|
|
Post by m03 on Jul 19, 2020 19:15:58 GMT -6
Saw this on Reddit, for those who are interested:
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 20, 2020 8:45:29 GMT -6
Looks good. A bit higher quality than your standard interface.
|
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Jul 21, 2020 14:35:54 GMT -6
Looks good. A bit higher quality than your standard interface. Isn’t it usb bus powered and is that a limiting factor at 5v? |
|
|
|
Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jul 21, 2020 20:12:31 GMT -6
Pretty old CODEC same one used in the RME UCX.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 21, 2020 21:15:50 GMT -6
Looks good. A bit higher quality than your standard interface. Isn’t it usb bus powered and is that a limiting factor at 5v? It's really about current. Looks like the PCB has multiple "15V" markings, so it's getting boosted and inverted to give +/-15. Doing this reduces available current (ohms law and such), but the sum of the opamps is likely only 50ma. I'll have to see what the codec and xmos draw. So the USB drivers probably turn on all available current for the USB port. Older ports were 500ma, new ones can be a few amps for charging things. |
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Jul 21, 2020 21:26:32 GMT -6
Isn’t it usb bus powered and is that a limiting factor at 5v? It's really about current. Looks like the PCB has multiple "15V" markings, so it's getting boosted and inverted to give +/-15. Doing this reduces available current (ohms law and such), but the sum of the opamps is likely only 50ma. I'll have to see what the codec and xmos draw. So the USB drivers probably turn on all available current for the USB port. Older ports were 500ma, new ones can be a few amps for charging things. Thanks, super helpful! My entry into Pro Tools was the OG M-box back in 1999 or so and folks tended to blame usb bus power for its poor sound. No doubt there was more at play. |
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 21, 2020 21:30:29 GMT -6
It's really about current. Looks like the PCB has multiple "15V" markings, so it's getting boosted and inverted to give +/-15. Doing this reduces available current (ohms law and such), but the sum of the opamps is likely only 50ma. I'll have to see what the codec and xmos draw. So the USB drivers probably turn on all available current for the USB port. Older ports were 500ma, new ones can be a few amps for charging things. Thanks, super helpful! My entry into Pro Tools was the OG M-box back in 1999 or so and folks tended to blame usb bus power for its poor sound. No doubt there was more at play. It's an issue that needs careful design to handle well, which I'm only assuming that SSL has done right.. |
|
|
|
Post by gektor on Jul 27, 2020 5:25:56 GMT -6
Do you think it is possible to add external power to such devices to improve them?
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921 
|
Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2020 6:11:25 GMT -6
Do you think it is possible to add external power to such devices to improve them? If you can find a higher current powered USB hub try it. I use one on my little Drop/ Grace, Monoprice ESL headphone playback system. |
|
|
|
Post by gektor on Jul 27, 2020 6:57:34 GMT -6
I've tried to connect SSL 2 to an externally powered USB 3 hub which is clearly capable of more than 500 mA per port. The USB power meter still shows ≈ 500 mA. - No playback, no phantom power: ≈ 400 mA - USB playback using headphones at normal listening level, no phantom power: ≈ 400 mA - USB playback using headphones at normal listening level, phantom power on on one channel, speaking into mic, direct monitoring mix: ≈ 470 mA - USB playback using headphones at normal listening level, phantom power on on two channels, speaking into both mics, direct monitoring mix: ≈ 520 mA The headphone amp shows some distortion at high volume level (tested with 250 Ω headphone). Some reviewers have complained about bad response to fast transients. See: www.amazona.de/test-solid-state-logic-ssl-2-usb-audiointerface/ (in German). |
|
|
|
Post by gektor on Jul 27, 2020 7:11:18 GMT -6
The current must be limited by some component, isn't it?
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 27, 2020 7:11:57 GMT -6
Do you think it is possible to add external power to such devices to improve them? "improve" how? More power doesn't mean higher performance. It works as designed. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921
|
Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2020 7:17:09 GMT -6
I've tried to connect SSL 2 to an externally powered USB 3 hub which is clearly capable of more than 500 mA per port. The USB power meter still shows ≈ 500 mA. - No playback, no phantom power: ≈ 400 mA - USB playback using headphones at normal listening level, no phantom power: ≈ 400 mA - USB playback using headphones at normal listening level, phantom power on on one channel, speaking into mic, direct monitoring mix: ≈ 470 mA - USB playback using headphones at normal listening level, phantom power on on two channels, speaking into both mics, direct monitoring mix: ≈ 520 mA The headphone amp shows some distortion at high volume level (tested with 250 Ω headphone). Some reviewers have complained about bad response to fast transients. See: www.amazona.de/test-solid-state-logic-ssl-2-usb-audiointerface/ (in German). Well that sucks! |
|
|
|
Post by gektor on Jul 27, 2020 7:36:35 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by gektor on Jul 27, 2020 7:39:33 GMT -6
Do you think it is possible to add external power to such devices to improve them? "improve" how? More power doesn't mean higher performance. It works as designed. The German reviewer complained about lack of power which results in subpar fast transient response. But the solution is not "replace some components to put more power through it" I suppose? Or is it? |
|
|
|
Post by gektor on Jul 27, 2020 7:51:13 GMT -6
By the way: I enjoy my SSL 2 very much. It replaced my old Focusrite 2i4 and I like the sound quality and the usability way more.
|
|
|
|
Post by gektor on Jul 27, 2020 8:17:18 GMT -6
Interesting: When connected via TRS/XLR to external mains powered headphone amp, the USB power meter only shows ≈ 200 mA instead of ≈ 400 mA under the same circumstances. This is even the case when the amplifier is turned off using the physical power switch on front of the device. The power meter readings goes back to ≈ 400 mA when activating the ground lift on the amp.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 27, 2020 8:57:52 GMT -6
"improve" how? More power doesn't mean higher performance. It works as designed. The German reviewer complained about lack of power which results in subpar fast transient response. But the solution is not "replace some components to put more power through it" I suppose? Or is it? That's not how it works. Transients are fast and generally localized to the opamp. Power supplies are generally slow, especially considering large amounts of capacitance used to stabilize them. While some switch-mode supplies have relatively quick reaction speeds, the trace inductance and copper resistance tend to slow overall step response speed at the far end of the trace. Localized small decoupling caps are used to supply fast current demands at the opamp with larger local bulk capacitance used for supplying medium speed current demands in a more regional location. If the opamps are demanding so much as to deplete the local decoupling entirely, it's probably more of a case of layout deficiency than of power deficiency, but this would be clearly evident to SSL during testing. But the truth is that the SSL sound has always been slightly soft compared to many designs that allow higher amounts of distortion. It's also probably true that they willingly sacrificed bandwidth for stability in the headphone outputs. High bandwidth power drivers and inductive speaker coils don't make good partners and can lead to severe overshooting, distortion and perhaps oscillation in some cases. |
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Jul 27, 2020 9:01:34 GMT -6
By the way: I enjoy my SSL 2 very much. It replaced my old Focusrite 2i4 and I like the sound quality and the usability way more. Just keep using it until any sonic limitations are painfully obvious to you. And if you never get there, then we’ll know that the reviewer should have talked to Svart before making that assumption about transient response. |
|
|
|
Post by gektor on Jul 27, 2020 9:33:45 GMT -6
I am extremely satisfied with SSL 2 and I think I understand what svart means by SSL sound.
When listening to it's headphone out and comparing it to my NAD D1050 DAC the SSL 2 sounds a bit "vintage", but very "mucical". It lacks some resolution in reproduction of fast electronic music but it really sounds great.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 30, 2020 18:34:29 GMT -6
I am extremely satisfied with SSL 2 and I think I understand what svart means by SSL sound. When listening to it's headphone out and comparing it to my NAD D1050 DAC the SSL 2 sounds a bit "vintage", but very "mucical". It lacks some resolution in reproduction of fast electronic music but it really sounds great. It's like the first time someone hears a good mic after using Chinese mics for years. The good ones sound almost dull and lifeless without the extra sizzle you get used to it the Chinese mics. |
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Dec 21, 2020 11:13:14 GMT -6
I am listening to the SSL2+ right now so this has been an interesting read. Yes, it's a little soft sounding all around, but pleasant enough to listen on. It does have more audible coloration than the Topping DX7s, and you can check the specifications of each to support this. Cymbals are a little thin sounding on playback, and the bass doesn't kick like the Topping. But it's a pleasant prosumer interface sound.
The headphone amps don't fare too well with HD650 which I think are 300 Ohm headphones. The AKG K702 (62 ohm) and most of the $150ish standard "cans" sound fine.
My late night tracking test was so miserable I can't speak about the preamps broadly yet. The 4K switch did work well on vocals. Bass DI is adequate but certainly no "Wolfbox." I'm spoiled there. Sure, I will plug the wolfbox into the SSL next time.
Think I might try it later with ribbon mics and the SM7B to work it a little harder. Might try some 1-2 mic drums too.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Dec 21, 2020 12:37:50 GMT -6
I am listening to the SSL2+ right now so this has been an interesting read. Yes, it's a little soft sounding all around, but pleasant enough to listen on. It does have more audible coloration than the Topping DX7s, and you can check the specifications of each to support this. Cymbals are a little thin sounding on playback, and the bass doesn't kick like the Topping. But it's a pleasant prosumer interface sound. The headphone amps don't fare too well with HD650 which I think are 300 Ohm headphones. The AKG K702 (62 ohm) and most of the $150ish standard "cans" sound fine. My late night tracking test was so miserable I can't speak about the preamps broadly yet. The 4K switch did work well on vocals. Bass DI is adequate but certainly no "Wolfbox." I'm spoiled there. Sure, I will plug the wolfbox into the SSL next time. Think I might try it later with ribbon mics and the SM7B to work it a little harder. Might try some 1-2 mic drums too. Kinda odd that lighter load headphones don't sound as good. Usually it's the other way around. What's a wolf box? |
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Dec 21, 2020 13:00:06 GMT -6
I am listening to the SSL2+ right now so this has been an interesting read. Yes, it's a little soft sounding all around, but pleasant enough to listen on. It does have more audible coloration than the Topping DX7s, and you can check the specifications of each to support this. Cymbals are a little thin sounding on playback, and the bass doesn't kick like the Topping. But it's a pleasant prosumer interface sound. The headphone amps don't fare too well with HD650 which I think are 300 Ohm headphones. The AKG K702 (62 ohm) and most of the $150ish standard "cans" sound fine. My late night tracking test was so miserable I can't speak about the preamps broadly yet. The 4K switch did work well on vocals. Bass DI is adequate but certainly no "Wolfbox." I'm spoiled there. Sure, I will plug the wolfbox into the SSL next time. Think I might try it later with ribbon mics and the SM7B to work it a little harder. Might try some 1-2 mic drums too. Kinda odd that lighter load headphones don't sound as good. Usually it's the other way around. What's a wolf box? I'm not sure if I understand this correctly. I thought a 300 ohm headphone would be the heavier load than the 62 ohm headphone. The HD650 which are the 300 ohm headphones are the ones that don't perform as well to me. Maybe there's some misunderstanding here. I have always thought that a higher load impedance was a "heavier" load. For example a guitar speaker with a solid state amp, the 16 ohm speaker might be quieter than the 4 ohm speaker with the same amp. I went through this before on gearslutz and people were educating me but I'm not sure if I fully grasp headphone loading. The wolfbox is the "Motown DI." Originally built with a Triad A-11J or A-12J transformer, although there is some debate about that. I use A-55J and A-65J which sound good to me and are less depleted on the market. Ed Wolfrum was the designer and James Jamerson would have carried one around and nicknamed it the "Wolfie box" shortened to Wolfbox in modern language. I love that sound. |
|
|
|
Post by svart on Dec 21, 2020 14:23:09 GMT -6
Kinda odd that lighter load headphones don't sound as good. Usually it's the other way around. What's a wolf box? I'm not sure if I understand this correctly. I thought a 300 ohm headphone would be the heavier load than the 62 ohm headphone. The HD650 which are the 300 ohm headphones are the ones that don't perform as well to me. Maybe there's some misunderstanding here. I have always thought that a higher load impedance was a "heavier" load. For example a guitar speaker with a solid state amp, the 16 ohm speaker might be quieter than the 4 ohm speaker with the same amp. I went through this before on gearslutz and people were educating me but I'm not sure if I fully grasp headphone loading. The wolfbox is the "Motown DI." Originally built with a Triad A-11J or A-12J transformer, although there is some debate about that. I use A-55J and A-65J which sound good to me and are less depleted on the market. Ed Wolfrum was the designer and James Jamerson would have carried one around and nicknamed it the "Wolfie box" shortened to Wolfbox in modern language. I love that sound. No, the lower the number, the heavier the load. 4 ohms is harder to drive than 16 since it's closer to a short, etc. A 300 ohm headphone should be much easier to drive than a 62ohm headphone. |
|
