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Post by chessparov on Mar 27, 2021 17:06:46 GMT -6
Thanks! I wasn't aware 3U had an M7 style. Thanks, Chris
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Post by guitfiddler on Mar 27, 2021 20:59:03 GMT -6
That's part of the fun of forums like this. They remind you of things you've done, and things you own but haven't used in a while. I think I'm going to set up my 4050s for room mics when I get to the studio, just because of this thread. I pulled the 4050s out yesterday in preparation for today's tracking session. It turns out I need new elastics for one of the shockmounts... Not a big deal. I've got them on short stands and I used a butterfly clip and some gaff tape. I have them a little over knee hight, not that far out and they still sound great. For shits and giggles while I was timing picking up dinner, I started playing with compression and got something really cool with an original ART VLA. Sometimes it reminds of things I don’t want to remember though...lol Yin and Yang. You can't have good without bad. The last 5 years have been nothing but a string of bad luck when it comes to modding microphones.. Ugh
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 72
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Post by Ox Han on Mar 27, 2021 21:54:47 GMT -6
Well sometimes just upgrading a mic you already own can be eye opening. I don't know how many countless chinese and australian fet mics I have changed just the capsule in that have gone from unusable to stellar. Most of the amplifiers are a basic Scheops circuit with a decent transformer. Just yesterday a friend asked if I had a mic laying around that he could use for some recordings. I had a disused Superlux CM-H8 cardiod fet mic in a box and one of my CT67 capsules that had a slight blemish on one membrane which means it would have to be rebuilt. I installed that capsule in that mic and turned up the fader and was shocked. I think it sounded better than either of my U87's. I don't mean this as an adverstisement for my work because currently I am not selling that capsule direct. I just mean that there are plenty of capsules like this out there for sale in 250 USD and under range and the installation is simple and take minutes. If I was out there today trying to build a decent studio on a budget I would probably buy a bunch of these and mod them along with buying a few Oktava 012's Chris just throw a 3U audio m7 of their less bright k67 capsule in it. Done. Actually, I have a tube mic with your ct12 that I like a lot. But I wanted a fet mic to leave up and not have to take down that was on par. I went through a lot of mics and so far the best I’ve found was the tele TF11 without breaking USD $1k. I did buy a warbler IV and it’s pretty good, but I think the TF11 edges it out. I’m not sure what to do with it. I’m not 100% happy with the TF11 obviously. I have no experience with electronics nor with soldering. could I swap capsules myself? It went through my head to drop your CT12. Should I find someone to swap the capsule for me if I go that route? Thanks
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Post by guitfiddler on Mar 27, 2021 22:49:23 GMT -6
That's part of the fun of forums like this. They remind you of things you've done, and things you own but haven't used in a while. I think I'm going to set up my 4050s for room mics when I get to the studio, just because of this thread. I pulled the 4050s out yesterday in preparation for today's tracking session. It turns out I need new elastics for one of the shockmounts... Not a big deal. I've got them on short stands and I used a butterfly clip and some gaff tape. I have them a little over knee hight, not that far out and they still sound great. For shits and giggles while I was timing picking up dinner, I started playing with compression and got something really cool with an original ART VLA. Sometimes it reminds of things I don’t want to remember though...lol Yin and Yang. You can't have good without bad. When it comes to microphones, if I didn't have any bad luck I'd have no luck at all! Not to mention a lot of money wasted!
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Post by guitfiddler on Mar 27, 2021 23:38:48 GMT -6
Well sometimes just upgrading a mic you already own can be eye opening. I don't know how many countless chinese and australian fet mics I have changed just the capsule in that have gone from unusable to stellar. Most of the amplifiers are a basic Scheops circuit with a decent transformer. Just yesterday a friend asked if I had a mic laying around that he could use for some recordings. I had a disused Superlux CM-H8 cardiod fet mic in a box and one of my CT67 capsules that had a slight blemish on one membrane which means it would have to be rebuilt. I installed that capsule in that mic and turned up the fader and was shocked. I think it sounded better than either of my U87's. I don't mean this as an adverstisement for my work because currently I am not selling that capsule direct. I just mean that there are plenty of capsules like this out there for sale in 250 USD and under range and the installation is simple and take minutes. If I was out there today trying to build a decent studio on a budget I would probably buy a bunch of these and mod them along with buying a few Oktava 012's This thread is starting to definitely open up some microphone wounds from the past. I have dealt with people in the past that were not honest with me, I know things(LOL)and I know what I want, but every time I dealt with people, I just wasn't dealing with the right person at the right time evidently, or dealing with a crook! I have had very bad luck in the past with my Rode NT-2's. I had Microphone Parts put some K47's garbage capsules in those mics, not that they were terrible stock, but they had no de-emphasis to calm that original K67 capsule down. I sent it to Microphone Parts. I let them know before I even sent the mics to have the capsules swapped to experiment that I wanted my K67 capsules back, and even after reaching back out several times they kept my capsules. I'm still mad as hell about it!!!! I have a feeling those capsules were a better quality capsule because they weren't made in China back when I bought them and they actually didn't sound terrible, they just needed the right person with the right capsule, or mod in the circuit. I had Shannon build me a 251 and we tried a new capsule and it was the mic I thought would be THE MIC! He kept saying that his 251 would Slay a BOCK mic. I owned 3 Bock mics, so I was on board to find out. It was really good after 3 attempts(revisions) and thousands later, and then there was the total bomb with the mic 6 months later. Prior to these incidents Shannon was amazing to work with and we were definitely almost there with the mic. I contacted Shannon and he said it was a power supply problem and to send it down and he would take a look at it, and that he knew what the problem was. He'd have it back in less than a week. I sent it to him, I don't know what happened, but never talked to him again. He never answered my phone calls. Shannon disappeared with a lot of people's microphones that probably have a worse story than mine, and thankfully Dave Wheeler( Hell of a guy, thank you again Dave if you're reading this, and Thank You to another hell of a guy!!! John Kennedy for giving me Dave's name, sorry John and Dave!! LOL! We have a lot of really good people on this forum and I am very thankful for all of you stand up guys that do the right thing!!!)Dave went over to Shannon's, knocked on the door and retrieved my 251! First of all, both of Shannon's capsules were gone from my 251, and unfortunately I feel that those capsules had a sound that I don't know how I will get back. I hope someone out there knows what Shannon used for his capsules. I'm not sure if he had spun them himself or outsourced these capsules, but it worked with my mic! I couldn't believe how cool Dave was to work with. Giving me updates about dealing with the situation with Shannon and not only for me, but he dealt with many other microphone owners that had lost their property to Shannon. I felt obligated to have him work on my mic and pay him for retrieving my mic! He didn't care for the circuitry and build, however he did put a Heisermann capsule in it for me, and although he did note a compromised design, he did tell me how much it would be to make the mic something amazing! However, after spending all that cash on this mic with Shannon, I just told Dave to put a capsule in it and send it back. So, Dave sent it back and did an amazing job, and I am very grateful for Dave. Thank You again, I can't imagine how uncomfortable all that was that you had to go through just to retrieve our mics. Because of all the cash I had spent on this mic it was one of those things I just had to put on the back burner, and come back to at a later date. This is why I reached out to you Tim. I'm still deciding on several options, but to be honest I know what will give me what I want, but I also have many donor mics right now that could be something incredible with the right capsule. I've been there a couple times, but due to things out of my control I haven't gotten there yet. I did have a microphone at one time that slayed my favorite mic in my locker that I thought would never be beat! I want to get back there, but without the correct capsule it will continue to be a dud. I'm not sure what Shannon did to this mic, but he had it there twice and then shit happened. The mic quit working twice then it was lost, recovered, and now sitting on the shelf waiting yet again to be completed. Still knowing that this very mic sounded killer with two of Shannons capsules in it, even with the compromised design, I know it can be amazing again, and I am reaching out to the community once again for some advice on anyone that knows what capsule Shannon used to get there, He had a 1st Version and then an OG Mod, he called it? Anyone?
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Post by recordingengineer on Mar 28, 2021 2:22:06 GMT -6
No experience with Shannon, his mics or his capsules, but Allen Luke of Luke Audio worked with Shannon at MicRehab prior to starting his own thing some years ago; he was certainly doing his own thing in early 2015 when I first started having him skin backplates for me... I don’t know how much or if this at all relates to what you’re asking, but I offer it for open information, to do with what you will.
I have 3 stock CT12s and 2 modded CT12 backplates modded and skinned by Allen Luke in tube mics. They’re all absolutely amazing!
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Post by timcampbell on Mar 28, 2021 5:27:48 GMT -6
I am so sorry to hear about your nightmare experience with your mic. All things Shannon (and a few other modders over the years) seemed to have ended in disaster. The scenario I was talking of was not one of trying to build a holy grail mic but with the least expense, trouble and cash outlay end up with a good utility mic. Many of the microphones mentioned here share the same circuit or very close to, with each other and better quality chinese mics. This is why you have praise for mics like the Serrano. Capsules used in the Serrano, Heiserman, Bock, etc. are readily available at a reasonable price and changing them out literally involves desoldering a few wires and resoldering a few. My point was really that if you own a Rode , Audio Technica, T Bone... you already own 80% of the mic you are searching for. Rather than selling that mic at a huge loss and spending another 800-1000 bucks buying back the same amplifier with a different capsule why not buy the capsule you like, spend a 1/2 hour of your time installing it and go back to making some wonderful recordings. Then again selling gear you have and buying new gear is what this particular forum is about
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Post by chessparov on Mar 28, 2021 8:36:23 GMT -6
In April, I have a good friend visiting, and will be giving them my AKG 200/a USB cable/Presonus Audiobox... To help them start home recording. Otherwise I was planning to put a nicer capsule, in the AKG, as a fun project. I still will keep the Oktava 219/MXL V69/SM58, stock for the time being. Upgrading any of those, is primarily on the Hobbyist level. The V69's circuit from what I understand, isn't that great. So I realize there's a "glass ceiling" right there-to begin with. Also the stock el cheapo toob. Most likely today, If were starting from scratch and wanted a Multi-Pattern LDC for home use... I'd just start with a 3U Audio MKID or MKIID Warbler. (and a M88 for studio/stage use) Although on a single Pattern, I do like the Oktava 219/319 quite a bit, for some Vintage character. Chris
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Post by drumsound on Mar 28, 2021 10:47:14 GMT -6
I pulled the 4050s out yesterday in preparation for today's tracking session. It turns out I need new elastics for one of the shockmounts... Not a big deal. I've got them on short stands and I used a butterfly clip and some gaff tape. I have them a little over knee hight, not that far out and they still sound great. For shits and giggles while I was timing picking up dinner, I started playing with compression and got something really cool with an original ART VLA. Yin and Yang. You can't have good without bad. The last 5 years have been nothing but a string of bad luck when it comes to modding microphones.. Ugh Modding or building gear, for me, just feels like a complete nightmare. I HATE soldering. I even have a buddy fix bad cables.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 28, 2021 15:40:20 GMT -6
Gefell UMT70’s would be my first choice, because I’m different Sony C48’s second choice. 414’s can be had cheap though and won’t disappoint.
Yes.... The UMT 70 because I always fall back to it - even if I have the chance to go wild....in a friends' studio. I just know what to expect from it, it's a true workhorse.
If I can't make it with the UMT70 I can't make it with any other microphone, in this case most often the problem sits in front of the microphone.
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Post by gwlee7 on Apr 2, 2021 15:17:57 GMT -6
For shits and giggles while I worked out some parts for a fun little country song I just wrote, I used just my Gefell Um 70 as the only mic. I put t the song over in the What you are working on forum. It’s called “Just Another Thing”.
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Post by drbill on Apr 2, 2021 19:13:51 GMT -6
For shits and giggles while I worked out some parts for a fun little country song I just wrote, I used just my Gefell Um 70 as the only mic. I put t the song over in the What you are working on forum. It’s called “Just Another Thing”. Sounds great!! I love, LOVE, LOOOVE my UM70s! I get such a kick putting them up, and singers are kinda,,,,,meh on them til they hear what comes out. They their eyes get really big, and I tell them the Gefell story. They are almost always fans for life.
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 3, 2021 6:36:49 GMT -6
For shits and giggles while I worked out some parts for a fun little country song I just wrote, I used just my Gefell Um 70 as the only mic. I put t the song over in the What you are working on forum. It’s called “Just Another Thing”. Sounds great!! I love, LOVE, LOOOVE my UM70s! I get such a kick putting them up, and singers are kinda,,,,,meh on them til they hear what comes out. They their eyes get really big, and I tell them the Gefell story. They are almost always fans for life. Do you also mention the most positive aspect of the story? The fall of the Wall and the reunion of our country?
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Post by drbill on Apr 3, 2021 9:04:15 GMT -6
Sounds great!! I love, LOVE, LOOOVE my UM70s! I get such a kick putting them up, and singers are kinda,,,,,meh on them til they hear what comes out. They their eyes get really big, and I tell them the Gefell story. They are almost always fans for life. Do you also mention the most positive aspect of the story? The fall of the Wall and the reunion of our country? ABSOLUTELY!!!
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 3, 2021 9:18:54 GMT -6
Do you also mention the most positive aspect of the story? The fall of the Wall and the reunion of our country? ABSOLUTELY!!!
AMEN
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Post by Guitar on Apr 3, 2021 11:12:54 GMT -6
If anyone needs the kind of work done that Tim is talking about, send me a PM. I have a pretty good amount of experience with mic mods, some repairs, and some builds.
I can't build a capsule from scratch, but I can change every part inside a microphone, the kind of mods we are talking about here.
Today I just rebuilt a broken SE V7X with a Primo E204N small condenser electret capsule, sounds pretty decent on first test. I tried two simple circuits and one was clearly better than the other. So that's the one I'll use for the mic I'm modding for a studio in town, as a trade for a Tube Works amp.
Also have re-built 3 Apex 460 tube mics, done some re-ribbons on 3 or 4 mics, and I have a few more projects on the short list.
I was doing tube mics for a while but my new focus is trying to get the hang of FET mics. I'm going to try to do some CK12 capsule ones this month, with work similar to what Tim described, using that common Schoeps inspired circuit as a base.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 4, 2021 6:24:41 GMT -6
While exchanging capsules, is as Tim said, simple, if anyone here who is not that experienced wants to try it, be very very careful not to touch the actual diaphragm, remember they are literally microns thick, actually incredibly thin and very easily damaged.
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Post by chessparov on Apr 4, 2021 13:58:49 GMT -6
You'd be left with only a SE-shell then. Chris
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 4, 2021 14:47:02 GMT -6
No experience with Shannon, his mics or his capsules, but Allen Luke of Luke Audio worked with Shannon at MicRehab prior to starting his own thing some years ago; he was certainly doing his own thing in early 2015 when I first started having him skin backplates for me... I don’t know how much or if this at all relates to what you’re asking, but I offer it for open information, to do with what you will. I have 3 stock CT12s and 2 modded CT12 backplates modded and skinned by Allen Luke in tube mics. They’re all absolutely amazing! Thanks, I reached out to Allen. I’m going to give his capsule a try. I want to try one of Tim’s capsule as well, if I can get my hands on one. This mic needs to be closer soon, driving me crazy! I might have to do some re-engineering to get it where I want it, but the only thing missing is Shannon’s capsules. Isn’t Heisermann coming out with their own 251 mic soon?
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Post by Guitar on Apr 4, 2021 15:40:06 GMT -6
No experience with Shannon, his mics or his capsules, but Allen Luke of Luke Audio worked with Shannon at MicRehab prior to starting his own thing some years ago; he was certainly doing his own thing in early 2015 when I first started having him skin backplates for me... I don’t know how much or if this at all relates to what you’re asking, but I offer it for open information, to do with what you will. I have 3 stock CT12s and 2 modded CT12 backplates modded and skinned by Allen Luke in tube mics. They’re all absolutely amazing! Thanks, I reached out to Allen. I’m going to give his capsule a try. I want to try one of Tim’s capsule as well, if I can get my hands on one. This mic needs to be closer soon, driving me crazy! I might have to do some re-engineering to get it where I want it, but the only thing missing is Shannon’s capsules. Isn’t Heisermann coming out with their own 251 mic soon? Yes, Heiserman 251 is pending, you can buy the capsules separately I believe, whenever you want.
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 4, 2021 15:43:47 GMT -6
Thanks, I reached out to Allen. I’m going to give his capsule a try. I want to try one of Tim’s capsule as well, if I can get my hands on one. This mic needs to be closer soon, driving me crazy! I might have to do some re-engineering to get it where I want it, but the only thing missing is Shannon’s capsules. Isn’t Heisermann coming out with their own 251 mic soon? Yes, Heiserman 251 is pending, you can buy the capsules separately I believe, whenever you want. I currently have a Heisermann capsule in the SR-251 and surprisingly, it didn’t really wake this mic up, like Shannon’s capsules did. 6-micron mylar might have something to do with it? I do know that Shannon used a platinum mylar on his capsule that was less than half the width of the 6 micron-Mylar on the Heisermann. I’m not sure what capsules Shannon was using, I know he had the 2nd version OG-Mod capsules outsourced, but by who, not sure? I liked his 1st Gen Capsule he had for the SR-251 then he talked me into the OG-MOD capsule which was a little more open in the mids and top, but the bucket on the vocal, lows and mid lows were a little on the weak side. Not that it sounded bad, I could make it work by boosting an EQ 1-2 db, but he said he could get it there. If I could get the mids and top like the OG-MOD and get the fullness in the lows to mid lows to come up a bit. This mic was damn close to being there and since Shannon’s departing I haven’t been able to get this mic back to where it was, frustrating to know how good this mic can sound, but not get that magic back yet! If I could get a pic to post in this forum I could post a few designs on here of my 251’s and we could go from there in a new thread. I know, in search of the unobtainium(lol), but this mic so was damn close I know it can be there again with the right capsule and Mylar thickness. I still believe it has something to do with the thickness of the Mylar and of course the right brass capsule combination. I’m going to give Allen’s capsule a shot next, then go from there. I was hoping to just replace the capsule and have something close to what I had, nope😝. I don’t want to go down this long arduous rabbit hole with this mic, but I know I can get it there for cheaper than buying a new mic.
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Post by ab101 on Apr 4, 2021 20:35:37 GMT -6
You'd be left with only a SE-shell then. Chris At the Se-shore? On a serious note - I have an Upton 251 that I would like to try one of Tim's capsules on. I like the Upton capsule. I would just like to hear the difference! (Or maybe I should just get some Flea C12s!) (Sorry - for being off-topic really - but I suppose these capsule changes apply to solid-state mics too.)
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Post by chessparov on Apr 4, 2021 22:13:36 GMT -6
I wonder if Dallas might "re-tune" it, somewhere along the Bright/Dark Spectrum, to fine tune closer... After you spend more time with it? (I already know I'd need a "dark" one-ala Bock 251) Chris
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Post by recordingengineer on Apr 4, 2021 22:42:59 GMT -6
It’ll be interesting to hear if one of Allen’s capsules ends-up working for you.
I heard his LA-1E capsule in his LA-X751 when he sent me a demo mic for a few weeks when he released them. Had I had the cash at the time, I most definitely would have picked one up!
I just picked up a pair of his LA-1Cs to try in some Lucas Audio CS1-inspired mics that will be built over the next few months; after an 87-inspired mic with his LA-8 is built.
I will tell you my Stephen Paul C12-mod -inspired pair of mics with modded-CT12 backplates and 1-micron Mylar, 5751 tubes, and Samar Audio large-core 12:1 transformers, sound amazingly extended on both ends and very very balanced. The transients are amazingly fast but soft.
I have his LA-6s in two different tube mics; one a 269C-inspired, the other a Stephen Paul U67-mod -inspired.
I also have a pair of modded Flea F49 backplates with 1-micron Mylar in M49b-inspired mics.
Oh, and as soon as they arrive, I’ll have Allen skin a pair of Flea F9 backplates.
I should note, my 3 stock CT12s are in a single 251-type with the common setup of a NOS GE 5-Star 6072 and AMI T14 and a pair of Lomo 19A13-inspired mics. This 251 setup actually seems, surprisingly, relatively-balanced and 19A13 type are pretty low-end light and very open and bright on top.
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Post by recordingengineer on Apr 5, 2021 11:32:48 GMT -6
By the way, it’s not lost on me; me talking about tube mics in this solid state thread...
So on that note, since there are tons of great more known ideas out there, thought I might add some not so known ones. Maybe one of the Sanken, Milab, or Pearl options? Maybe Samar Audio TF10? Nordic Audio Labs NU-100K? NIKFI KMN 15 or KMN 16?
I’ve not used the TF10, but have three tube mics with Samar’s capsule. They’ve been amazing! Wow!
The NU-100K I had to have because it’s truly it’s own new character I could hear in all the online samples and still a great all-arounder.
I chose the 16 of the KMNs because it was more exciting-sounding. If I was going for accuracy, I would have chosen the 15. Either way, a great choice for stringed acoustic instruments.
It’s been years since I owned a Milab VIP-50 and sold it in a moment of weakness, but they’re about to release an updated version. I will be purchasing one as soon as they’re released!
I still don’t have a Sanken myself, but will eventually!
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