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Post by EmRR on Aug 25, 2020 16:16:36 GMT -6
It's difficult to make sense of the top of any market too, as it's niche based. If I look at the two big music rooms near here, I'd think $600-$1000/day was the top. But there's guys who only record classical demos for students who charge $100/hr to work in their basement. There's new little startups around here with no track record or equipment asking $60/hr. There was a guy with a Quad Eight console and multiple tape machines asking $25/hr. So little is based on any sort of track record, or experience, or space, or equipment. So much is based on who knows who RIGHT NOW, not last year.
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Post by tkaitkai on Aug 30, 2020 6:05:10 GMT -6
I deal with this ALL the time as a music videographer. So much so that reading his feedback was actually infuriating. I feel your pain.
I pretty much just automatically ignore people who try to dictate how and when I am paid. You're hiring me. You pay according to my terms, not the other way around.
Ironically enough, it's always the lowballers that have the highest expectations and the most mediocre music imaginable. They actually think $500 is the price of admission for a Hollywood feature film for their crappy song. Get the fuck outta here.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 2, 2020 15:25:23 GMT -6
Clients who know just enough to be dangerous... A guy had been asking to record with me for about six months. He has three originals to demo, doesn’t know what he wants to do with them, nor what he wants me to play on them. So, I finally agree to Wed of this week. Quoted him a price per song/per overdubbed track. He balked saying he couldn’t afford that. I said that I would do the per song fee, plus one overdubbed instrument per song for no extra. Ugggh I convinced him to let me bring in Nashville’s TOP session drummer: Merle Haggard, Willie Nelson, Dixie Chicks, Don Williams, Kenny Rodgers, etc. And the drummer even cut him a break. In the session... He starts by telling the drummer HOW to play drums. Makes comments to me like “are you sure can can play fiddle to this, it’s gonna be tricky for you.” Meanwhile, I’ve gotta get this guy’s guitar to sound moderately acceptable. Lots of overdubs and crossfading till the colors run together. I go home to cut an elec guitar overdub, saving the guy more money for not paying the studio. Send him all the session WAV files and a rough mix. Emailed him to say the elec guitar was done and I’d cut the fiddle the next day. I get this reply... View AttachmentIt’s a good thing I got my money beforehand. Oy vey...that's why I'm incredibly picky with who I work with. I had a older Polish guy one time - couldn't speak English. He had been in the "Beatles of Poland" and this rich Polish expat that had made millions here in the states was doing a documentary on him because he was her hero growing up. Anyway, we book Jonathan Cain's (Journey) studio...master scale. Troy Lancaster EG (on hundreds of records the last 10 years) Chad Cromwell drums (Stevie Nicks, Dave Stewart, Neal Young) and a couple others I don't even remember...but monsters. We had everything charted. We get about halfway through the first song and he blows up...yelling and screaming...getting out, "That's not my song." We stop the session, he demands to sit with Troy and chart it differently...so Troy reaches around in the piano room and grabs some house guitar that had been sitting there for 5 years most likely...just tunes up a couple strings to just find root chords...but dude yells at him - makes him tune the whole thing...it was the craziest shit ever. I got paid a lot of money for it, though. We laugh about it, but I was beside myself. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 4, 2020 15:06:08 GMT -6
Clients who know just enough to be dangerous... A guy had been asking to record with me for about six months. He has three originals to demo, doesn’t know what he wants to do with them, nor what he wants me to play on them. So, I finally agree to Wed of this week. Quoted him a price per song/per overdubbed track. He balked saying he couldn’t afford that. I said that I would do the per song fee, plus one overdubbed instrument per song for no extra. Ugggh I convinced him to let me bring in Nashville’s TOP session drummer: Merle Haggard, Willie Nelson, Dixie Chicks, Don Williams, Kenny Rodgers, etc. And the drummer even cut him a break. In the session... He starts by telling the drummer HOW to play drums. Makes comments to me like “are you sure can can play fiddle to this, it’s gonna be tricky for you.” Meanwhile, I’ve gotta get this guy’s guitar to sound moderately acceptable. Lots of overdubs and crossfading till the colors run together. I go home to cut an elec guitar overdub, saving the guy more money for not paying the studio. Send him all the session WAV files and a rough mix. Emailed him to say the elec guitar was done and I’d cut the fiddle the next day. I get this reply... View AttachmentIt’s a good thing I got my money beforehand. Oy vey...that's why I'm incredibly picky with who I work with. I had a older Polish guy one time - couldn't speak English. He had been in the "Beatles of Poland" and this rich Polish expat that had made millions here in the states was doing a documentary on him because he was her hero growing up. Anyway, we book Jonathan Cain's (Journey) studio...master scale. Troy Lancaster EG (on hundreds of records the last 10 years) Chad Cromwell drums (Stevie Nicks, Dave Stewart, Neal Young) and a couple others I don't even remember...but monsters. We had everything charted. We get about halfway through the first song and he blows up...yelling and screaming...getting out, "That's not my song." We stop the session, he demands to sit with Troy and chart it differently...so Troy reaches around in the piano room and grabs some house guitar that had been sitting there for 5 years most likely...just tunes up a couple strings to just find root chords...but dude yells at him - makes him tune the whole thing...it was the craziest shit ever. I got paid a lot of money for it, though. We laugh about it, but I was beside myself. The ability to say no to a job in this business is the key to sanity. Most of us at some point had to say yes to everything in order to eat and pay rent but when we reached that point where we could say no was the day we knew we had made it big. |
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Post by Ward on Sept 6, 2020 7:00:34 GMT -6
Most of us at some point had to say yes to everything in order to eat and pay rent but when we reached that point where we could say no was the day we knew we had made it big. It's some hard to say 'no thank you' when your mortgage is due, utilities are late, cupboards are bare and you're wondering which guitar or mic you can sell so that the woman doesn't just leave and go and live with her parents again, and brings the kids with her. And yeah, I've been there. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 6, 2020 8:23:13 GMT -6
Ouch Ward, I'm feeling that. Had to sell all my serious gear, rare guitars, etc. for medical bills, it still hurts. But I'm still here and can try to rebuild :-)
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 6, 2020 9:40:19 GMT -6
Most of us at some point had to say yes to everything in order to eat and pay rent but when we reached that point where we could say no was the day we knew we had made it big. It's some hard to say 'no thank you' when your mortgage is due, utilities are late, cupboards are bare and you're wondering which guitar or mic you can sell so that the woman doesn't just leave and go and live with her parents again, and brings the kids with her. And yeah, I've been there. The ability to say No was the reason I got into healthcare as a “side gig”...it’s allowed me to say no to the idiots and only work with people I like. At first I felt like it was a failure, but after a while I grew to love music even more, my production skills have grown my leaps and bounds since I have time to practice specific skills and my stress level is way down. Not saying that’s right for everyone, but it certainly sucks when you’re desperate because that’s when you end up getting undercut in pay while going above and beyond in your production. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 7, 2020 16:02:36 GMT -6
Most of us at some point had to say yes to everything in order to eat and pay rent but when we reached that point where we could say no was the day we knew we had made it big. It's some hard to say 'no thank you' when your mortgage is due, utilities are late, cupboards are bare and you're wondering which guitar or mic you can sell so that the woman doesn't just leave and go and live with her parents again, and brings the kids with her. And yeah, I've been there. I remember those days all to well! I think that’s why I ended up as an AE/ producer, FOH, Monitor eng, system tech, lighting designer/ tech, TD, theatre manager, set designer/ stage hand, cameraman, video editor. gear design consultant and gearpimp. I would take any gig and run with it. Hell, the owner of Full Compass said I knew more about what we did than anybody in the building. It was all about paying the rent, and every new title/ skill meant another way to do that. My wife will tell you that it took 5 gallons of gasoline, a match a crazy man and a year in the hospital to teach me how to say no to a gig! |
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Post by Ward on Sept 8, 2020 6:21:16 GMT -6
It's some hard to say 'no thank you' when your mortgage is due, utilities are late, cupboards are bare and you're wondering which guitar or mic you can sell so that the woman doesn't just leave and go and live with her parents again, and brings the kids with her. And yeah, I've been there. I remember those days all to well! I think that’s why I ended up as an AE/ producer, FOH, Monitor eng, system tech, lighting designer/ tech, TD, theatre manager, set designer/ stage hand, cameraman, video editor. gear design consultant and gearpimp. I would take any gig and run with it. Hell, the owner of Full Compass said I knew more about what we did than anybody in the building. It was all about paying the rent, and every new title/ skill meant another way to do that. My wife will tell you that it took 5 gallons of gasoline, a match a crazy man and a year in the hospital to teach me how to say no to a gig! It was 20 years ago for me, but I'll tell you with all the lockdowns and stuff since March, and the continued economic pressures, and what we do considered a 'luxury' by many . . . the savings have certainly dwindled. Work has picked up again, but not like it was, and it's going to take a long time to get back to where I was. Retirement age isn't 30 for me, not following your plan, and another 15-20 years is closer than I realize. |
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Post by EmRR on Sept 8, 2020 16:30:52 GMT -6
Yet, there's SO MUCH competition, there's frequently no one to say 'no' to, either......
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