Using a Line amp for colour in Vocal Chain?

I have an older Century Crest console that was modded and has Jensen transformers throughout. It sounds like a record when I use my outboard preamps going into the line input of this board. It really sounds good. Seems like the hotter I hit it, the more I like it. I can get that grit and bounce(Almost like compression when I hit it hard)

I experiment with adding or omitting different line amps or buffers in the signal chain pretty regularly, and, while I wouldn’t call it a night and day difference, one can certainly get subtly different tones and timbres by using and abusing those additional amps.

For instance, with my console (a Trident TSM, a sort of discrete/transformer and ic opamp hybrid) there is a subtle but distinct difference in sound whether you take signal from the dedicated channel direct outs or from the insert send. Taking signal from the insert send bypasses the output fader line amp and a couple buffer stages, and the resultant signal is decidedly a bit cleaner/truer to the source, as you’d probably intuit. Not universally better or worse, but different, and just the right thing for some applications.

Another example is how a 1073-alike line/mic/eq module sounds subtly different setup with the complementary output line amp (as it would in a console) than without it. A less subtle example would be to say throw an 1176 or 1178 in linear mode (i.e. attack clicked off) into the signal chain- noticeable additional harmonics, change in timbre, yadda yadda.

One final thing to consider with all this is that not only is any hypothetical line amp circuitry adding its own bit of distortion and whatnot, it also quite likely has a different output impedance than whatever piece of gear is feeding it, and that different output impedance in relation to the input impedance of the next piece of gear in the signal chain will have an effect on the overall sound, however subtle or dramatic.

drBill, I'm contemplating possibly buying a BAE 73MP dedicated to master bus running mixes through in LINE mode or used as makeup gain with a Folcrom/passive summer.. Just trying to introduce more transformers within the signal path/mixdown 

What would you recommend for master buss to get more of that transformer/console depth? The Silver Bullet peaks my interest but I wonder if it would introduce enough transformer color as the 2 BAE‘s in line mode/makeup gain for my mixes. The Chroma + has enough space for 2 transformers within the module spaces but doesn’t seem like master bus processing is really it’s intended purpose, but I’m no expert.

Most 1073 clones use an interstage fader to trim, so the distortion in that case is from driving the amplifiers vs saturating the transformer.

This is interesting because I also use a Crest Century console (modded with Jim Williams preamp chips and Jensen transformation on some of the channels) and for the longest time I ran my outboard preamps (CAPI/Electrodyne/Avedis/Etc.) into the INSERT to bypass the extra amp stage (as most people say you should do), but when I decided to start running them through the line inputs to gain access to the excellent highpass filters, I found that it sounded much more “finished” to me, even on the channels I don’t have the Jensons on... just the extra amp stage, even at the lowest gain, contours things in a pleasant way. Not only that, but now I can actually use the insert points to add more transformer/tube gear to the chain, as the lords intended.

Yes, makes sense.

But I’m asking about hitting the line input transformer hard as I have two different gain-stages from other boxes in series before the 73 clones. As you suggest, driving stage 2 is likely a big part of the sound I’m liking.

Also, if Brad were here I imagine he’d say that transformer saturation is just part of the SB story and the thread was about color in general.

Hope that doesn’t sound prickly, I am interested in your thoughts as a designer.

Since Brad and I designed the SB together, and we've talked for literally hundreds of hours about this very topic, I'd feel very confident to say that he would say "yes".  It's only part of the story.  The other parts are proprietary, and some of them run against common belief and what some designers might design towards.  It's (the SB that is) a unique beast.  We've both very proud of it.

notneeson, do you use a Silver Bullet in your record making? Also, do you use a passive/analog summer before sending your mixes through to the 73's or just use line on the 73s with ITB summing? One more question, are you able to mix into this setup and actively monitor with the preamp color live on your mixes as your mixing?

 

Sounds like all of you all really miss the sound of tape overload, to me.

Maybe I do too. Might explain why I'm always using two compressors (with in/out transformers) in my signal chain.

I often look over at the tape deck and say "thank you for your service, soldier."

I don’t have an SB, but I’ve spent some time with Brad and heard it in action/tried it out.

On my own rig I use an active summing amp (D-Box) but it doesn’t have much of a sound on its own. I take that line level output and send it to my bus comp and then the 73 clones.

And yes, I monitor in real time listening to the output of the 73s printed back to PT and then AES out to the D-box. In short, the main reason I have the d-box is monitoring flexibility, less so the summing.