|
Post by mrholmes on Aug 2, 2020 14:54:16 GMT -6
Never used one, just saw one but my singing gets better and better and I ask myself - what is so magical about the U47 story. The original contains an M7 capsule right? I ask myself why not using something like the UMT70S and post processing with some expensive tube harmonics? Would not be the output something similar? And if that is not going to work; how good are the clones. WARM / Heisermann etc. THX Holmes....
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Aug 2, 2020 15:29:09 GMT -6
I don’t know enough about the UMT70S to comment on how they compare to a U47, but a microphone is the sum of many parts and the VF14 Tube and BV8 transformer are both hugely important in the U47 circuit.
Warm is great for the money($600 used), but it’s a budget mic more in line with Advanced Audio and not in the same league as a FleA or Heiserman. I think I like it more than my old Peluso 2247SE though. I have experience with the FleA which is really nice, but doesn’t have the same low end as the original, most likely due to the change from the VF14 To the EF12. It’s got a real “Vintage Quality” to it vs other clones though. I haven’t used the Heiserman, but the clips I’ve heard are wonderful and there are enough people on RGO who’s opinions I respect that love it. So that makes me pretty curious. I’d love to hear them head to head.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Aug 2, 2020 15:36:07 GMT -6
I don’t know enough about the UMT70S to comment on how they compare to a U47, but a microphone is the sum of many parts and the VF14 Tube and BV8 transformer are both hugely important in the U47 circuit. Warm is great for the money($600 used), but it’s a budget mic more in line with Advanced Audio and not in the same league as a FleA or Heiserman. I think I like it more than my old Peluso 2247SE though. I have experience with the FleA which is really nice, but doesn’t have the same low end as the original, most likely due to the change from the VF14 To the EF12. It’s got a real “Vintage Quality” to it vs other clones. I haven’t used the Heiserman, but the clips I’ve heard are wonderful and there are enough people on RGO who’s opinions I respect that love it. So that makes me pretty curious. I’d love to hear them head to head.
I listened to some old recordings and I like that opened sound, a sheen without sounding harsh. If that's the magic than I agree...
Don't get me wrong it does not have to be such an expensive microphone.
If something should go in that open sheen direction, which microphone would you recommend?
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Aug 2, 2020 15:47:35 GMT -6
The FET mic is going to sound quite a bit different than the tube based mic, for the reasons Vincent described. With the Warm being stated as the sort of $600 entry point, it only gets more expensive from there.
There is no way around it, this type of equipment can be very expensive.
I had a Peluso 2247 SE for years and it was a wonderful microphone. I did some small tweaks on it. But I can recommend that too, if you're in the $1,000 range.
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 2, 2020 15:58:15 GMT -6
The 47 grill is a significant component to its sound as well, providing natural eq and slight delays affecting different frequencies.
For lower cost, I agree the Warm is a good entry point. I have it and made Max’s 47 kit with a Thiersch blue cap.
A poster here has a top end diy 47 for sale on gearslutz now.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Aug 2, 2020 16:00:35 GMT -6
The FET mic is going to sound quite a bit different than the tube based mic, for the reasons Vincent described. With the Warm being stated as the sort of $600 entry point, it only gets more expensive from there. There is no way around it, this type of equipment can be very expensive. I had a Peluso 2247 SE for years and it was a wonderful microphone. I did some small tweaks on it. But I can recommend that too, if you're in the $1,000 range.
Jupp doing research I found files by the 2247 SE I liked them. The mic is 2 K new today lets see this is something possible 4.6 k is to far away these days.
Have to correct myself I heard files by the LE which is with a steel tube @2k2 in EU.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Aug 2, 2020 17:14:28 GMT -6
My UMT70S is clearly 'family of' alongside my MK47 with a Thiersch Blue line capsule. The MK47 has a much more ragged top end and a larger bottom than the 70. The 70 sounds more polished and finished. I'm more likely to use the 70 with some 70 year old octal tube thing, and the 47 with some modern thing. Both more similar to each other than anything else I have, both VERY different.
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Aug 2, 2020 17:42:32 GMT -6
Excuse me for hijacking the thread, but I have a umt70s and have been wondering if I paired it with my LA610 > Portico 542 just how close I'd get to "that" tube sound. I'm not trying to replicate a u47 per se, but just get a thicker, creamier sound. It'll be a while till I have another singer in the studio or I'd try it. But do you guys have any tips for using the umt70 on vocals? I find it to be very smooth and clean, but not as much mojo as my ADK tc-67.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Aug 2, 2020 17:48:50 GMT -6
Excuse me for hijacking the thread, but I have a umt70s and have been wondering if I paired it with my LA610 > Portico 542 just how close I'd get to "that" tube sound. I'm not trying to replicate a u47 per se, but just get a thicker, creamier sound. It'll be a while till I have another singer in the studio or I'd try it. But do you guys have any tips for using the umt70 on vocals? I find it to be very smooth and clean, but not as much mojo as my ADK tc-67. I like thee UMT70s as well on vocals but sometimes it sounds too modern for my taste. In 75% of the cases vintage modern sounds great...
|
|
|
Post by svart on Aug 2, 2020 18:25:47 GMT -6
After having a um70s and a u47 with M7, they're not much alike. You can recognize the capsule tone, but they have different textures.
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Aug 3, 2020 4:46:47 GMT -6
The new Gefell CMV563 is much more in line with a U47 than the UMT70s.
However different the UMT70s is to a U47... it’s 1000 times more versatile of a mic. IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Aug 3, 2020 7:21:20 GMT -6
After having a um70s and a u47 with M7, they're not much alike. You can recognize the capsule tone, but they have different textures. Thanks. I like smart people. Your answer is simple yet concise and informative. I'll be stealing and using it.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Aug 3, 2020 7:40:14 GMT -6
After having a um70s and a u47 with M7, they're not much alike. You can recognize the capsule tone, but they have different textures. Thanks. I like smart people. Your answer is simple yet concise and informative. I'll be stealing and using it. LOL, Just pointing out what was obvious to me since I've owned and used both. I just don't think there would be any way to "fake" a U47 tone from a UM70S.
|
|
|
Post by bluegrassdan on Aug 3, 2020 17:29:30 GMT -6
Do you have the chance to try out a variety of mics on your voice? Anyone nearby with a studio?
There are many very nice microphones that don’t “copy” the 47. I am of the opinion that most 47 copies miss the mark entirely. Some don’t even sound that great as microphones at all.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 3, 2020 18:39:15 GMT -6
Excuse me for hijacking the thread, I like thee UMT70s as well on vocals but sometimes it sounds too modern for my taste. In 75% of the cases vintage modern sounds great... Half the time, they work every time. Chris
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 3, 2020 18:40:53 GMT -6
The new Gefell CMV563 is much more in line with a U47 than the UMT70s. However different the UMT70s is to a U47... it’s 1000 times more versatile of a mic. IMHO. Hmm... I wonder. Wasn't the 47 designed to be a Universal Mic, to begin with? Do I smell Shootout? Chris
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 3, 2020 19:18:51 GMT -6
THE universal mic is the U87. Plug it in, everything and anything sounds pretty good. The 47 and 67 can be a bit more voice specific. Case in point, I wanted a U47 to sound best on my voice, but a U67 smoked the U47. That made it difficult for me to reach since there's so many more 47 style mics available to choose from. If it wasn't for the SA67, which gets it right, I'd have stayed priced out of the game.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 3, 2020 21:18:29 GMT -6
THE universal mic is the U87. Plug it in, everything and anything sounds pretty good. The 47 and 67 can be a bit more voice specific. Case in point, I wanted a U47 to sound best on my voice, but a U67 smoked the U47. That made it difficult for me to reach since there's so many more 47 style mics available to choose from. If it wasn't for the SA67, which gets it right, I'd have stayed priced out of the game. Agreed on the 87. On the 67 front, did you try the RMS269? That one scratched my U67 itch.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Aug 4, 2020 4:05:08 GMT -6
THE universal mic is the U87. Plug it in, everything and anything sounds pretty good. The 47 and 67 can be a bit more voice specific. Case in point, I wanted a U47 to sound best on my voice, but a U67 smoked the U47. That made it difficult for me to reach since there's so many more 47 style mics available to choose from. If it wasn't for the SA67, which gets it right, I'd have stayed priced out of the game. Agreed on the 87. On the 67 front, did you try the RMS269? That one scratched my U67 itch. I really liked that mic. I wish I had been able to keep it and that I had purchased one with a Neumann capsule. Still my modded MK67 is smoother and I prefer it. The RMS269 was like a U87 on steroids; forward, open, but maintaining beef and weight of the source.
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Aug 4, 2020 5:49:04 GMT -6
The new Gefell CMV563 is much more in line with a U47 than the UMT70s. However different the UMT70s is to a U47... it’s 1000 times more versatile of a mic. IMHO. Hmm... I wonder. Wasn't the 47 designed to be a Universal Mic, to begin with? Do I smell Shootout? Chris I can only speak for my own experience, and I use that mic wayyyy more places than I would a U47.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Aug 4, 2020 6:13:51 GMT -6
Hmm... I wonder. Wasn't the 47 designed to be a Universal Mic, to begin with? Do I smell Shootout? Chris I can only speak for my own experience, and I use that mic wayyyy more places than I would a U47. agreed on that. a 47 is a killer vocal mic and works well on several other applications but does not have the universal application or utility of either a U87 or KM84
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Aug 4, 2020 6:54:27 GMT -6
Yeah. Now that I'm recording more regularly I've learned what an asset the U87 is. On my Christmas Album its showing up on all of the background vocals done at my place (Emily, myself, my mom, and my siblings.... yes we all sing). I like it on acoustic guitar; maybe not soloed, but in the mix its great. It sounds so nice on cello. The U67 is a little more specific and I prefer it to the U87 almost every time on lead vocals. When the U47 is "magic," it is untouchable. Its just not "magic" as often as a U67 or U87 is"just right."
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 4, 2020 7:38:52 GMT -6
Exactly Vincent.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 4, 2020 7:53:41 GMT -6
Hi Dr. Bill, no I never had the opportunity to try an RMS26.
Even though my recording situation is simple and humble, where I'm lucky is I always have the Soyuz 0-19 to fall back on. It has a K67 style capsule, but being completely hand made it is of course a bit different. It's in the same league as a U87. Basically it sounds good on everything. In a studio shootout I attended, 20 engineers and producers unanimously chose the 0-19 over a vintage U67 and a vintage U87 in an acoustic guitar shootout. This was blind, no one knew which mic was which. It's excellent, but perhaps not magical on vocals. I couldn't swing the 0-17 tube version which was the best mic I'd heard until the Chandler REDD.
I can't wait to do some more with my SA67, but I won't be recording anything for a while. The cool thing is it hangs in there against the Chandler, which honestly surprised me. I can't wait to compare it to Neumann's U67's, both vintage and reissues.
Meanwhile, I still wouldn't mind having a nice U47 style mic around. Have any of you tried the Golden Age one? It sounded as close as any I've heard in one online shootout.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921
|
Post by ericn on Aug 4, 2020 8:28:24 GMT -6
Hmm... I wonder. Wasn't the 47 designed to be a Universal Mic, to begin with? Do I smell Shootout? Chris I can only speak for my own experience, and I use that mic wayyyy more places than I would a U47. Agreed the Gefell is far more versatile than a 47. What the Gefell brings to the party is that M7, in fact the best M7 you can buy. The downside of the Gefell is that it really makes it hard to look at other mics in the same price range because your not going to find much that has a capsule in the same league. It’s kind of funny how many guys I sold M7 Gefells to who have a love hate relationship with that mic. They love how it sounds but they find they hate it when shopping for more mics because they have to get in the $3-4K range before anything is livable in the long run. Adam it would be really fun to drop a Gefell M7 in that 49 clone of yours!
|
|