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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 29, 2020 7:35:33 GMT -6
The Flea 49 is now decided upon. SDC's for instruments will probably end up being 184s or 84s. Can't hear much differences between them other than the 184s having a clearer top end and sounding more detailed, which is naturally something I would want on such expensive and resonant instruments.
Though not exactly the same, if you feel that way about the 184 vs the 84, you may end up prefering as Vincent did a Flea 49 with their K47 style capsule instead of their M7 Capsule. Try both if you can before buying.
That's a very good suggestion! I've thought about it, and the k47 option sounds like it would fit me even better. I did like how our pair of m49s sounded, but they were definitely on the darker, more "muffled" side. Perhaps something a bit more lively would be in order. I did find this fantastic example of a Flea 49 being used in a world class high profile acoustic recording, through a TAB v76/80 and a vintage Sta-level comp and a Warm audio eq that sort of fits what I'd like. I know who owns the mic, so I should ask him which capsule he ordered. This really shows how fricking good the Flea sounds through proper pre's. Amazing recording.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 29, 2020 7:47:32 GMT -6
Thanks man! Some good ideas there. I'm looking at km85's available in my area. If I'm only going for one sdc (which I might do if cost is prohibiting a good pair), I might choose the km85 over the 84, because of the convenient rolloff that would benefit me for every usage other than OH's, in which case I'd go for something else. I'll look into the 405! Never used that one. Always on the lookout for sleepers. Thanks again! If you get KM85s, you can get KK84 capsules from B&H for under $600 each. I did that with my KM85. Nice to have both options The KM85 is surprisingly good for vocals, though sensitive to pops. Likewise here. As I couldn't find any KM84's in decent condition that were under around $1500 AUD I began to take notice of KM85's that were typically in far better condition than the KM84's I had seen and around 50-60% the cost of an often beaten up KM84. So I ended up with a boxed pair of near mint KM85's and purchased new KK84 capsules from Sennheiser and I also picked up a third KM85 and another near mint KK84 used capsule.
For comparison I also have a pair of KM184's, a pair of Oktava MK012's and a pair of Josephson C42's and a KM54.
The KM84's were always my SDC mic of choice with the KM54 often used on mandolin and sometimes banjo. With nylon string guitar a KM184 was sometimes the best choice but the KM84 always was on the money for steel string acoustic guitar.
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Post by Ward on Aug 29, 2020 7:51:40 GMT -6
Thank you all for your answers. Very much appreciated. The more I actually listen, I realise the hype game is stronger in the mic world than I could imagine. Not as bad as in pre-land, where it is ridiculous, but close. The Flea 49 is now decided upon. Until I can get some old TAB pre's and rack them, the pre's will be Focusrite ISA's, as they sounded the best on acoustic instruments for me against the others I auditioned + they have an impedance switch, which is so fricking useful even for condensers. Cannot imagine working without that. I'm not interested in doing proper stereo miking with omnis for the baroque violin. I've already done that a tonne in churches and concert halls with all sorts of setups with Schoeps mics, including Schneider disks, etc. I'm thinking more along the lines of Gary Pacsoza - recording with two mics, but close and not doing true stereo. SDC's for instruments will probably end up being 184s or 84s. Can't hear much differences between them other than the 184s having a clearer top end and sounding more detailed, which is naturally something I would want on such expensive and resonant instruments. I use EQ on the way in, so I could always remove a tiny bit of top if I want it closer to the 84s sound anyway, but wouldn't want to add top end that's not really there on the 84s, so maybe I'll save some money, forego the vintage hype and get a pair of them + maybe a nice pair of old Gefells for variety. Again, lovely to read your experiences. I deeply respect how you know your shit inside and out and already have a full understanding of what you need, but still do peer consultation and are open to different thinking and others' experiences. Mad respect.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 29, 2020 8:07:35 GMT -6
Thank you all for your answers. Very much appreciated. The more I actually listen, I realise the hype game is stronger in the mic world than I could imagine. Not as bad as in pre-land, where it is ridiculous, but close. The Flea 49 is now decided upon. Until I can get some old TAB pre's and rack them, the pre's will be Focusrite ISA's, as they sounded the best on acoustic instruments for me against the others I auditioned + they have an impedance switch, which is so fricking useful even for condensers. Cannot imagine working without that. I'm not interested in doing proper stereo miking with omnis for the baroque violin. I've already done that a tonne in churches and concert halls with all sorts of setups with Schoeps mics, including Schneider disks, etc. I'm thinking more along the lines of Gary Pacsoza - recording with two mics, but close and not doing true stereo. SDC's for instruments will probably end up being 184s or 84s. Can't hear much differences between them other than the 184s having a clearer top end and sounding more detailed, which is naturally something I would want on such expensive and resonant instruments. I use EQ on the way in, so I could always remove a tiny bit of top if I want it closer to the 84s sound anyway, but wouldn't want to add top end that's not really there on the 84s, so maybe I'll save some money, forego the vintage hype and get a pair of them + maybe a nice pair of old Gefells for variety. Again, lovely to read your experiences. Regarding the Focusrite ISA pre's, although I don't own any I have four Seventh Circle Audio J99 pres which are based on the Jensen Twin Servo design but use a Lundahl LL1538 input transformer (same transformer as used in the ISA) and a high nickel Cinemag output transformer. These pre's have been a no brainer especially for acoustic instruments and often vocals. A KM84 through a J99 is just magic.
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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 29, 2020 8:51:52 GMT -6
Thank you all for your answers. Very much appreciated. The more I actually listen, I realise the hype game is stronger in the mic world than I could imagine. Not as bad as in pre-land, where it is ridiculous, but close. The Flea 49 is now decided upon. Until I can get some old TAB pre's and rack them, the pre's will be Focusrite ISA's, as they sounded the best on acoustic instruments for me against the others I auditioned + they have an impedance switch, which is so fricking useful even for condensers. Cannot imagine working without that. I'm not interested in doing proper stereo miking with omnis for the baroque violin. I've already done that a tonne in churches and concert halls with all sorts of setups with Schoeps mics, including Schneider disks, etc. I'm thinking more along the lines of Gary Pacsoza - recording with two mics, but close and not doing true stereo. SDC's for instruments will probably end up being 184s or 84s. Can't hear much differences between them other than the 184s having a clearer top end and sounding more detailed, which is naturally something I would want on such expensive and resonant instruments. I use EQ on the way in, so I could always remove a tiny bit of top if I want it closer to the 84s sound anyway, but wouldn't want to add top end that's not really there on the 84s, so maybe I'll save some money, forego the vintage hype and get a pair of them + maybe a nice pair of old Gefells for variety. Again, lovely to read your experiences. Regarding the Focusrite ISA pre's, although I don't own any I have four Seventh Circle Audio J99 pres which are based on the Jensen Twin Servo design but use a Lundahl LL1538 input transformer (same transformer as used in the ISA) and a high nickel Cinemag output transformer. These pre's have been a no brainer especially for acoustic instruments and often vocals. A KM84 through a J99 is just magic. A very cool suggestion! I've not come across them other than by name, and their pre's seem very affordable. Affordable eough that it wouldn't hurt the bank too much to trust your word and get a pair! If I find they perform like the ISA, I could always sell some. I'll make sure to snatch some up when they become available on the used market. Thanks!
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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 29, 2020 9:02:00 GMT -6
Thank you all for your answers. Very much appreciated. The more I actually listen, I realise the hype game is stronger in the mic world than I could imagine. Not as bad as in pre-land, where it is ridiculous, but close. The Flea 49 is now decided upon. Until I can get some old TAB pre's and rack them, the pre's will be Focusrite ISA's, as they sounded the best on acoustic instruments for me against the others I auditioned + they have an impedance switch, which is so fricking useful even for condensers. Cannot imagine working without that. I'm not interested in doing proper stereo miking with omnis for the baroque violin. I've already done that a tonne in churches and concert halls with all sorts of setups with Schoeps mics, including Schneider disks, etc. I'm thinking more along the lines of Gary Pacsoza - recording with two mics, but close and not doing true stereo. SDC's for instruments will probably end up being 184s or 84s. Can't hear much differences between them other than the 184s having a clearer top end and sounding more detailed, which is naturally something I would want on such expensive and resonant instruments. I use EQ on the way in, so I could always remove a tiny bit of top if I want it closer to the 84s sound anyway, but wouldn't want to add top end that's not really there on the 84s, so maybe I'll save some money, forego the vintage hype and get a pair of them + maybe a nice pair of old Gefells for variety. Again, lovely to read your experiences. I deeply respect how you know your shit inside and out and already have a full understanding of what you need, but still do peer consultation and are open to different thinking and others' experiences. Mad respect. Thanks! I just want to learn from other's experiences. If they match mine then I guess that's great, and if they don't, I learnt something new, which is just as good. And this is a great place to do so! I probably wouldn't have asked this question back when I only knew about GS. The signal to noise ratio wasn't very appealing to me over there. There were lots of weird seemingly inherited opinions and beliefs over there that didn't seem to match reality, so I'm glad i found you guys.
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Post by Ward on Aug 29, 2020 10:44:28 GMT -6
I deeply respect how you know your shit inside and out and already have a full understanding of what you need, but still do peer consultation and are open to different thinking and others' experiences. Mad respect. Thanks! I just want to learn from other's experiences. If they match mine then I guess that's great, and if they don't, I learnt something new, which is just as good. And this is a great place to do so! I probably wouldn't have asked this question back when I only knew about GS. The signal to noise ratio wasn't very appealing to me over there. There were lots of weird seemingly inherited opinions and beliefs over there that didn't seem to match reality, so I'm glad i found you guys. GS is an absolute swamp, and it needs to be drained. The attitude is so toxic that even when you make a kind useful suggestion, it starts a small war. I only go there out of duty to a brand I promote a fair bit. But then I get trapped.
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 29, 2020 11:07:07 GMT -6
Thanks! I just want to learn from other's experiences. If they match mine then I guess that's great, and if they don't, I learnt something new, which is just as good. And this is a great place to do so! I probably wouldn't have asked this question back when I only knew about GS. The signal to noise ratio wasn't very appealing to me over there. There were lots of weird seemingly inherited opinions and beliefs over there that didn't seem to match reality, so I'm glad i found you guys. GS is an absolute swamp, and it needs to be drained. The attitude is so toxic that even when you make a kind useful suggestion, it starts a small war. I only go there out of duty to a brand I promote a fair bit. But then I get trapped. Im there for the classifieds more than anything haha!
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Post by svart on Aug 29, 2020 15:03:06 GMT -6
It sounds like you want something gefell.
But I'd still consider km184s. You can get them new. They sound great. They're a little bit commodity these days so folks tend to overlook them for esoteric fare, but they work fine and you know what you're getting.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 29, 2020 17:38:08 GMT -6
All good suggestions. I’d go for two km84’s or a pair of Soyuz 013 for the price of one 84. I really love my 013. As for ldc I love the Heiserman 47 and Upton 251. Just got done with a 251 shootout with Dolly’s old 251, the 251 from Blackbird used on Kacie Musgrave’s records, Upton, a Waves/Heiserman proto, Warm 251 and AA 251. Oh and a Korby 251. I was honesty shocked at how similar my Upton was to the Dolly 251. I’ll have files soon so everyone can judge for themselves. The Heiserman 47 is just as well done.
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Post by damoongo on Aug 29, 2020 23:42:48 GMT -6
This may not be what you want to hear, but I don’t think that you will ever achieve the sonic bliss that you had at your old place with those pairs of 49s and 67s, unless you get some. You will always be chasing that. The more you spend on “90% there!” clones of those style of mics, the more you will lose on resale when you ultimately realize you need to have the real deal. (I’ve been through it.)
So I’d second the suggestion of the DPA’s or Schoeps to give you a whole new world of detail, rather than chasing the past. Or just save up and buy a 49. (You can always sell it for more later!)
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Post by Ward on Aug 30, 2020 6:02:33 GMT -6
All good suggestions. I’d go for two km84’s or a pair of Soyuz 013 for the price of one 84. I really love my 013. As for ldc I love the Heiserman 47 and Upton 251. Just got done with a 251 shootout with Dolly’s old 251, the 251 from Blackbird used on Kacie Musgrave’s records, Upton, a Waves/Heiserman proto, Warm 251 and AA 251. Oh and a Korby 251. I was honesty shocked at how similar my Upton was to the Dolly 251. I’ll have files soon so everyone can judge for themselves. The Heiserman 47 is just as well done. I can vouch for the continued fantastic performance of The Heiserman (U) 47 choob. Both headbaskets is worth the investment! And every recording of the Upton 251 is absolutely stellar. Not surprised it hears like 'Dolly'. It sure has the similarities to it in everything I've heard. And Craig has fantastic ears, so I'm certain that lordalvin could get exactly the same results with the Upton! Which is on my list.
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 30, 2020 12:44:35 GMT -6
All good suggestions. I’d go for two km84’s or a pair of Soyuz 013 for the price of one 84. I really love my 013. As for ldc I love the Heiserman 47 and Upton 251. Just got done with a 251 shootout with Dolly’s old 251, the 251 from Blackbird used on Kacie Musgrave’s records, Upton, a Waves/Heiserman proto, Warm 251 and AA 251. Oh and a Korby 251. I was honesty shocked at how similar my Upton was to the Dolly 251. I’ll have files soon so everyone can judge for themselves. The Heiserman 47 is just as well done. Looking forward to hearing that shootout.
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