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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 3, 2020 14:18:54 GMT -6
....which is.....paypal...... Did not know that, thanks. It is a different app though. I have heard that Venmo has a social media aspect to it also, which is kind of weird to me. I don't want people "watching" me spend money. You just have to turn that function off in the preferences of the app. Not a big deal.
I've been using Venmo for a few years now - all the babysitters use it.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 3, 2020 14:20:09 GMT -6
Yeah, that's the chatter I've heard too. 30 and below seem to be on Venmo. ....which is.....paypal...... That's a bit like saying Instagram is Facebook. Yes they're the same...but they're different.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 3, 2020 14:24:38 GMT -6
....which is.....paypal...... That's a bit like saying Instagram is Facebook. Yes they're the same...but they're different. I try to keep that in mind when people praise one and damn the other, that they are both owned by Zuckerberg.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 3, 2020 14:56:23 GMT -6
....which is.....paypal...... Did not know that, thanks. It is a different app though. I have heard that Venmo has a social media aspect to it also, which is kind of weird to me. I don't want people "watching" me spend money. Yeah, that's just bizarre. Seems like an experiment to see what data people will give out publicly.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 3, 2020 15:04:46 GMT -6
Did not know that, thanks. It is a different app though. I have heard that Venmo has a social media aspect to it also, which is kind of weird to me. I don't want people "watching" me spend money. Yeah, that's just bizarre. Seems like an experiment to see what data people will give out publicly. ...and the answer, apparently, is just about any data at all. Blows me away. But fortunately, you can disable that "feature."
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Post by notneeson on Jun 3, 2020 15:21:12 GMT -6
Yeah, that's just bizarre. Seems like an experiment to see what data people will give out publicly. ...and the answer, apparently, is just about any data at all. Blows me away. But fortunately, you can disable that "feature." I started to get some pretty spicy spam on Venmo, which is kind of hilarious considering, like you, I mostly use it to pay babysitters etc.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 3, 2020 16:46:56 GMT -6
$27.50 bought me infront of 3400 people. 500 of which did something. 12 went to the song. 10 clicked on my photo. No one bought the song. So obviously its unsustainable. Even though the song has cost me nothing to produce. Now I think audience targeting is probably the key. Getting the song infront of people who are willing to buy it. How is everyone managing this stuff. what sort of stats are you seeing against your investment? cheers Wiz I feel for you Wiz. I released an album in the fall. Made two videos. 400 views each of the video, tons of "you guys sound great" comments blah blah. We made around $100.00 mostly through friends and family via Bandcamp. As long as everything is free, independent musicians are not going to make money from recording imo. There's a reason very very few legacy bands record. They know even they won't make any money, and they have a huge audience. They'll make money touring. So, there will be a few artists/bands that make money through digital streaming, but they too will make most of their money touring. From here on in, I'm just going to record with friends as a hobby. Have a few drinks, enjoy the process of rehearsing and recording the songs, and be happy with making music.
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Post by drbill on Jun 3, 2020 17:09:04 GMT -6
I'm convinced there IS money to be made. Actually, LOTS of money. But doing things the "old" / "traditional" way is indeed dead. How to figure out what will work for the next 20? That's the tricky part. One thing is for sure. It will be different.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 3, 2020 17:13:22 GMT -6
I'm convinced there IS money to be made. Actually, LOTS of money. But doing things the "old" / "traditional" way is indeed dead. How to figure out what will work for the next 20? That's the tricky part. One thing is for sure. It will be different. Show me one profitable business model where the product is free and ubiquitous?
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Post by Guitar on Jun 3, 2020 17:14:10 GMT -6
I'm convinced there IS money to be made. Actually, LOTS of money. But doing things the "old" / "traditional" way is indeed dead. How to figure out what will work for the next 20? That's the tricky part. One thing is for sure. It will be different. Do you think this applies to independent or practically unknown artists releasing traditional 10 song albums once every few years on digital platforms? I think there are a few of us here that roughly meet that description.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 3, 2020 18:20:43 GMT -6
I'm convinced there IS money to be made. Actually, LOTS of money. But doing things the "old" / "traditional" way is indeed dead. How to figure out what will work for the next 20? That's the tricky part. One thing is for sure. It will be different. Show me one profitable business model where the product is free and ubiquitous? I don't mean this to sound snarky, but I have to challenge that...Music isn't free, its still being paid for. The model has changed, maybe for the worse, but large sums of money are spent on it still. Whether that be Spotify subscriptions or through advertising that is generating revenue for companies placing commercials on Pandora, Spotify etc. People may not being paying upfront for it, but its still generating revenue for someone... I agree its been devalued, to our detriment. The world has changed, the music biz has changed, culture has changed, tech has changed. But the power of music, and the ability of it to generate income hasn't died. To answer your question, social media is a product that is "free" and wide spread. Yet FB, IG, Twitter and the like generate huge sums of money. I don't like it anymore than you. But I recognize my need to change, and I'm rapidly working towards that, because I want to still do the things I love (music) and make music doing it.
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Post by drbill on Jun 3, 2020 18:30:11 GMT -6
I'm convinced there IS money to be made. Actually, LOTS of money. But doing things the "old" / "traditional" way is indeed dead. How to figure out what will work for the next 20? That's the tricky part. One thing is for sure. It will be different. Show me one profitable business model where the product is free and ubiquitous? Here's ONE for you : The majors are making over $1 MILLION PER HOUR off of Spotify alone. That's OVER 24M a day, over 168M per week, and over a BILLION in less than 2 months. Over 8 Billion + a year. That seems pretty profitable - and it's only one revenue stream out of many. Like I said, the old ways are dead. For the independent artist, performing musician, AND for the record companies. But money is still being made. Figuring out how to grab your piece is now the name of the game. Following old paths is not a profitable venture. Not that music HAS to be profitable. But if that's what you live off of, and your paradigm of how to make, release, promote is yielding nothing or next to nothing, then it's time to either hang it up -- OR BETTER YET -- change how you approach it. Best of luck figuring it all out. I by no means mean to say I've got it dialed in. I don't. But I DO know there is money being make hand over fist in the music business. Still.
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Post by drbill on Jun 3, 2020 18:39:23 GMT -6
I'm convinced there IS money to be made. Actually, LOTS of money. But doing things the "old" / "traditional" way is indeed dead. How to figure out what will work for the next 20? That's the tricky part. One thing is for sure. It will be different. Do you think this applies to independent or practically unknown artists releasing traditional 10 song albums once every few years on digital platforms? I think there are a few of us here that roughly meet that description. That's really quite hard for me to discern. I believe cream rises to the top. I believe talented, dedicated and relentless artists can find a way to make forward progress. It will take time, no doubt. But I believe there are still paths to success - at least success in a modest fashion. There is no doubt though that the "middle class" musicians are becoming virtually extinct. You're either a starving artist or JayZ / Taylor Swift / etc.. Those who CAN attain a middle class income, are without a doubt outside the box and forward minded thinkers in addition to being gifted artists.
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Post by drbill on Jun 3, 2020 18:40:42 GMT -6
Show me one profitable business model where the product is free and ubiquitous? I don't mean this to sound snarky, but I have to challenge that...Music isn't free, its still being paid for. The model has changed, maybe for the worse, but large sums of money are spent on it still. Whether that be Spotify subscriptions or through advertising that is generating revenue for companies placing commercials on Pandora, Spotify etc. People may not being paying upfront for it, but its still generating revenue for someone... I agree its been devalued, to our detriment. The world has changed, the music biz has changed, culture has changed, tech has changed. But the power of music, and the ability of it to generate income hasn't died. To answer your question, social media is a product that is "free" and wide spread. Yet FB, IG, Twitter and the like generate huge sums of money. I don't like it anymore than you. But I recognize my need to change, and I'm rapidly working towards that, because I want to still do the things I love (music) and make music doing it. BRAVO!!
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Post by lpedrum on Jun 3, 2020 18:47:08 GMT -6
I'm convinced there IS money to be made. Actually, LOTS of money. But doing things the "old" / "traditional" way is indeed dead. How to figure out what will work for the next 20? That's the tricky part. One thing is for sure. It will be different. I mostly agree with this. To expect people, even friends, to buy your download or CD is foolish. And if they're under thirty the certainly won't buy it--they don't buy any music. However, there is one "traditional" way of going about things and that's vinyl. It's a small market, but it's a market that loves the process of collecting and valuing the music. I have singer songwriter friends that are now releasing their music only two ways--streaming and vinyl. Of course the elephant in the room is that to have anyone pay attention to new music today it has to be amazingly great, not just good. It has to reach people in a way that they voluntarily want to share and champion it. I don't care if you have a "street team" of a thousand people. If the music doesn't generate real passion with the listener it's not going anywhere. I don't say that to be discouraging, but that's the bar we all have to reach as musicians and producers.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 3, 2020 18:54:39 GMT -6
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Post by lpedrum on Jun 3, 2020 19:00:51 GMT -6
There is no doubt though that the "middle class" musicians are becoming virtually extinct. You're either a starving artist or JayZ / Taylor Swift / etc.. Those who CAN attain a middle class income, are without a doubt outside the box and forward minded thinkers in addition to being gifted artists. Hmmm...maybe. It is tough out there for artists that don't desire to be pop stars but often have something deeper and more substantial to offer. When John Prine died I had to explain to quite a few friends who he was and why he mattered. But he had a very successful career in its own right, and his songs will sung as long as there are people singing. So your comment does trigger a concern I have - that influential, talented artists who don't fit the mainest of mainstream will not be able to generate the modest income needed to have a career. Let's hope solutions are found.
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Post by gwlee7 on Jun 3, 2020 19:42:05 GMT -6
....which is.....paypal...... Did not know that, thanks. It is a different app though. I have heard that Venmo has a social media aspect to it also, which is kind of weird to me. I don't want people "watching" me spend money. I am by far and away the old guy on my teaching team at school. They like using Venmo to collect money for birthdays etc. I just set all that shit to private and roll on.
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Post by wiz on Jun 3, 2020 22:26:30 GMT -6
I am giving this a shot... I have a "Sign up to my mailing list, get a free song dowload" on my website www.peterknightmusician.comI have put out the post on Facebook, and boosted the post to go to people who like my page already and their friends. Lets see how it performs Cheers Wiz
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Post by gwlee7 on Jun 4, 2020 7:46:19 GMT -6
wiz, I shared your page to my FB feed. A lot of my friends would be into your style. Let’s see if any respond.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 4, 2020 8:11:39 GMT -6
signed up for the mailing list
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 4, 2020 14:03:40 GMT -6
How do you guys pay online? For me it’s always a hassle, I want to drop a buck often but to do so I have to look up my insanely complicated passwords I’m always changing, switching PayPal ‘preferred method’, or entering in card numbers/addresses. This quarantine we’ve been saving money, it’s too annoying to buy everything online. Lastpass will save your butt for all those passwords for all the free plugins you download that require accounts now too! Would recommend. Plus it will generate passwords for you so much more secure. Im a big fan. Show me one profitable business model where the product is free and ubiquitous? I don't mean this to sound snarky, but I have to challenge that...Music isn't free, its still being paid for. The model has changed, maybe for the worse, but large sums of money are spent on it still. Whether that be Spotify subscriptions or through advertising that is generating revenue for companies placing commercials on Pandora, Spotify etc. People may not being paying upfront for it, but its still generating revenue for someone... I agree its been devalued, to our detriment. The world has changed, the music biz has changed, culture has changed, tech has changed. But the power of music, and the ability of it to generate income hasn't died. To answer your question, social media is a product that is "free" and wide spread. Yet FB, IG, Twitter and the like generate huge sums of money. I don't like it anymore than you. But I recognize my need to change, and I'm rapidly working towards that, because I want to still do the things I love (music) and make music doing it. Not only do FB/IG/Twitter ect make gobs of money, so do just people off of them. Look at how many people are making hundreds of grand to millions a year off of being "influencers" and YouTube personalities. It's very do able, just different and feels almost...dirty to do haha
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Post by EmRR on Jun 4, 2020 14:13:47 GMT -6
I am giving this a shot... I have a "Sign up to my mailing list, get a free song dowload" on my website www.peterknightmusician.comCheers Wiz Done, sounds good.
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Post by wiz on Jun 4, 2020 15:11:11 GMT -6
Thanks guys
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Post by chessparov on Jun 4, 2020 15:12:19 GMT -6
How do you guys like Bandcamp?
FWIW I just noticed/read an interesting current article, over at Pitchfork's website "This Is How Much More Money Artists Earn From Bandcamp". Thought it might be worth a read. Chris
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