t go where I expected when I started this reply. Let me try again: Purely restricting oneself to physical goods, I’m not sure anything over $1000 is a no-brainer in my household. Your MRI found no brain!?! Completely forgot about the Foster printed ribbon mics, they’re excellent! I’ve used them but never owned one though, maybe time to change that. I predict a sudden rise in the prices of used Fostex printer ribbon microphones by tomorrow. I have one of the end address Fostex ribbons. I was amazing once on a harmonica...even with a Mackie and ADATS. The last time I used it it was humming. I should have it looked at. And I need to send my Shure 315 to Kane. As to the sE ribbons, even the lowley x1Rs sound good. I have a pair.
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Post by Quint on Sept 5, 2020 9:33:51 GMT -6
The differences between the RM-5 and RM-6 are not just EQ, but also transient response due to the mass of the ribbon. The RM-5 has a 2" long 2.5 micron ribbon. The RM-6 has a 1" long 1.2 micron ribbon. True. Though I guess I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing for room mics.
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Post by Quint on Oct 8, 2020 13:54:08 GMT -6
I ordered a pair of the Bumblebee RM-5. I look forward to trying them out. Thanks for the recommendation on those. I was previously unaware of these mics.
I still want a pair of M160, but that'll have to be later down the road. The Stagers and Bumblebees are it on ribbon purchases for now.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 23, 2020 13:09:40 GMT -6
There seems to be a lot of love for the Stager ribbons here. I own an AEA 84 that works well for certain vocalists. How’s the SR 2N for vocals? I’m seeing lots of online pics of it on amps and drums but not vocals.
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