ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 28, 2020 7:59:51 GMT -6
I also have a 4U that has been trusty for years, ARK I think was the brand, about a hundred bucks. These brands come and go though. It seems like there are some nice newer options when I've looked lately. Thanks, gentlemen. I've seen some of late that are 1U which are intriguing. I don't have any cards, so a 1U rack case could work. Kind regards, -09 Remember a lot of those 1 u cases are deeeeeep! Not only are they deep compared to most audio gear they really should be mounted with rear rails as well, on the inexpensive ones the front panels are thin and will bend if not secured in the rear.
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Post by Omicron9 on Jul 28, 2020 8:02:02 GMT -6
Thanks, gentlemen. I've seen some of late that are 1U which are intriguing. I don't have any cards, so a 1U rack case could work. Kind regards, -09 Remember a lot of those 1 u cases are deeeeeep! Not only are they deep compared to most audio gear they really should be mounted with rear rails as well, on the inexpensive ones the front panels are thin and will bend if not secured in the rear. Interesting. Thanks, ericn. I've not investigated them that far as yet; still in the curiosity stage. -09
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Post by svart on Jul 28, 2020 17:13:09 GMT -6
Remember a lot of those 1 u cases are deeeeeep! Not only are they deep compared to most audio gear they really should be mounted with rear rails as well, on the inexpensive ones the front panels are thin and will bend if not secured in the rear. Interesting. Thanks, ericn. I've not investigated them that far as yet; still in the curiosity stage. -09 There's a shallow 4u Rosewill on Amazon. My 4u is very deep and I don't like it nor need it that deep. I think maybe next computer I go with that chassis instead. One word of warning though, the real cheap chassis tend to have very poor grounding, and I typically drill out all the rivets and sand the metal bright wherever the panels touch, then rivet them back together tightly. This has solved all ground loop issues I've had with a few different computers.
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Post by popmann on Jul 28, 2020 18:15:28 GMT -6
Also note that a rackmount chassis won't be easy to make silent. You can probably make one quiet ENOUGH if the rack is under the table or divorced from the listening space...but, the way they're cooled is always big intake fans on the front and SMALL fans out the back...definitely no magnetic drives can live there silently. You can (and should) use the little decoupling nuts...but, end of the day, a tower can be bought that's deadened with solid "big fan" airflow. 1U servers are the noisiest, because there's NO airflow other than tiny fans going a million RPM pulling air through...and not much space for decoupling at all...rack mounting, you're basically removing 4 sides of potential air intake--and certainly none from the cold floor. No separate in/out for the a modern power supply to literally just keep ITSELF cool with outside air (in and back out the back rather than serving as top exhaust for the case)...
I man I GET it...I'd rather rack mine up than have it sitting below the desk. But, there's a "cost" to that.
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Post by svart on Jul 28, 2020 18:45:51 GMT -6
Also note that a rackmount chassis won't be easy to make silent. You can probably make one quiet ENOUGH if the rack is under the table or divorced from the listening space...but, the way they're cooled is always big intake fans on the front and SMALL fans out the back...definitely no magnetic drives can live there silently. You can (and should) use the little decoupling nuts...but, end of the day, a tower can be bought that's deadened with solid "big fan" airflow. 1U servers are the noisiest, because there's NO airflow other than tiny fans going a million RPM pulling air through...and not much space for decoupling at all...rack mounting, you're basically removing 4 sides of potential air intake--and certainly none from the cold floor. No separate in/out for the a modern power supply to literally just keep ITSELF cool with outside air (in and back out the back rather than serving as top exhaust for the case)... I man I GET it...I'd rather rack mine up than have it sitting below the desk. But, there's a "cost" to that. One thing I did was take out the stock fans and put in the largest fan I could. I got one noted for it's quietness and I set it to run slower in bios. I use that as the main intake fan and have a filter between the faceplate and the intake. Its almost silent.
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Post by dmo on Jul 29, 2020 17:13:31 GMT -6
Opted for a new 16" MBP few weeks back, wanted to try LUNA and my 2011 MBP doesn't support. Thought hard about the new Mac Pro but with the whole uncertainty regarding chips figure I'd hold off for now. Have to start doing my clean installs to get it up and running now that I'm home from my little hospital stay.
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Post by m03 on Jul 30, 2020 0:40:06 GMT -6
1U servers are the noisiest, because there's NO airflow other than tiny fans going a million RPM pulling air through...and not much space for decoupling at all...rack mounting, you're basically removing 4 sides of potential air intake--and certainly none from the cold floor. No separate in/out for the a modern power supply to literally just keep ITSELF cool with outside air (in and back out the back rather than serving as top exhaust for the case)... I man I GET it...I'd rather rack mine up than have it sitting below the desk. But, there's a "cost" to that. Post-1990s, 1U servers are really optimized for Hot Aisle/Cold Aisle setups, where they're expected to be stacked on top of each other by the dozens, mounted on toolless sliding rails where they can be quickly pulled out and serviced in place, by datacenter engineers that are expected to wear hearing protection due to the noise. I can't imagine intentionally choosing one in instances where noise or ease of use is a concern. Quiet towers and 4U cases aren't that expensive, especially if you're skipping cases with display windows or fancy lighting options. Plus larger cases allow for big CPU coolers with large, lower speed fans.
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Post by Ward on Jul 30, 2020 7:46:06 GMT -6
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Post by Omicron9 on Jul 30, 2020 7:55:54 GMT -6
ward, I've limited experience with them. One of my partners only uses Hackintosh systems (built by him), and loves them. Never has any issues as far as I know (ProTools v.12). If you like the MacOS, I'd certainly investigate that very cost-effective option. If you do, please keep us posted! -09
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Post by svart on Jul 30, 2020 8:21:57 GMT -6
I've only ever used PC or Mac, never a chimera of the two.. But anyway, the hardware is mostly the same between PC and Mac ever since Apple went with Intel, so it really only comes down to using the right hardware pieces that Mac OS has drivers for. Also, Apple disavows any hackintosh, so if you have any kinds of issues, you're pretty much on your own.
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Post by Ward on Jul 30, 2020 8:36:43 GMT -6
I've only ever used PC or Mac, never a chimera of the two.. But anyway, the hardware is mostly the same between PC and Mac ever since Apple went with Intel, so it really only comes down to using the right hardware pieces that Mac OS has drivers for. Also, Apple disavows any hackintosh, so if you have any kinds of issues, you're pretty much on your own. I hear ya. Bob Horn swears by his and he's never had an issue in the 4 years he's been using the current one. That's an AWFUL lot of mixes, projects, grammies etc. And he has it loaded to the hilt with everything from plugin alliance (obviously) and every other vendor. That's what's pushing me there.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2020 8:47:13 GMT -6
I think you can build a machine that performs as well as any Mac for less than a Mac, but you have to go oranges to oranges. A Mac Pro has always used high end workstation / server components. These have always been better at taking advantage of multiple cores. Nothing in these machines is cheap! The downside, support is all on you, and Apple can shut the door on you with any new OS update or build. If your even thinking of going down this road I would find some respected on line resource who has successfully built a machine running your choice of DAW and any additional DSP.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 30, 2020 9:18:48 GMT -6
I would check tonymacx86 .com for recommended "systems"
I got one running, but I had the wrong graphics card, so I had to abandon it, and return to windows. I was so close, but my graphics were all garbled and slow.
Every single component has to be within the supported list.
Not sure if I'll ever try again. It's pretty tweaky with the install and setup, some people are into that sort of thing. Some people would fail miserably.
Maybe I'll try to get it running again one day. All I really need is a specific GPU, the rest of my system is pretty much ready to go.
You have to have access to a Mac to do it. You need to download the OS file that you can only get by using an Apple computer. That was a tricky part for me. I found an obscure one somewhere on the deep internet.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2020 9:30:03 GMT -6
I would check tonymacx86 .com for recommended "systems" I got one running, but I had the wrong graphics card, so I had to abandon it, and return to windows. I was so close, but my graphics were all garbled and slow. Every single component has to be within the supported list. Not sure if I'll ever try again. It's pretty tweaky with the install and setup, some people are into that sort of thing. Some people would fail miserably. Maybe I'll try to get it running again one day. All I really need is a specific GPU, the rest of my system is pretty much ready to go. You have to have access to a Mac to do it. You need to download the OS file that you can only get by using an Apple computer. That was a tricky part for me. I found an obscure one somewhere on the deep internet. Yeah I’ll add this if the Machine is a dedicated DAW workstation who really cares what OS your using? Other than some keyboard differences, Housekeeping difference and boot screen? I ran HD on a Dell workstation for a couple of years and the only real difference when I moved to my modded Macpro was Native plug-in power that was all about the CPU.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 30, 2020 9:32:55 GMT -6
I would check tonymacx86 .com for recommended "systems" I got one running, but I had the wrong graphics card, so I had to abandon it, and return to windows. I was so close, but my graphics were all garbled and slow. Every single component has to be within the supported list. Not sure if I'll ever try again. It's pretty tweaky with the install and setup, some people are into that sort of thing. Some people would fail miserably. Maybe I'll try to get it running again one day. All I really need is a specific GPU, the rest of my system is pretty much ready to go. You have to have access to a Mac to do it. You need to download the OS file that you can only get by using an Apple computer. That was a tricky part for me. I found an obscure one somewhere on the deep internet. Yeah I’ll add this if the Machine is a dedicated DAW workstation who really cares what OS your using? Other than some keyboard differences, Housekeeping difference and boot screen? I ran HD on a Dell workstation for a couple of years and the only real difference when I moved to my modded Macpro was Native plug-in power that was all about the CPU. Very good observation! I would add the caveat that maybe, I don't know, some people would want to try Logic or Garage Band, if they are coming from Windows, since those aren't available there. Me, with Cubase, I'm not sure what the real advantage would be now that you've made your observation. There's that Apple video editing software too, Final Cut. I thought of one more thing. Certain audio interfaces are Mac only, so it would open up those too.
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Post by popmann on Jul 30, 2020 9:35:58 GMT -6
The short answer is that i think it threads a really thin needle....mac users who know what they're doing with a computer....but, also CARE a lot about the OS more than app performance....and also dont feel the need to update OSX automatically.
So, basically.....if you've got an expensive old Tdm rig.....and just HATE Windows 7....You can probably find a hackintosh with pcie slots to run OSX.8 or whatever cheap.
There are some non enthusiast uses, but i guess I don't really understand why anyone cares that much. I also, having lived through Mac clones, think you HIGHLY overestimate how much of the user experience you love is the OS itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 11:55:30 GMT -6
Apple is all about casework. They switched to cell phone chips because they haven’t made a thermally stable laptop for over a decade. It’s beyond them. Their typical web browsing and light office suite users won’t notice the difference.
Windows is better about using CPU resources than OSX. Asio is faster than Core Audio too. Cubase and Reaper are much more stable on Windows too. On Mac, you just get Digital Performer and Logic and Logic has bugs unfixed since emagic days and DP is just focused on scoring and live stuff. Just use a good interface with good drivers. Get a Windows 10 Pro license and then off all the bullshit like Cortana and Anti-virus in policy manager. Over USB, go RME or Steinberg on Windows. Those two over USB on windows are better than all USB on Mac. Mac has Apogee but Apogee is dead to me like Apple. Too much bad hardware over the last 15 years. Motu is great if you don’t use a lot of outboard, better sound than the others, but I’m going to sell it all off eventually due to non-deterministic latency over usb. If rtl utility or hardware insert pings vary when you mash the button, then your interface doesn’t have deterministic latency and I want more outboard so... Windows, more stable interface, and Custom built workstation for 2-3k eventually.
The only Apple product worth buying in 2020 is the iPhone SE to flex the blue texts from iMessage when talking to American women.
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Post by drumsound on Jul 30, 2020 16:46:09 GMT -6
It seems like a lot of [as my landlord likes to say] monkey fucking around. I have a friend who is pretty geeky and is an audio guy. If HE were to build me a Hackintosh, maybe... I've only ever used PC or Mac, never a chimera of the two.. But anyway, the hardware is mostly the same between PC and Mac ever since Apple went with Intel, so it really only comes down to using the right hardware pieces that Mac OS has drivers for. Also, Apple disavows any hackintosh, so if you have any kinds of issues, you're pretty much on your own. After 3 months they charge you for support anyway...
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Post by klauth on Jul 30, 2020 17:56:25 GMT -6
Can we talk more about what your budget is, for your next computor.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 30, 2020 17:58:16 GMT -6
ba humbug
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jul 30, 2020 20:05:38 GMT -6
About two years ago I purchased a "trash can" Mac Pro from OWC. It was a refurb with a bunch of upgrades. I think it was around $4k. Here are the specs: Attachments:
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Post by Ward on Jul 30, 2020 20:34:18 GMT -6
Can we talk more about what your budget is, for your next computor. We're still on topic, klauth. The topic of $4000 Hackintosh versus $20,000 new Mac Pro had to be brought into it. It's central to our work on a daily basis.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2020 20:58:01 GMT -6
Can we talk more about what your budget is, for your next computor. We're still on topic, klauth. The topic of $4000 Hackintosh versus $20,000 new Mac Pro had to be brought into it. It's central to our work on a daily basis. Keep in mind that the CPU in the most powerful version is $6K all by its self.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 11:30:03 GMT -6
Can we talk more about what your budget is, for your next computor. We're still on topic, klauth. The topic of $4000 Hackintosh versus $20,000 new Mac Pro had to be brought into it. It's central to our work on a daily basis. Would Apple Care cover any new expensive Mac that breaks down? Downtime is fatal.
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Post by klauth on Jul 31, 2020 12:42:42 GMT -6
What are you willing to part with financially on your next build or purchase in regards to your next studio computer is what I was asking. not really interested in the building process or specific model... if that makes more sense?
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