|
Post by samuelpepys on Aug 20, 2020 17:49:41 GMT -6
Hi again! As I mentioned in my previous thread (thanks for the awesome tips!), I haven't been working professionally in some years. I was practically raised on an SSL 4040 console. I believe we bought it from Air Studios, London, but it was a long time ago, so I can't remember. Anyways, I worked on both our large Neve VR and our huge 72 channel Neve VX consoles, but mainly used the 48 channel 4040 for both tracking and mixing.
Lately, when researching racking a few strips for familiarity's sake, I've discovered how much people really don't care for the pre's, EQ's or indeed any part of the strips. The sole focus seems to be the bus compressor. Well, I can understand that, engaging that was always the highlight of my day just as much as I enjoyed engaging our Pultecs (once, we did both at the same time!!! Almost came through my nose, I think), but no interest seems to be paid to the pre's or EQ's of these old consoles. This is my observations of the paradigm that exist on the purple site at least.
Do you share these observations? When I tracked through the SSl, I felt a SERIOUSLY fat bottom end that blew both our Neve's right out of the water. I didn't want to track on those things, as they were so mid heavy and thin compared to the fat bottomed and silk topped SSL. This goes against what I read on the purple site, that the SSL lacked the bottom end magic that the Neve's had. Off course, they may be referring exclusively to the "real" vintage ones, but I haven't heard anything fatter than what went trough that 4040 console since, and nothing better coming out of expensive boutique pre's, so I wonder: Am I insane, or are the SSL pre's actually pretty extraordinary? Underappreciated, or nothing special?
EDIT: I've used the SSL VHD's a lot. I have 12 channels of them in the studio I've been working in the last couple of years, and they are NOTHING like the ones I used in that 4040. But then again, some of those consoles had transformers, and some didn't have. I have no idea if ours did.
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Aug 20, 2020 18:02:41 GMT -6
I have no problems with the J, K, duality, or aws preamps. They sound better than just fine to me. The eq’s are also fantastic.
Now, it sounds like the Neve’s you were working on were in bad need of a re-cap, but any old desk can get like this and lose low end over time if the channel strips aren’t up to spec. Including the old 4K ssl’s.
|
|
|
Post by samuelpepys on Aug 20, 2020 18:20:17 GMT -6
Hmmm. I highly doubt they weren't recapped. They were completely serviced at least once when I was there, and I was only there for a couple of years. The neve's were kept in pretty good conditions, as they were the bread and butter of the whole studio operation. The SSl and it's dedicated control room was basically "my" little studio, and failed in every single way I can imagine during our time together, but sounded so much better than the Neve's in my opinion.
This was recorded on the 72 channel Neve. All console pre's I believe. It lacks the depth and thickness that the SSl had. Still sounds good. But the SSL just had a massive sound, at least the channels that worked, hehe.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Aug 20, 2020 18:27:14 GMT -6
I’ve only used old 4K series EQs in a custom rack, but I thought they were great and had a very familiar “rock” oriented sound on drums. Ordered the Stam version for that reason.
Good friend of mine used to help look after The Grateful Dead’s V series and it had all kinds of bad caps due to heat issues, FWIW. And the sheer number of caps was pretty staggering as well.
Anyway, there are loads of great outboard preamps these days, happy hunting.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,809
|
Post by ericn on Aug 20, 2020 20:00:23 GMT -6
Dirty little secret we all used them, your just not allowed to admit it, but for the money these days pretty easy to beat.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 20, 2020 21:01:09 GMT -6
Dirty little secret we all used them. Speak for yourself!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 20, 2020 21:04:03 GMT -6
Am I insane, or are the SSL pre's actually pretty extraordinary?. I don't know you well enough to make a clinical diagnosis, but you just might be. Or maybe you are just an extraordinary engineer who can make meh preamps sound massive!! I can't think of the SSL's as "massive" in any world I've lived in, but then again, the V series Neves were pretty much Neve in name only. Meh. Certainly, neither has an extraordinary pre-amp - as far as preamps go that is. I was OK with the 9000j/k's in a pinch.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,809
|
Post by ericn on Aug 20, 2020 21:21:49 GMT -6
Dirty little secret we all used them. Speak for yourself!!!!! See 😁 We don’t admit it, hey I have been drinking so I get a pass. They were there, easy to use and a bunch of them !
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Aug 20, 2020 21:57:10 GMT -6
Aren't SSLs the reason that the whole outboard preamp craze started?
As for the Neve V series, those things were/are maintenance HOGS! I know someone who had a huge one (60 inputs I think) and he once joked with me that it was good because of how often he had to patch to different channels because there was always something going wrong. That said, some of the things he mixed on that thing sound great. He's a wizard! Also remember, Mr. Neve had nothing to do with those consoles.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 22:05:57 GMT -6
The current SSL pres are better than than most of the THAT and TI chip pres that come in interfaces. That's about it. I'd honestly take an Apogee pre over it though. The soft limit is an ass saver.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 23:42:01 GMT -6
No, i'm perfectly fine if that's mostly a studio has. I'd just make it work.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Aug 21, 2020 4:09:38 GMT -6
Every time I recorded on high end SSL preamp or an actual console I was always shocked how good they sounded. I owned an SSL Alpha Channel for a while, but never really loved the preamp next to some of my other preamps. I also didn’t love all the corners they cut to get to that price point. Still, I did some classical session work and the producer/composer requested the SSL specifically over my Neve pieces for the sake of clarity. I foresee a pair of 500 series channel strips in my future; preamp, EQ, and Dynamics module.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Aug 21, 2020 9:23:19 GMT -6
Aren't SSLs the reason that the whole outboard preamp craze started? As for the Neve V series, those things were/are maintenance HOGS! I know someone who had a huge one (60 inputs I think) and he once joked with me that it was good because of how often he had to patch to different channels because there was always something going wrong. That said, some of the things he mixed on that thing sound great. He's a wizard! Also remember, Mr. Neve had nothing to do with those consoles. Some of the old timers on the webs point to MCI, FWIW.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 21, 2020 10:57:11 GMT -6
I love the SSL 4k eqs. Flexibility to do anything. I wish I had a rack of them for tracking.
I never felt anything special with the preamps, but they aren't garbage either.
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Aug 21, 2020 11:06:03 GMT -6
Aren't SSLs the reason that the whole outboard preamp craze started? As for the Neve V series, those things were/are maintenance HOGS! I know someone who had a huge one (60 inputs I think) and he once joked with me that it was good because of how often he had to patch to different channels because there was always something going wrong. That said, some of the things he mixed on that thing sound great. He's a wizard! Also remember, Mr. Neve had nothing to do with those consoles. Some of the old timers on the webs point to MCI, FWIW. I'm sure that's true. MCI is kind of a polarizing brand.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,809
|
Post by ericn on Aug 21, 2020 11:18:38 GMT -6
Some of the old timers on the webs point to MCI, FWIW. I'm sure that's true. MCI is kind of a polarizing brand. Both, while the folks at Criteria had hits with MCI it was never really considered to be up there with Neve, API, ect. Nobody in the 80’s bought an SSL for the sound, it was all about recall and automation. Add some decent outboard pre’s with either and you could keep the place booked.
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Aug 21, 2020 12:01:55 GMT -6
Some of the old timers on the webs point to MCI, FWIW. I'm sure that's true. MCI is kind of a polarizing brand. Munch Crunchy Intermittent? Maintenance Come Immediately? More Crap Inside? These are all from the old crusty tech I know who moans one of those slogans every time you mention an MCI console. Up there with the Neve VR honestly. And whoever designed that bussing matrix should be shot.
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Aug 21, 2020 12:13:19 GMT -6
I'm sure that's true. MCI is kind of a polarizing brand. Both, while the folks at Criteria had hits with MCI it was never really considered to be up there with Neve, API, ect. Nobody in the 80’s bought an SSL for the sound, it was all about recall and automation. Add some decent outboard pre’s with either and you could keep the place booked. I love the George Harrison comment about recall "Why would I want to recall a mix I don't like?" I'm sure that's true. MCI is kind of a polarizing brand. Munch Crunchy Intermittent? Maintenance Come Immediately? More Crap Inside? These are all from the old crusty tech I know who moans one of those slogans every time you mention an MCI console. Up there with the Neve VR honestly. And whoever designed that bussing matrix should be shot. You forgot Made by the Criminally Insane.
|
|
|
Post by nnajar on Aug 21, 2020 12:32:44 GMT -6
MANY excellent sounding jazz records were made on an MCI 528 at Nola "the penthouse" recording studio on W57th street. I made a few of them! I always thought the preamps sounded pretty good. warm and fat. we used lots of 87s, a few 47s, lots of rca 44 and 77s and some 452's, 57s and 421s with that board very regularly. They weren't pristine like a millennia but never once did we push up a fader and wish it sounded "better."
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Aug 21, 2020 15:54:46 GMT -6
A lot of the David Grismam stuff on Acoustic Disc is KM84>MCI> 1” 8 track> ATR.
As told to me by the man himself.
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Aug 21, 2020 16:08:29 GMT -6
When I plugged in that 4-channel XLOGIC Alpha mic pre, it was totally clean and boring, ok...then I turned up the VHD knob and I thought it sounded broken. Disgusting. Totally Gross. Like...Really? It sounded like garbage to me.
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Aug 21, 2020 16:20:25 GMT -6
I know when Martin was out at our place trying out some vintage microphones I had them all patched in to the ssl preamps (9k) just so we had a base line to work from.
After he picked a 67 he liked I threw it into a 1084 for shits and giggles. He preferred the SSL preamp.
Hey different strokes ya know??
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Aug 21, 2020 18:39:10 GMT -6
I know when Martin was out at our place trying out some vintage microphones I had them all patched in to the ssl preamps (9k) just so we had a base line to work from. After he picked a 67 he liked I threw it into a 1084 for shits and giggles. He preferred the SSL preamp. Hey different strokes ya know?? We did the same when I was there and I was very happy with the sound of the M49C, U67, and M269 through those 9K preamps. Recorded out here at a studio with a pair of racked 9K ssl channel strips. We used a Wagner U47W and a Korby Kat with a custom 49 head. Also really liked the sound of preamps.
|
|