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Post by mrholmes on Jun 13, 2020 10:35:02 GMT -6
RGOs.
I worked hard the last year to get my vocal work better and better. And the practicing pays off.
I get more and more control over my vocal cords the larynx etc.
Now here comes the crazy.
I often liked my vocals in songs more when I did not have all this training, control. I loved to hear wrong sometimes.....
Now I sing the right notes but with some songs it feels like:
THAT'S NOT ME..... THAT FEELS WRONG....
Then I control myself with Logic PITCH to make sure I am not going crazy, but cool most of the time I am on pitch. (Sure it can get better, but it's not like that I am totally off the road.)
I start to hate my voice. Its simple not sounding like me in some songs even though I sing the right notes....
Any hint is welcome...because I am at the point where I am frustrated.
THX to you all....
Andreas
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 13, 2020 10:41:36 GMT -6
My guess is you're singing more relaxed now, easier and with more control and now your missing the grit or attitude that comes (sometimes) when you're straining too hard to sing. Three things come to mind:
1) find your sweet spot, warm up for a long time and find that spot where your voice is really warmed up and almost starting to tire out. Then record.
2) incorporate vocal practices that are aimed at controlling the grit. I don't know how to say this exactly, but there's a way to sound gritty and strained without actually being gritty and strained...make sense?
3) a glass of whiskey and a cigarette...enough said
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Post by trakworxmastering on Jun 13, 2020 10:52:49 GMT -6
In addition to the grit/tone thing, it could be about expressiveness vs technical perfection. Sometimes perfection is the enemy of emotion. Try singing drunk.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 13, 2020 11:50:36 GMT -6
In addition to the grit/tone thing, it could be about expressiveness vs technical perfection. Sometimes perfection is the enemy of emotion. Try singing drunk.
I would love to but I am an AA.
6th year sober....
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 13, 2020 11:53:55 GMT -6
2) incorporate vocal practices that are aimed at controlling the grit. I don't know how to say this exactly, but there's a way to sound gritty and strained without actually being gritty and strained...make sense?
You hit the nail to my ears in one song it sounds gritty and strained like Mickey Mouse - even though the notes are the right ones. It sounds nasal G-ish 1,0 to 1,5 k most energy.
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Post by notneeson on Jun 13, 2020 12:14:34 GMT -6
In addition to the grit/tone thing, it could be about expressiveness vs technical perfection. Sometimes perfection is the enemy of emotion. Try singing drunk.
I would love to but I am an AA.
6th year sober....
That’s great, congrats on your 6 years! So, I think the spirit of what Justin is saying still stands: try and let go of engineering and technique completely and just sing your ass off. Let it suck at first, if it sucks. Getting out of one’s own head while performing can be extremely beneficial.
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Post by gwlee7 on Jun 13, 2020 16:14:57 GMT -6
I would love to but I am an AA.
6th year sober....
That’s great, congrats on your 6 years! So, I think the spirit of what Justin is saying still stands: try and let go of engineering and technique completely and just sing your ass off. Let it suck at first, if it sucks. Getting out of one’s own head while performing can be extremely beneficial. I am trying to learn how to let myself sing with no shame. 😂
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Post by M57 on Jun 13, 2020 16:19:29 GMT -6
If you think your 'old' voice is more appropriate for a track - sing with it. You know how to do it. It's like riding a bike. It's not like 'training" changes your voice. Training simply gives you more options and flexibility, and one of those options is to sing the way you use to.
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Post by sirthought on Jun 14, 2020 2:26:52 GMT -6
I hear myself sing all the time and don't think of it as "me." It's all an illusion, man. Haha.
I just have to view stuff I create as not me, but my children that once they are out of the house they have to go live on their own. You can try to clean them up, make 'em sharp, but they are what they are.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 14, 2020 4:00:17 GMT -6
I would love to but I am an AA.
6th year sober....
That’s great, congrats on your 6 years! So, I think the spirit of what Justin is saying still stands: try and let go of engineering and technique completely and just sing your ass off. Let it suck at first, if it sucks. Getting out of one’s own head while performing can be extremely beneficial.
May that is the case good advise will try tomorrow.... today I have a break.
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Post by Ward on Jun 14, 2020 8:16:21 GMT -6
I am rarely satisfied with my own vocal work. Very few serious singers are. That is usually the sign of being serious about your work.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 14, 2020 9:35:28 GMT -6
In addition to the grit/tone thing, it could be about expressiveness vs technical perfection. Sometimes perfection is the enemy of emotion. Try singing drunk.
I would love to but I am an AA.
6th year sober....
HUGE respect, man. That is not easy to achieve. Congrats. If you're looking for more "grit," you're probably looking for vocal cords that are dehydrated and less flexible, with a bit less control and a bit more "wildness" to them. You can hear the air and sometimes even increased harmonics with "drier-than-usual" vocal cords. One way to achieve dehydrated vocal cords is as Tbone81 mentioned: whiskey and cigarettes (ETOH is a diuretic, and cigarettes provide hot, polluted air moving over the vocal cords repeatedly). But dehydration of the vocal box can be achieved in other ways, as well. Lots of black coffee with higher acid content is one way. Lots of black tea waaaaay oversteeped (with no milk or sugar) is another way. Pure Darjeeling or Assam can be great for this. In either case, don't drink any water or any other drink. You're intentionally trying to dehydrate your vocal cords and indeed, your body. And yes, singing a bunch will also dry out your vocal cords because there will be warm air moving over them. There are more variables than just the above, but "dryer" vocal cords can get you a long way towards the character I think you're describing.
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Post by lpedrum on Jun 14, 2020 12:56:49 GMT -6
I've yet to work with a singer who loves their voice.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 14, 2020 16:47:46 GMT -6
There's a psycho-acoustic effect that hearing our own voice has. Something about our ears and cranium hearing ourselves is unnatural. Therefore, we basically don't sound good to ourselves. I recall reading somewhere that even Elvis didn't like his own voice much. Certainly singers like John Lennon "knew" they weren't "great" singers.
Here's my suggestion, sing first thing in the morning after coffee, (or whatever you like). You're usually not thinking about details as much and it'll come out more natural.
Don't fret, you're in the middle of a process. Right now you're over-focused on how it sounds. It will pass, just do your best to find the emotion behind the lyrics.
The best singers are the ones you believe, not necessarily the ones who sound beautiful. Think about Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Lou Reed, Bruce Springsteen. Tom Petty was one nasal mutha, but I could listen to the man all day. Some would say they can't sing for shit. I say they're the most expressive singers. and therefore, some of the best.
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Post by wiz on Jun 14, 2020 18:54:06 GMT -6
Go get some training from a good singing teacher.
Simple things like using the correct vowel sounds eg singing NART instead of NIGHT, will have a big impact.. .not changing your mouth shape during notes... breathing.... seriously that stuff will improve your singing way more than skulling whisky and smoking butts...
Cheers
Wiz
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,937
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Post by ericn on Jun 14, 2020 20:14:56 GMT -6
Imagine if your one of the few who’s range went up after time on a vent!
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Post by Ward on Jun 15, 2020 6:59:02 GMT -6
Great input here. You know, we all have a benefit that isn't available to everyone: We can sing, record it, listen back, analyze, try again, work on our tone and delivery and every vowel sound over and over again. Not have to depend on anyone else for refinement.
But yeah, working with a great singing teacher will deliver fantastic results.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 15, 2020 12:43:42 GMT -6
Imagine if your one of the few who’s range went up after time on a vent!
Today I talked with my vocal coach, and she thinks it may sound different because I also learn how to pronounce better North American English with a friend who is a native speaker. Longer O and R in the back of the throat... maybe she is right.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 15, 2020 12:46:39 GMT -6
Go get some training from a good singing teacher. Simple things like using the correct vowel sounds eg singing NART instead of NIGHT, will have a big impact.. .not changing your mouth shape during notes... breathing.... seriously that stuff will improve your singing way more than skulling whisky and smoking butts... Cheers Wiz
Like that one too. It got better with every day I practiced.... Maybe its also because I still sort out things with my EXW which stresses me a lot.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,937
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Post by ericn on Jun 15, 2020 12:48:47 GMT -6
Imagine if your one of the few who’s range went up after time on a vent!
Today I talked with my vocal coach, and she thinks it may sound different because I also learn how to pronounce better North American English with a friend who is a native speaker. Longer O and R in the back of the throat... maybe she is right.
Between vocal coaches and speech pathologist I am amazed at the things that effect the human voice, learning how to talk again with a hole in my throat was about as difficult as learning to walk again ( they were pretty sure that would never happen).
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 15, 2020 13:49:30 GMT -6
Today I talked with my vocal coach, and she thinks it may sound different because I also learn how to pronounce better North American English with a friend who is a native speaker. Longer O and R in the back of the throat... maybe she is right.
Between vocal coaches and speech pathologist I am amazed at the things that effect the human voice, learning how to talk again with a hole in my throat was about as difficult as learning to walk again ( they were pretty sure that would never happen).
Pretty amazing I found that the mussels which move my tongue get stiffer when I have stress hormones inside me. But I think it's also important to accept my limits and to work around them.
That is pretty much what I can hear with Tom Petty good that you mentioned him again. Accepting mistakes helps to I know this from the guitar.
Anyway its still pretty new for me to have control over the vocal cords. I had lessons when I was younger but the teacher said there would be no hope and I gave up. My new teacher things that the opposite is the case, special because I don't eant to be the best singer in the world. Having a good constant control would be to 100% fine for me.
I guess I can reach the goal at least I can hear that some songs start to sound pretty well. Other like the one I am working on now I have that dislike vocal thing.
I may PM you a sample....
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 15, 2020 15:32:20 GMT -6
In addition to the grit/tone thing, it could be about expressiveness vs technical perfection. Sometimes perfection is the enemy of emotion. Try singing drunk.
I would love to but I am an AA.
6th year sober....
Try cannabis edibles. Don't smoke it.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 15, 2020 17:30:38 GMT -6
Today I talked with my vocal coach, and she thinks it may sound different because I also learn how to pronounce better North American English with a friend who is a native speaker. Longer O and R in the back of the throat... maybe she is right.
Between vocal coaches and speech pathologist I am amazed at the things that effect the human voice, learning how to talk again with a hole in my throat was about as difficult as learning to walk again ( they were pretty sure that would never happen).
They told me when I was five that I would never walk. But I walk now for 40 years cool what humans can do if the train hard.
I am happy for your talking :-))
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Post by popmann on Jun 15, 2020 19:33:15 GMT -6
If high G is too nasal..."too much 1.5khz energy"...don't sing it. Change the key. Longer term you can talk about building your instrument MAYBE with a different blend that maybe you sing high G in a way you like better...how many high G's have you heard in pop or rock in the last 25 years? I digress...the simplest answer here is "doc, it hurts when I poke right here"...."stop doing that". You're writing a song...you're arranging it...why are there notes that you can't hit to your liking happening?
But, if you're feeling blue about it--do a cover...and go through the process of picking the RIGHT key to do the cover in...for your voice, your instrument as it exists TODAY. If you don't know how to do that--you have a bigger lesson to learn here. The number one job of a producer is to make sure everything is being cut in a key where the vocalist sounds good and/or is comfortable. The vocal is everything to a lot of people. Myself included. But, also--I think when self recordists have pysch issues with their own vocals, it's less about the actual vocal. It's the song. It's that the melody isn't very singable. Or it's much HARDER to sing than their instrument can handle (which is really the same thing grand scheme)...it's that the awkward fake drums in their arrangement don't feed the "flow" needed but they don't notice UNTIL the vocal can't lock in...that the lyrics don't have good open vowels where you need them...so, do a stripped down cover. See if your issues with your vocal are still there. Don't process it on the way in...that way you rule out electrically pooching it.
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Post by sirthought on Jun 15, 2020 22:37:36 GMT -6
I have coached some less confident singers trying to find their voice and technique. I don't think everyone has the gift of great singing, but I do believe anyone can find a style that works for them and can make others want to listen.
Regardless of which camp these people fell into, I often suggested singing along with Kate Bush and thinking about how she approaches her performance. No, I don't think everyone can sound like her, and really a lot of people don't enjoy her voice. But she really approaches things with power and exaggerating muscular technique that I don't think singers appreciate how it can win a listener's ear because it stands out.
Even deep throated dudes could sing over her songs in their register and have something with an energy that is compelling.
And if your personal style is more subdued, you'll still get a healthy workout trying to handle what she's doing. Powerhouse for sure.
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